Iamwyrd Posted June 26, 2011 Report Share Posted June 26, 2011 So here's my list, its a fun list I just want help making it better. Lilith 7ss cache Nekima 13ss BB Shaman 6ss x3 Tatter Tots 9ss x2 Desperate Mercs 4ss Its kinda like the grow up list$, but I would rather keep it straight forward and in your face. Any helpful thoughts or tweaks I could throw in. My main master is chompy so I'm trying to delve more into Lilith because of my new sweet avatar, thanks to the puppet master Mr. Eric J. I own every model to date so options are endless. Thanks ahead of time everybody. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AvatarForm Posted June 27, 2011 Report Share Posted June 27, 2011 Perhaps if you provided an explanation of the synergies you see or are hoping for? Eg. Do the desperate mercs provide more blood counters than others? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoreyMalifaux Posted June 27, 2011 Report Share Posted June 27, 2011 Maybe swap some things out and have a mature to make BBS portable? Every time I use BBS I find it can be difficult to keep him close enough to the action so he can soak up blood counters. That being said, I don't have Nekima yet. Can she carry BBS? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iamwyrd Posted June 27, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 27, 2011 (edited) No Nekima can't carry the bbs. And I bring the desperate mercs for blood counters cause they are cheap fodder. Edit: I'm trying to grow the tots quickly to young and matures. Just to have a field of huge models. I know its not always good, I just wanna be able to field my 3 mature nephilims. Edited June 27, 2011 by Iamwyrd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eldritch Posted June 27, 2011 Report Share Posted June 27, 2011 .Edit: I'm trying to grow the tots quickly to young and matures. Just to have a field of huge models. I know its not always good, I just wanna be able to field my 3 mature nephilims. Could be problematic, as Mature Nephilim are Rare 2. Also, Blood Sense from BBS and Nekima will not work together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karn987 Posted June 27, 2011 Report Share Posted June 27, 2011 While I'm normally one to give lots of advice on any Neverborn lists. I sadly can't offer you much advice on a grow/factory list except I really don't think you should use one if your looking to have fun with your opponents. This is all of course my opinion on the matter, but I simply would not use this style of list. You don't need to do this to win with Lilith and there are potentially more effective lists that don't scream of cheese. Seriously, there are many other lists you could build with her that speak of the true elegance of Neverborn and showcase the Nephilim's abilities to the fullest. So while I would be happy to help you build and refine a true Lilith crew, I sadly can not offer you anything on a Blood Factory except search the forums. There are other posts on it that will help you learn how to perform the factory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iamwyrd Posted June 27, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 27, 2011 That's my main goal is to move away from the grow list and make a normal list. So that could work if you want to help karn. Also I meant 2 matures didn't notice I hit 3 cause I do everything from ly phone. That's why some of ly sentences come out Wyrd. Lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iamwyrd Posted June 27, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 27, 2011 Everyone I play against doesn't like the grow list, I just like using the bbs and Nekima because they are nephilims and the only way I could figure they work is to grow the tots quickly, but I guess it is pretty cheesy. So I would rather have a normal Lilith list but still being able to use Nekima or the bbs, I just love them fluff wise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allidor Posted June 27, 2011 Report Share Posted June 27, 2011 Assuming you want a 35ss list, this is what I like to run: Lilith Primordial Magic 2ss 3x Terror Tots 9ss Black Blood Shaman 6ss 3x Young Nephilim 18ss Total: 35ss or Lilith Primordial Magic 2ss 2x Young Nephilim 12ss Black Blood Shaman 6ss Lelu 7ss Lillitu 7ss Total: 34ss Both are great lists that don't rely on growing. You could also take 3-4 Terror Tots instead of the 2 Young on the 2nd list, but I'm a huge fan of Young Nephilim, so I usually keep them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iamwyrd Posted June 27, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 27, 2011 Assuming you want a 35ss list, this is what I like to run: Lilith Primordial Magic 2ss 3x Terror Tots 9ss Black Blood Shaman 6ss 3x Young Nephilim 18ss Total: 35ss or Lilith Primordial Magic 2ss 2x Young Nephilim 12ss Black Blood Shaman 6ss Lelu 7ss Lillitu 7ss Total: 34ss Both are great lists that don't rely on growing. You could also take 3-4 Terror Tots instead of the 2 Young on the 2nd list, but I'm a huge fan of Young Nephilim, so I usually keep them. Cool thanks. So I take it unless you want a grow list there's no need for Nekima? Because I really like her, itsjust 13 ss is alot if you only have one use for her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iamwyrd Posted June 28, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 28, 2011 So I'm gonna play my 2nd time with Lilith tomorrow, does anyone have any last minute tips or list builds, this is what I think I'm gonna bring: Lilith 6ss cache BBS 6ss Young Neph 6ss Nekima 13ss Primordial Magic 2ss x2 Tatter Tots 6ss Any good looking? I think I'm gonna just instead of focusing on growing (hence no desperate mercs), I'm gonna go for the in your face and focus on ly strategies and schemes. Also quick question, can Lilith target herself with transposition or did they change that? If not where in the rules manual is a reference please? Thanks again everybody, just trying to get better with her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
