Raspy in Competitive Play

[edonil]

So, reading through the thread on Hamelin in the Outcast section, and saw someone saying that Rasputina in a tournament is like giving their opponent a bye. While locally we won't be doing tournaments, there's another club not too far off that does, and I really like Raspy (fluff is awesome, love the model, and have really enjoyed playing her). Is this what other people have found? Does Rasputina struggle in a competitive environment that much? And, as a second question, how much do you think Snow Storm is going to help with that?

[LoboStele]

Eh, she has a lot of trouble with scenarios that require a lot of movement. But if you're going by the Standard Strategies list in the Gaining Ground document, like 3 (or maybe 4) out of the 6 possibilities usually end up entailing an awful lot of killing stuff. Raspy does wonderfully at either Slaughter or Contain Power, IMO. Claim Jump, especially if it's Shared, also ends up being decent for Raspy, as she just kills the opponent's pieces as they try to get near the marker. Reconnoiter, especially Shared, also usually devolves into killing the opponents pieces.

So, yeah, Raspy has a lot of trouble moving quickly, but that's not to say that she can't move at all. Raspy and her Silent Ones can still move 6" per turn AND cast a spell. So it's not too difficult to get them at or near the centerline of the board. Gamin and other things can move even faster. Sure, Snowstorm will help some overall, and I think I would certainly play SS instead of the Ice Golem in tournament play. Snowstorm is exceptionally good for Claim Jump, IMO, since he can sort of sit on the CJ marker and help protect your whole crew with the obscuring effect he produces.

Overall, I wouldn't go into a Tournament with ONLY Rasputina. I would want to be able to probably choose between Raspy and at least one other Arcanist Master, probably Colette. That way, if I got Treasure Hunt or Destroy the Evidence, I could run Colette with her high movement instead.

[Necromorph]

I've seen Raspy do some nasty stuff, and I think Snow Storm will help her a bit, but I don't see her being incredibly competitive for the reasons Lobo stated.

However, she isn't alone. There are many masters/henchmen out there who are just simply not that competitive.

[Buhallin]

Rasputina isn't fast, but she can project like few other masters out there. Assuming an 8" deployment, you can be throwing Ice Pillars up to cover any central objectives (like Treasures) on the first turn.

If she suffers from anything, it's the tendency to use Warhammer-style terrain rather than something appropriate for Malifaux. When you've got a hill and 1-2 small patches of forest, her secondary strength - board control - goes right out the window. With real terrain that gives the opportunity to meaningfully deploy pillars, or trap opponents in area terrain, she steps up nicely.

She's not the strongest master out there, but she's hardly a free win for your opponent.

[Rathnard]

LIES!

The concept of a "non-competitive Master" is a myth. Some might have more or less trouble in certain situations, others take alot of practice to use well, but I've never been convinced that any one Master is "non-competitive".

Raspy is slow, but her damage output is scary and she gives your opponent that dilema of not wanting to get close to her (exploding Gamlin) but not wanting to stay at range either (Ice magic) She has trouble with strategies involving high mobility (eg. Line in the Sand, Destroy evidence), but if you want to avoid dealing with that, you can spend a SS to reflip the strategy.

In Gaining Ground events, Raspy will only have particular trouble with Destroy Evidence, Reconnoiter and Treasure Hunt. The former can be done with smart placement of the objectives and powering up the centre, while the Reconnoiter, as Lobostele said, can come down to killing models - something Raspy is very decent at. It shouldn't be hard to get at least 2VP for Treasure Hunt, but the 4VP isn't out of reach if you use the SS to pull your crew up early and a fast/nimble/cheap minion to grab the counter off a crew member and pull back to your deployment (under cover of the rest of your crew of course). In all cases, Raspy does still have access to some fast models she could use to help acheive these obectives (Sabretooth, Cassandra and Corphee come to mind).

[karn987]

LIES!

The concept of a "non-competitive Master" is a myth. Some might have more or less trouble in certain situations, others take alot of practice to use well, but I've never been convinced that any one Master is "non-competitive".

