When is a model painted enough to be played with?

[sjostrand]

On some other forums, people are discussing if games should be played with painted or unpainted models.

But that’s not the question I’m interested in, because I already know the arguments of both sides.

The question I’m asking is: When is a model painted enough to be played with?

More background to the question: One argument for painted models is: I want the battle to look good. And the main argument against requirements for painted models is: I don’t have time/skills to paint, am I not allowed to play then?

I agree with both sides, and therefore I want to find a middle ground that can be agreed upon by most players.

That a model is painted is not a guarantee that it looks good. The skills are very different, and it’s also a matter of taste. What I think is that you want the impression that the armies/crews is painted. When someone put an unpainted model on the table it ruins the illusion of the cool battlefield. But if you have painted the armour, weapon and skin of the model (and maybe some easy dry brushing) and you look at the table you get the feeling of the 20 winter guards running forward on the battlefield.

Off course, a master class completed army is much nicer to look at, but this way hopefully nobody gets angry for playing against a completely unpainted army. And everyone is able to paint the basics with a small amount of both time and money.

And the best thing is that you can continue painting your models until they are finished. But I guess that’s only work when you paint “one colour on ten models at the same time”…

Rule-wise this is the “three colour rule” that many people don’t like because of the abusive behaviour of the gamers that just put two dots of colour on the shoulder pads… But that kind of abusive behaviour will always be used by a small amount of gamers no matter what the rules you use.

If you want you opponent to field an all painted army: What is the least amount of painted army you would see on the table?

If you like to play with your unpainted army: What is the most amount of effort you feel you want to make to satisfy your opponent?

As a start I include a picture of some of my models. Everyone except Butcher (the large man with the axe) are completely painted (according to my standard). Butcher is painted with three colours I I wouldn’t really be ashamed to use him in a battle. Well, maybe a little...

[Breten]

I play with unpainted minis. I play everything so I don't have time to paint it all. Yes, everything. Look in my garage:

On that note. The only thng I like to see from an opponent is a little progress now and then in casual games.

We're doing a Warhammer 40K Escalation league right now where every 2 weeks you add 250 points, and every 2nd week, you have to have that 250 points painted for painting scores. In that I expect to see more.

Against my only regular Malifaux opponent, I don't expect to see too much progress too often. We play once a month on average, though he and I lpay games a couple times a week together.

[ispep]

To me painted miniatures don't matter. Sure they look nice, and sometimes I enjoy painting them, but when I play a game, I play it for the game mechanics, not the aesthetic appeal of the table. Give me a game with a good rules system and different sized rocks for models and I'll be content.

[Brushmistress]

To me painted miniatures don't matter. Sure they look nice, and sometimes I enjoy painting them, but when I play a game, I play it for the game mechanics, not the aesthetic appeal of the table. Give me a game with a good rules system and different sized rocks for models and I'll be content.

While I understand the sentiment, a game just isn't the same if the models aren't painted. Asthetics are very important to me - nice terrain, painted models - it helps to immerse you into the atmosphere of the game system. I'm all about the atmosphere.

To answer the question "When is a model painted?", I'd go with the ancient GW standard of 3 colors and basing. Doesn't have to be sexy up close, just more than a primed piece of metal.

[ork56]

I would always like to see a basecoat for all areas (which is a considered choice of appropriate colour) and some work on the base.

Glueing flock is the equivalent of a 5 year old gluing glitter to a Xmas card, so should be achievable by all of us.

looking at your pic, all I would say is, would you consider painting more of the armour on the hound? - the light coloured areas look like they are still primer? the bases look OK and your Sorscha+Zerkova are fine too. Not sure if Irusk would approve of a white hat though? unless its a winter themed colourscheme.

[Breten]

While I understand the sentiment, a game just isn't the same if the models aren't painted. Asthetics are very important to me - nice terrain, painted models - it helps to immerse you into the atmosphere of the game system. I'm all about the atmosphere.

To answer the question "When is a model painted?", I'd go with the ancient GW standard of 3 colors and basing. Doesn't have to be sexy up close, just more than a primed piece of metal.

How is a game not the same with unpainted models? Seriously. Same rules, same everything.

Some models have colour and some don't. That's the only difference between playing painted or unpainted. Having painted models won't make the game any different than if you don't.

I agree it looks better certainly, and it may help to "immerse" one in the atmosphere that's fine, but I always hated the "game's different" if it's not painted attitude.

Of course, if you constantly show up with unpainted models every week, I'll still play you. And if you have one or two painted models, I'll make sure they die early, because they usually seem to.

[Brushmistress]

How is a game not the same with unpainted models? Seriously. Same rules, same everything...

I agree it looks better certainly, and it may help to "immerse" one in the atmosphere that's fine, but I always hated the "game's different" if it's not painted attitude.

I never said the game was "different" from a mechanics viewpoint, was simply voicing an opinion re: the asthetics. No need to get in a tizzy. I'm a painter, enjoy doing it, hate seeing models that aren't given some love is all. Some folks don't like that aspect, or simply don't have the time - I understand that. I also understand that someone took the time to make a world for me to game in with unique characters and personas, and I like to have that evoked on my gaming table.

[WEiRD sKeTCH]

Brushmistress didn't say that the game itself was different. The game experience, however can be.

