Wolfgar Posted December 24, 2011 Report Share Posted December 24, 2011 Pretty much what the title says. What, in your opinion, is the hardest Master to learn, and what is the hardest Master to get a win with? Henchmen included, for this purpose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarragon Posted December 24, 2011 Report Share Posted December 24, 2011 I'd say Leveticus is probably the hardest to master. Hardest to win with? With me, every single master I take XD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrouchingMoose Posted December 24, 2011 Report Share Posted December 24, 2011 Hardest to win with? With me, every single master I take XD Wow...That sounds extremely familiar X_X Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omenbringer Posted December 24, 2011 Report Share Posted December 24, 2011 Would have to agree that Leveticus has one of the more difficult playstyles to really wrap your head around and Master. It is also pretty much universally agreed (on here anyway) that Marcus is one of the most difficult Masters to consistantly win with (Though I see him played very rarely in the local area, when I have seen him he was fairly competitive so am not completely convinced). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozz Posted December 24, 2011 Report Share Posted December 24, 2011 Im not convinced by Marcus being a "weak" master ether, only seen 2 players use him and both were able to do a fair bit (not seen ether player lose yet) But from watching my friend learning levi,. i have to agree he looks probably the hardest to learn:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ukrocky Posted December 24, 2011 Report Share Posted December 24, 2011 Marcus is rubbish... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ukrocky Posted December 24, 2011 Report Share Posted December 24, 2011 Marcus is rubbish... I'd say the hardest to win with is Molly at the moment, and I'll back people up when they say Levi is the hardest to master. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ciaran Posted December 24, 2011 Report Share Posted December 24, 2011 Marcus is rubbish... I disagree. I've seen him played amazingly well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ukrocky Posted December 24, 2011 Report Share Posted December 24, 2011 I disagree. I've seen him played amazingly well. I should point out I was being sarcastic. I've always said Marcus is hugely under appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ciaran Posted December 24, 2011 Report Share Posted December 24, 2011 I should point out I was being sarcastic. I've always said Marcus is hugely under appreciated. Oh. Yeah that would have helped. I have to add you back to my "not a jackass" list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ukrocky Posted December 24, 2011 Report Share Posted December 24, 2011 Oh. Yeah that would have helped. I have to add you back to my "not a jackass" list. Hahaha. This properly made me laugh. I've been using Marcus for the better part of 6 months and he's quality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
011121 Posted December 25, 2011 Report Share Posted December 25, 2011 (edited) Levi and Haemlin seem like they have the hardest playstyles to get down, maybe pandora as well. All three play weird, either counter intuitively (Kill me, I like it!) or using mechanics that you mostly don't see elsewhere (I make you insignificant so you can't fulfill strategies, or morale duels for fun and profit). as for weakest? Well all the henchmen seem a tad on the underpowered side to me (maybe not Von Schill and Collodi) but that may have more to do with the restricted troop selection than anything else. I've personally sucked with Ophelia every time I've tried her, but I've played against the dreamer mainly... Edited December 25, 2011 by 011121 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fritz the cat Posted December 25, 2011 Report Share Posted December 25, 2011 I've found it interesting...but rather frustrating to get wins with Molly. She doesnt really do anything herself, and her crew doesnt really even perform outstandingly with her good but not great support Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omenbringer Posted December 25, 2011 Report Share Posted December 25, 2011 as for weakest? Well all the henchmen seem a tad on the underpowered side to me (maybe not Von Schill and Collodi) but that may have more to do with the restricted troop selection than anything else. I've personally sucked with Ophelia every time I've tried her, but I've played against the dreamer mainly... Well that is probably why you think Ophelia is underpowered. Against most other crews she is like a more powerful version of the Ortegas (you'd be surprised at how much damage the little guys can generate) And VonSchill is definately not underpowered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfgar Posted December 25, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 25, 2011 Any master going up against the Dreamer seems to give people trouble. He's not unbeatable, but he is at the very least tricky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