Raspy is slow, but her damage output is scary and she gives your opponent that dilema of not wanting to get close to her (exploding Gamlin) but not wanting to stay at range either (Ice magic) She has trouble with strategies involving high mobility (eg. Line in the Sand, Destroy evidence), but if you want to avoid dealing with that, you can spend a SS to reflip the strategy.

In Gaining Ground events, Raspy will only have particular trouble with Destroy Evidence, Reconnoiter and Treasure Hunt. The former can be done with smart placement of the objectives and powering up the centre, while the Reconnoiter, as Lobostele said, can come down to killing models - something Raspy is very decent at. It shouldn't be hard to get at least 2VP for Treasure Hunt, but the 4VP isn't out of reach if you use the SS to pull your crew up early and a fast/nimble/cheap minion to grab the counter off a crew member and pull back to your deployment (under cover of the rest of your crew of course). In all cases, Raspy does still have access to some fast models she could use to help acheive these obectives (Sabretooth, Cassandra and Corphee come to mind).

I agree completely with Rathnard on this. We've recently just had a surge in Raspy popularity with the advent of the Snow Storm and she is not nearly as slow as she seems. Through a few tricks she can hurl Ice Golems to mid field on the first turn, and that is really hard to deal with considering how hard they hit!

If you really need quick little minions for things like Destroy the Evidence and Treasure Hunt, dip into the other Arcanist minions. You've got plenty of minions that will do fantastic for you, you just have to be willing to take something that isn't ice based. Raspy herself is extremely dangerous and I think has the most powerful Blast attack in the game never mind her spell that constantly repeats it's self.

So yes, Raspy is in fact Competitive and I believe every Master is truly competitive if you take the time to understand them and build your crew to your objectives.

[Couchmonster]

I play Raspy quite exclusively & rarely lose with her. She an awesome master & the inclusion of a single Silent One makes her brutal! If you get a mission where her speed may be an issue do what she does best & nuke your opponent off the board, the mission doesn't matter if you wipe them out.

I usually use this at 35ss;

Rasputina

Essence of Power

Jack Daw

Silent One

Gamin

Ice Golem (or 2 Gamin depending on the mood)

Taking the golem leaves you with 7ss (nice!) to fuel Raspy's nuke. Used this list Wednesday evening against a Resser crew & we got shared recconoiter. Using Raspy I know she's not quick enough to pull that off but I've got schemes to earn vp's on so focus on those & wiping the opponent out.

Raspy is far from non-competitive!

[Rhaksha]

I totally agree with Couchmonster; there is no strategy or scheme that cannot be gained by more Curse spamming.

[magicpockets]

I made the post the OP is referring to and I guess it's a combination of having never seen anyone use Rasputina very well at all and also having master which counter her quite well. For example, my main master when I started was Zoraida and she's very good against Rasputina's crew, then Pandora who's good against everyone, then Hamelin...well

She's definitely one of the more fun/balanced masters in the game, but I really doubt anyone who was at a high level with the book 2 masters would choose her for competitive play. Just my opinion I know, but I think it's a reasonable shout?

[dakrulz55]

I play Raspy quite exclusively & rarely lose with her. She an awesome master & the inclusion of a single Silent One makes her brutal! If you get a mission where her speed may be an issue do what she does best & nuke your opponent off the board, the mission doesn't matter if you wipe them out.

I usually use this at 35ss;

Rasputina

Essence of Power

Jack Daw

Silent One

Gamin

Ice Golem (or 2 Gamin depending on the mood)

Taking the golem leaves you with 7ss (nice!) to fuel Raspy's nuke. Used this list Wednesday evening against a Resser crew & we got shared recconoiter. Using Raspy I know she's not quick enough to pull that off but I've got schemes to earn vp's on so focus on those & wiping the opponent out.

