VPs for painted armies.

[Dolomyte]

Suck.

Going to a tournie this weekend where you get an extra VP per round you use a fully painted crew. the stuff I am using is painted, however a certain roomate does not have his stuff painted. so I am now grinding his army out today.

I think painted should either be a requirement or not, and there should be a prize for best painted. VPs for using painted models can queer the results IMO.

Discuss.

[Lucidicide]

Agreed. That messes with game balance for no apparent reason.

Points in a tournament for painting an army I think is much more acceptable. Then you have awards for painting vs wins.

VPs seem like an odd choice.

[Xander]

Tournaments are designed to be closed systems. They are engineered for their own purposes. If the organizer is trying to cultivate a certain aesthetic, then I think they are within their rights to award VPs for painted armies. They are within their right to exclude non-painted models, if they wanted as well. It all depends on the motivations for favouring painted

models.

Now, if Wyrd had some sort of league and this tournament was a part of this league, then I would say that such an addition to the rules is not permissible. But without such a thing, any rules can be tweaked by any tournament organizer, as I see it.

That said, I often find such things as good motivators to get things painted. I hope your roommate is going to buy a few beers.

[Lucidicide]

Of course the TO is within their rights to do this. They can do whatever they want! It's their event. I think the point is more how people feel about it.

That said, there are plenty of motivations that can be provided for bringing painted models, and as you say, you could simply not allow unpainted models. Providing gameplay bonuses seems like a very odd choice.

[ukrocky]

Agreed, I've never liked soft scores being included in game.

[Dolomyte]

That said, I often find such things as good motivators to get things painted. I hope your roommate is going to buy a few beers.

Well, he paid for our trip to mardi gras, and I have not yet been able to pay him back, so I'm considering this goodwill on my intention that I will in eventuality have a job again and be able to pay him.

[Ebonstar]

I think incentives for using painted mini's in a tournament are good, but 1VP is over the top IMO. I would guess that the TO wants to encourage people to bring painted mini's while not excluding anyone who didn't paint (like, a brand new player for example), and give people an in-game incentive for it. But 1VP (in a typical 8VP system) is imbalancing.

That's a free un-announced scheme. Ouch.

I've heard stories about the beardiest of beards trying to "game" the painting rules (one comes to mind where a guy tried to get the tournament winner disqualified because he had one model without the basing painted), so it's just best to keep painting separate from the tournament game score, IMO.

[WEiRD sKeTCH]

Official Wyrd run events will not score Tournament Points, Victory Points or Differential Points based upon painting.

As per the Gaining Ground Document, all Crews played in Official Wyrd run events need to be fully painted. The actual scores won't be affected.

Local events can use whatever their local group agrees upon paint wise, or whatever rules their TO sets up.

[alienated one]

Our local event gives the following prize for a fully painted crew: 1 pat on the back.

Thanks Hookers!

[Ghiest1]

Hello,

I have seen this used to favor certain "home team" armies quite often, and it has be used rather horribly, for things such as decisons on ties, or to bump up a "home team" players score by paint scores being added. Should you play with unpainted minis? Sure if you want, however I also think if your going to show up at least show up with something painted, also for a new player to start out in a tourney is quite rough, so that really should not happen to often (horrible way to bracket a win for someone as well). You will also find that several game stores also have pictures they like to take of the winners as well. Chaos black and primer white armys just don't look as good in the promotional photos.

[Eyespy]

As per the Gaining Ground Document, all Crews played in Official Wyrd run events need to be fully painted.

I remember hearing this (I think it was an interview with Sketch actually) and really liking the idea. Wargaming in any form is very much a visual medium, and plain pewter models don't inspire anyone.

Seems like this particular TO is aware that there perhaps aren't enough players with fully painted crews and has come up with this rule to encourage painted crews, but not exclude those who haven't finished painting theirs, such as the OP's roommate.

The intention is clear though; Get your figures painted!

[nilus]

Yeah Soft scores suck. I make it a habit to only play with painted models in tournies but starting to score based on it just starts down a slipper slope where how well you have painted effects you score. Something I am strongly against.

Instead I find it easier to just run a painting contest as part of the tourney.

The official stance is nice but since the only official Malifaux Tournaments are at Gencon it doesn't really push through to local events.

I don't require it for local tournies. It hard enough to cultivate a game, there is no reason to start restricting people based on how much color there models have.

The only con I run events at(Adepticon...April 2012) require all models to painted for every event. So I go by there rules.