micahwc Posted June 28, 2011 Report Share Posted June 28, 2011 While I'm normally one to give lots of advice on any Neverborn lists. I sadly can't offer you much advice on a grow/factory list except I really don't think you should use one if your looking to have fun with your opponents. This is all of course my opinion on the matter, but I simply would not use this style of list. You don't need to do this to win with Lilith and there are potentially more effective lists that don't scream of cheese. Seriously, there are many other lists you could build with her that speak of the true elegance of Neverborn and showcase the Nephilim's abilities to the fullest. So while I would be happy to help you build and refine a true Lilith crew, I sadly can not offer you anything on a Blood Factory except search the forums. There are other posts on it that will help you learn how to perform the factory. With respect, I honestly think if the makers of Malifaux didn't want us to spam grow lists they would not have made Nekima and the Desperate Mercenaries the way they did. There is no way this could have been an oversight by the designers of the game. I typically do not use grow lists, but I have used them at times. I have played games where my opponent had a fun time playing against a grow list. While I think doing a grow list every game would quickly get old, I think relying on any tactic over and over would do the same. Grow lists seem to be in line with the fluff that we have about the Neverborn. Every thing you read about terror tots mentions them growing into stronger and stronger nephilim when exposed to the blood of their enemies. Is a grow list any cheesier than a Resurectionist master raising minions over and over? Is it cheesy to kill a K9 remain or a zombie chihuahua and make a flesh construct or a rogue necromancy? Somer getting more gremlins, Ramos gaining arachnids, Hamelin, Leveticus, etc. While a grow list is Neverborn specific the idea of gaining more points worth of models is a mechanic widely used in this game. This mechanic (or a variation there of) is available to four out of five factions in the game. The only people left out (for now) are Guild. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
micahwc Posted June 28, 2011 Report Share Posted June 28, 2011 (edited) Lilith can no longer target herself with transposition. However, her totem can. I do not know the reference off the top of my head, I think it has to do with targeting restrictions and the way things were defined in the rule manual. Also, beware that when using Nekima your opponent will almost always choose "Kill protoge" as a scheme. So far I have played with Nekima 5 times, and "kill protoge" has been chosen 5 times. Nekima has survived one game. If they put enough effort into her she will die, espessially with the changes to alluring. Edited June 28, 2011 by micahwc Stuff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgbsamurai Posted June 28, 2011 Report Share Posted June 28, 2011 Since Transposition has a rst it is considered an attack spell (p. 50 RM). Unless it states that it affects friendly models a model can not attack itself (p.18 RM). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allidor Posted June 29, 2011 Report Share Posted June 29, 2011 Grow lists seem to be in line with the fluff that we have about the Neverborn. Every thing you read about terror tots mentions them growing into stronger and stronger nephilim when exposed to the blood of their enemies. While a grow list is Neverborn specific the idea of gaining more points worth of models is a mechanic widely used in this game. I would disagree with you here. The fluff we read on the Nephilim has them killing enemies and growing from their blood, not turning on each other (or in the case of a DM, an ally) to grow. It's very much fluff appropriate for a Resurrectionist such as McMourning to chop up his own creations to make something better out of them. While you are right that gaining more points worth of models is a mechanic used throughout the game, grow/mature is the Nephilim's version of that mechanic. A growth list is (in my opinion) just a way of abusing it. If you look at Nekima's abilities, she has a lot more to offer other Nephilim than just easy growth (giving a :masks to Cb to all Nephilim within 6"= autoflay for Young and Terror Tots). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdrianMills Posted June 29, 2011 Report Share Posted June 29, 2011 This is my lilith list Lilith, Mother of Monsters -- 4 Cache Primordial Magic [2ss] Lelu [7ss] Lilitu [7ss] Nekima, The Dark Sibling [13ss] Terror Tot Nephilim [3ss] Terror Tot Nephilim [3ss] I can get an automatic trigger on the lure on the lilitu. possible 3 walk actions from sprint for objective taking (Until they grow) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karn987 Posted June 29, 2011 Report Share Posted June 29, 2011 This is my lilith list Lilith, Mother of Monsters -- 4 Cache Primordial Magic [2ss] Lelu [7ss] Lilitu [7ss] Nekima, The Dark Sibling [13ss] Terror Tot Nephilim [3ss] Terror Tot Nephilim [3ss] I can get an automatic trigger on the lure on the lilitu. possible 3 walk actions from sprint for objective taking (Until they grow) Yup this is a very strong objective based list. Nekima opens up a world of possabilities for you and can even act in an emergency to quickly gather blood for your Tots. In fact you may want to open up the game with her wounding herself for a Blood Counter then keep Lilitu nearby to heal it up. The reason for this is you now have a Blood Counter that you can use to Grow a Tot once their speed has been utalized to it's fullest. You just have to catch back up to them, but that shouldn't be all that hard. Otherwise yup, that is a very solid list. Just watch out for crazy fast blitzing lists (like an aggressive Colette rarish as it is) as they can get in and kill your tots before you can make good use of them. But Lelu and