011121 Posted December 25, 2011 Report Share Posted December 25, 2011 Well that is probably why you think Ophelia is underpowered. Against most other crews she is like a more powerful version of the Ortegas (you'd be surprised at how much damage the little guys can generate) And VonSchill is definately not underpowered. I'm willing to believe that that's the root of my problem with Ophelia which is why I mentioned it, although it seems like any force that can force terrifying checks (which is really anyone with the right build) will just eat her crew alive. Wp they suck at. Von Schill seems pretty tough, although the lack of troop choices again seems pretty limiting. Freikorps seem pretty hard but I can't believe they're capable of handling all eventualities Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratty Posted December 25, 2011 Report Share Posted December 25, 2011 Von Schill seems pretty tough, although the lack of troop choices again seems pretty limiting. Freikorps seem pretty hard but I can't believe they're capable of handling all eventualities Von Schill has access to all the mercenaries, except Sue who won't work for meanies like Von Schill. So you have Taylor and Johan if you need magical weapons, Jack Daw and Hamelin if you need control etc. He has the best toolbox of any of the Henchmen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omenbringer Posted December 25, 2011 Report Share Posted December 25, 2011 I'm willing to believe that that's the root of my problem with Ophelia which is why I mentioned it, although it seems like any force that can force terrifying checks (which is really anyone with the right build) will just eat her crew alive. Wp they suck at. Yep terrifying definately sucks to face with pretty much any gremlin crew (or any morale duels for that matter, at least until Avatar Some'r is in play). Von Schill seems pretty tough, although the lack of troop choices again seems pretty limiting. Freikorps seem pretty hard but I can't believe they're capable of handling all eventualities He is surprisingly handy with what he has got. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FancyZergling Posted December 25, 2011 Report Share Posted December 25, 2011 I find that Von is a great choice for a master at the 25 point level, he and his 'corpsmen are fantastic for their points, and anything they can't do he can take a merc that can help. He and everyone he takes is just worth their ss. For Hardest master I would have to say Levi, learning placement and how and when to kill off levi while positioning your waifs and setting yourself up for next turn is very difficult and requires a lot of for sight. Besides Levi I'd prolly go Hoffman, Kirai, Colette, Hamlin, Dreamer as difficult. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfgar Posted December 26, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 26, 2011 Leveticus seems to be winning the title here by popular opinion at least. Besides Levi I'd prolly go Hoffman, Kirai, Colette, Hamlin, Dreamer as difficult. What makes them difficult? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FancyZergling Posted December 26, 2011 Report Share Posted December 26, 2011 I say them simply because they have all of their playstyles and game manipulations, Hoffmans trucking around with his constructs, learning when and where to bounce around Colette and when you need to be converting resources as opposed to manipulating model placement, Kirai with takeing wounds summoning placement and Senshin management, Hamlin with his rat tricks and just nailing when to use them best, and Dreamer simply learning when and where to catapult. Levi and the book two masters are crews that I look at and would not really suggest to new players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
011121 Posted December 26, 2011 Report Share Posted December 26, 2011 What makes them difficult? the masters in that list all have kind of complicated mechanics of interaction with their crews. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbr_83 Posted December 26, 2011 Report Share Posted December 26, 2011 I only have Pandora and Collodi, but I have to say they have been very difficult to use. I've yet to win with Collodi, but I havent used him much. Having hemchmen with 2-3 wds sucks lol. Pandora is a double-edged sword. She rapes face when she works, but can easily be squished if something goes wrong. And if she isnt with her crew, then the damage output is very limited... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oshova Posted December 26, 2011 Report Share Posted December 26, 2011 I have to agree with the apparent difficulty to win with Kaeris and Molly. Their crews just look a little under-powered at the moment. But if the rumours about book 4 are true, and we get more Special Forces . . . Well that will definitely help those 2 out, and give Von Schill a more Freikorps based crew that is good. And Collodi and Lucius have a nice selection of good things anyway . . . but who doesn't want variety. Hardest to learn has to go to anyone with weird mechanics, not just Lady J-esque face mashing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kadeton Posted December 26, 2011 Report Share Posted December 26, 2011 I sort of feel the opposite way to the main thrust of what everyone has been saying. I personally think the least complicated Masters are the hardest to play. The more complicated masters take slightly more effort to learn all their tricks, sure. But once you've learned those tricks, you can do whatever the hell you want, easily. You feel like you have the necessary tools to complete whatever strategy the game throws at you. By contrast, the "simple" Masters - generally the straight-up face-smashy ones like the Viktorias or Lady Justice - are only simple to learn because they have basically no tricks. Sure, they're great at smashing face, but hardly any part of actually winning the game is about smashing face unless you happen to draw Slaughter. When you have a crew that can only do one thing, working out how to make them do everything else is the bit that actually makes them harder to master than the crews who can do everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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