[TimeLapse]

As a player who paints his stuff and hates playing with unpainted models, in my own army. I do not think the free 1 vp is needed. I would love a paintimg prize to be given out but its one of those things that normaly end up going to the same 1 or 2 player each time because the are awesome painter so it turns into an auto get.

When we fisrt started playing down here I was that player because for a long time I was the only fully painted army.

This is what I would do to get all players wanting to paint,

I would have a painted army prize, (not brushes or paint since the painters already have those, a ten dollor gift certificate to go towards her/his next model to paint would be good) this prize will be given at random to a fully painted army that did not already win a prize alredy in the turnament.

Just my thought,

-Andrew Haught

[nilus]

This is what I would do to get all players wanting to paint,

I would have a painted army prize, (not brushes or paint since the painters already have those, a ten dollor gift certificate to go towards her/his next model to paint would be good) this prize will be given at random to a fully painted army that did not already win a prize alredy in the turnament.

t

Well one can never have to much paint and an extra brush can be helpful. But I agree, most of my tournament prizes are gift certifcates.

[Dark Alleycat]

I think that the bearing it should have on a game might be as a tie breaker if the VP ties.

And of course if anyone is concerned about their miniatures being painted for a tournament,I do painting to a great tabletop standard for very very affordable prices.

[ispep]

I absolutely hate any sort of painting requirements, and awarding bonus VP for painted crews is essentially that, a painting requirement.

I play games to play games. I paint models to paint models. Sometimes I play games with those models I painted. They are two separate hobbies that are loosely related.

You don't have to play a single game to win a Golden Demon, you shouldn't have to paint a single miniature to win a gaming tournament.

[Chucklemonkey]

I absolutely hate any sort of painting requirements, and awarding bonus VP for painted crews is essentially that, a painting requirement.

I play games to play games. I paint models to paint models. Sometimes I play games with those models I painted. They are two separate hobbies that are loosely related.

You don't have to play a single game to win a Golden Demon, you shouldn't have to paint a single miniature to win a gaming tournament.

I pretty much agree entirely.

I have recently been getting into WM/H and have actually played in a few tournaments, it seems like one of the best ways to learn fast, and I am glad there is no painting requirement from PP as I simply would not have been able to enter otherwise.

I can sort of see why Wyrd has the requirement given the origin of the company - and also the small scale of the game I suppose - but I still make you right Ispep.

If a company isn't going to lose money from the fact their miniatures are un-painted, then I fail to see why the players aren't free to choose.

[Clousseau]

Painting rewards should always be independant of tournament point scoring. However I always try and have some reward for best painted crew.

And I don't insist on painted models, with an exception if the tournament was taking place 'in public' i.e. in an open area at a show open to the public (where the genre is also being promoted).

[Clousseau]

I think that Wyrd's requirement is also related to the promotional side of things i.e. the game looks more attractive with painted figures.

[Ratty]

The thing is I consider it common courtesy to play with a painted army, I will generally try not to paint with unpainted models. So much of the hobby is to do with the background and imagery, otherwise why don't we play chess or Go or any of the 1000s of other tactical games. And I like my opponent to enjoy that side of my army as well as trouncing me. I also know I vastly enjoy playing against a nicely painted army.

Saying that people have real life concerns, It's hard to get time to paint when you have a full time job and kids. When I was working for the big evil company of doom, we didn't force people to play with fully painted armies on gaming evenings. All we generally asked was that there was some progress week to week. Even if that was basecoating a unit, or painting the skin colour.

I also know that a lot of the Big tournament PP and GW players I know use the tournament as the impetus to get their armies painted. You totally lose this if there is no reason to have a painted army.

However Malifaux is a slightly different game, far far less models.

So overall, I see both sides of the argument. I don't think there is a right answer, just better answer depending on who you are running the tournament for.

[Ozz]

Very political answer there Ratty, but cant really argue with anything you say there to much sense:)

But i personally, being not a person organising tournaments nor likely to be doing so, i think extra VP for a painted crew is a bad idea, i believe ether require a fully painted crew to partake, or don't and say you do to encourage the painting.

Edited October 8, 2011 by Ozz

[Eyespy]

You don't have to play a single game to win a Golden Demon, you shouldn't have to paint a single miniature to win a gaming tournament.

But you should perform well in all aspects of the hobby to win a hobby tournament.

[Serigala]

This is what I would do to get all players wanting to paint,

I would have a painted army prize, (not brushes or paint since the painters already have those, a ten dollor gift certificate to go towards her/his next model to paint would be good) this prize will be given at random to a fully painted army that did not already win a prize alredy in the turnament.

I like this idea.