Nekima can pretty much tear open anything they go against, Auto Flays on Lelu's claws *drools* @Micahwc: Things slip through the cracks all the time man, especially in a game as complex as Malifaux Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karn987 Posted June 29, 2011 Report Share Posted June 29, 2011 So I'm gonna play my 2nd time with Lilith tomorrow, does anyone have any last minute tips or list builds, this is what I think I'm gonna bring: Lilith 6ss cache BBS 6ss Young Neph 6ss Nekima 13ss Primordial Magic 2ss x2 Tatter Tots 6ss Any good looking? I think I'm gonna just instead of focusing on growing (hence no desperate mercs), I'm gonna go for the in your face and focus on ly strategies and schemes. Also quick question, can Lilith target herself with transposition or did they change that? If not where in the rules manual is a reference please? Thanks again everybody, just trying to get better with her. Sadly since the RM, Lilith can no longer Transposition herself. You have to have her totem target her and another model to do it It's not a bad list, I kinda feel that Nekima and a BB Shaman is a bit over kill from the support side of things. I think you MAY do better with another Young instead of the BB. Or maybe a Waldgeist if there are a decent number of forests on the board. This is one I've been running recently to good success: Lilith Lelu -7ss Lility -7ss Terror Tot x2 -6ss Black Blood -6ss 26ss Then you get to mix it up a bit: Young -6ss Totem -2ss Total: 34ss OR Lelu -7ss Total: 33ss OR Waldgeist -6ss Totem -2ss Total: 34ss So variety based on what you need. Waldgeist is great if you have a lot of woods on the board. The Young is good if you want more of the classics and favor more on trying ot gather blood and pumping up your army. And Lelu is just all and all deadlier, adding a lot more power to the list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peoples Champ Posted July 4, 2011 Report Share Posted July 4, 2011 Played a lilith grow list yesterday with nekima in. Yikes pretty horrible. I had Nico and got basically wiped out by turn 3. Tell me when a young neph grows and gets replaced does the new model get its full AP when activating that same turn. it happenned alot in the game and I was getting out activated all over the place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iamwyrd Posted July 4, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 4, 2011 Played a lilith grow list yesterday with nekima in. Yikes pretty horrible. I had Nico and got basically wiped out by turn 3. Tell me when a young neph grows and gets replaced does the new model get its full AP when activating that same turn. it happenned alot in the game and I was getting out activated all over the place. The replaced model (so young to mature) only gets the remaining AP from the original model. Ex. The tot uses a (1) action to grow, passes and is replaced with the young neph. The young neph now has 1 general AP and his melee expert only and finishes activating right after being replaced if it the active model. If someone obeys you to grow then it would have full AP if it didn't already activate. But I don't k ow if you can obey a tot or young to mature. Will have to look into it. Hope that answers your question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nu Fenix Posted July 4, 2011 Report Share Posted July 4, 2011 But I don't k ow if you can obey a tot or young to mature. You wouldn't be able to use Obey to make a tot mature, as you aren't allowed to make a model sacrifice or kill itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HopelessHeretic Posted July 4, 2011 Report Share Posted July 4, 2011 I actually think you can obey them to grow since it ia a replace not a sacrifice. -Heretic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sephiroa Posted July 4, 2011 Report Share Posted July 4, 2011 Cool thanks. So I take it unless you want a grow list there's no need for Nekima? Because I really like her, itsjust 13 ss is alot if you only have one use for her. no, nekima can buff everything, but mainly she is a good buffer for growing, use npehlim heart to give :masks on cb = auto flay, and nekima gives every neph regeneration 1. and she is one hell of a strong monster, 3 more ss but she is stronger, faster, harder than the mature. in 35ss list, my girlfirend would go lilith nekima 2 tots 1young teddy (she just loves teddy, i would take some youngs) 34ss 5cache, most of the time she uses blood from stone to transform 1 tot into a young, and yess, the list you gave,, nobody likes it,, in turn one you can create 2 matures and 1 young out off 2 desp merc's and nekima's ability, don't forget the healing flips to heal nekima and the healing spell from bb shaman to swap the corpse counter for a blood counter, (autotrigger because of neph heart) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adran Posted July 4, 2011 Report Share Posted July 4, 2011 Unless you are going for the forced growing list you don't need both BBS and nekima in low to mid point games. which one you take depends on cost and role. BBS is cheaper but slower. Has some nice things to do with corpses (or blood counters), so very useful if you are facing resserectionists. Nekima is faster, and more obvious with her bonus' but other than her passive buffs she just hits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truefaith Posted July 4, 2011 Report Share Posted July 4, 2011 35 SS Lilith Primordial Magic 2ss Nekima 13ss Lilitu 7ss Terror Tot 3ss Terror Tot 3ss Terror Tot 3ss Desperate Merc 2ss 2ss Leftover and Liliths Cache This list has a ton of options. 3 Young's T1, 1 Mature T1, Crazy Sprinting Tots that could be grown T2. You could grow one and summon Lelu, or you could ignore Lelu and have a regen1 Lilitu running next to Nekima. Still a grow list, and still cheesy. But maybe not as flamboyantly cheesy as the factory list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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