Raspy is far from non-competitive!

well im pretty sure even if you wipe your opp you can still lose in tourny play if you still dont complete your objective. also why the jack daw? repeat on arcane resivior is silly and shouldnt be done to often as the models with it are pricy (vomit worm aside...... i hate that model/stats). plus the movement on the ice golem is so horrid he spends the first 2 if not 3 getting into range.

why not try a cerberus or a duet, the mobility on those 2 makes it so you can complete the objectives alot easier and let you harass super ranged stuff like nino and other rg'd combat stuff trouble till raspy shows up to ruin the party

Edited June 20, 2011 by dakrulz55

[Couchmonster]

well im pretty sure even if you wipe your opp you can still lose in tourny play if you still dont complete your objective. also why the jack daw? repeat on arcane resivior is silly and shouldnt be done to often as the models with it are pricy (vomit worm aside...... i hate that model/stats). plus the movement on the ice golem is so horrid he spends the first 2 if not 3 getting into range.

why not try a cerberus or a duet, the mobility on those 2 makes it so you can complete the objectives alot easier and let you harass super ranged stuff like nino and other rg'd combat stuff trouble till raspy shows up to ruin the party

I can't say I've ever played any wargame where you can still win if you've been cleaned off the table & am pretty certain that's not the case here.

On Jack Daw, why not. Doubling up on arcane resovoir is has two benefits here. 1) More cards in hand for Raspy to cheat with. 2) More cards to keep Jack alive. The 2ns point here is extremely valuable as Jack flies foward top speed & then uses doomed to stop cheating within his range. Get him close to the enemy & have the silent one move up & cast northwind. Rasp moves into arc range & flings the curse @ Jack, his low defence is brilliant here & as you're far away you can still cheat up to fling out the blasts. Then discard to keep Jack Alive, rinse & repeat. Alternatively if you can't get Jack that close get them in range for doomed so they can't cheat then cast at them while you can.

On the Golem speed doesn't matter as the aim is to nuke the middle of the board. But he's also there as as he looks cool, can dish out bite of winter & packs quite a wallop.

I'm not really concerned about ranged enemies as I've got quite good at screening Raspy with terrain, ice pillars & other models (one being the Golem).

[magicpockets]

On Jack Daw, why not. Doubling up on arcane resovoir is has two benefits here. 1) More cards in hand for Raspy to cheat with. 2) More cards to keep Jack alive.

Remember Arcane Reservoir doesn't stack so you only get the benefit once - I think that's why he's saying not to take it twice.

[LoboStele]

I can't say I've ever played any wargame where you can still win if you've been cleaned off the table & am pretty certain that's not the case here.

Not only is it possible in Malifaux, I've seen it happen, on more than one occasion. Complete your strategies and Schemes, but then lose your last piece in Turn 6 while it's trying to keep the opponent from getting their last VP or two. Most of those games end up 8-6, but it CAN happen.

[Couchmonster]

Even without Arcane Resevoir stacking Jack Daw is an extremely versatile piece to have at your disposal. Also having him finish someone off gives you extra vp if Jack's alive at the end of the game.

These points aside I still say Raspy is far from non-competitive.

[magicpockets]

Even without Arcane Resevoir stacking Jack Daw is an extremely versatile piece to have at your disposal.

Agree 100%

These points aside I still say Raspy is far from non-competitive.

Disagree 100%

[CannonFodder]

Compared to other master, Raspy is low on the scale of effectiveness. It really depend on Strategy/ terrain. I find for most strategies I tend to select other casters. She more about denying your opponent their objective, less about taking hers.

If your group goes for a shoot first and ask questions later group, then she is excellent. Bat caster like Colette with a player who is all about denying your opponent a shot, then you have an issue.

[hewasneverborn]

I picked up her crew on a whim. I knew that she wasn't considered very good in general, but that only made my interest greater. I plan to try to do well with her, only using her as a master.

Not great results straight away - had a narrow loss versus Hoffman in my first game. I shall not be forgetting his dampening field again, I tell thee. Running a bunch of shatter troops up to him didn't prove all that useful in the end...

[Rhaksha]

I'm doing the same thing hewasneverborn. Raspy is my first and only Master and I'm trying to get good with her before moving on to pastures new. It's a difficult path, you get squished quite often initially, but that makes the wins so much more sweet.

Your collegue under December

Rhaksha