Which reminds me... I have some stuff to paint!

[Brushmistress]

Brushmistress didn't say that the game itself was different. The game experience, however can be.

Muchas Gracias for the excellent paraphrase...my thoughts exactly. :dance:

[nilus]

Which reminds me... I have some stuff to paint!

You gotta stop giving away what you do have painted as prizes for Tourneys.

Personally I play either with bare or primed models, or finished ones. I don't like to play with models if they are half painted. Mostly because they is no clear coat so I am liable to screw them up before they are done.

[Breten]

Sorry, I wasn't in a tizzy, though reading my own post it comes across a little harsh.

I'm a painter first, or at least was until recently. As my eyesight has started failing (legally blind in one eye now), I've become more of a gamer. Compensating I guess.

We have a few guys locally who refuse to play with people with unpainted models for various reasons, so I suppose I get uppity when the discussion comes up, because I think it's ridiculous to exclude people.

Obviously that;s not what we're talking about or anyone is saying that they wouldn't play with anyone.

[The Butcher]

If a player is new to the game then there is some understanding of why they dont have a painted army. As time goes on the army should show some progress, maybe a base coat after a month, then off to one color here, and one color there, after about a year they should at least have all the colors in the right spaces if they play with those models on a regular basis. No one is expecting everything to turn out studio quality but at least have sense of progress. Just get the colors in the right places.

[Hapless Peon]

For the event I am running I have specified that a model has to be painted with at least 3 colours and be based. Any model that does not meet this standard counts as insignificant (and cannot be made significant by any means) and will be counted as a casualty at the end of the game.

I don't think this is an unfair penalty as a crew doesn't have more than a dozen or so miniatures. You can still use these miniatures but you will be at a disadvantage to do so.

This is because I want to use the event to showcase Malifaux to a larger audience and having nice looking models on great terrain looks more appealing than undercoated or bare metal.

In friendlies I don't mind so much but I prefer to have all of mine painted. It helps that I enjoy painting.

[The Butcher]

That gives me a good idea. I think I'll have a painting/Demo event the week before any tournaments.

[Sturm88]

Painted models are nice obviously. However, to make it a requirement to play a game is nothing short of being an elitest. If someone wants to play and all they want to do is assemble and maybe primer up the models, then so be it. Include an extra prize or whatever for someone with a fully painted force or best painted. But dont look down on someone just because they do not want to/have time/or are no good at painting. Like I said, 100% nothing short of bieng a snobbish elitest.

Personally, I paint what I can but life does get in the way. I generally can only set aside 2-3 hours a week for painting and that is not even for one sitting. I paint slow and very meticulous. Hence, I rarely ever can field an entirely painted force. No one has ever questioned me or held it against me, nor would they. Why? I dont allow people who would anywhere near my life and I would not recommend it to anyone.

For as little attention most games get in the gaming community, why choose something so trivial and meaningless as another tool to yet hold against a sect of people who are already generally ridiculed in other aspects of thier life.

Dont be a jerk, let metal of all colors on the table.

[Pipeline]

i play with unpainted models and its rather embarrassing. but working full time and taking 2 classes in school, i just dont have the time to paint something i'm willing to put on the table

is it May yet??

[The Strange Dude]

I hold myself to a much higher standard than anyone else up until recently I would not play with an incomplete or unpainted model (and even now I use 3 proxies in an army of 100+ models). That being said I don't hold my opponents to any such standard and although it is nice to play against a fully painted army I'm quite happy to play against the grey/silver horde because at the end of the day the models don't make the game it's the person your playing with.

[ork56]

its all just a matter of personal pov

is a story better as a book, with your own imagination filling in the details

or as a black and white film, so you see the acting/action, but still need to fill bits in

or is Avatar where everyone should be looking?

my view is that if you think option #1 is right, then why play with minis at all?

as for the last option, well Avatar cost a horrendous amount of money and time to produce and is unrealistic to expect all future films to be the same

so I guess that leaves us with the middle one, where someone has done the start job of defining the characters and it is up to us to colour them in, if we like.

personally, while some films are good in B&W, I think I prefer colour.

[The Butcher]

Do you think people who are involved in a regular gaming group would be more encouraged to paint even if it was a slow process? I'm happy just to play the game, but even semi painted models offer a more enriching experience.

[v22TTC]

I'd add a little flexibility to the rules, so they're spirit, rather than letter.

My colour scheme for my Infinity Nomads is only two colours (if excluding black and white, and the highlight colour for one of them), and the bases are smoothed and painted with a lot of freehand, but certainly not 'based' (no gravel or flock will get within a million miles of my slick manga-tech Nomads!).

Fails the rules, yet each one of my dudes is painted to a ludicrously high standard, with total love, and taking ten times as long as it would to reach the 'GW standard' (why none of them are finished yet)....

OK, I'm not a tourney kind of guy (for these kinds of reasons), but have attended some (for work), and it'd be too ridiculous for words if such well-painted minis were marked poorly against someone else's 30 minute per mini rules conformity, or even disqualified... ah, I so love rules....

@Sturm88: Nice post - tons I agree with in your sentiment!

Edited February 25, 2010 by v22TTC

[Joona]

It's always nice to play with and against painted models. Most of the Malifaux miniatures I use are completely painted but if I get a new model I really want to try out I'll play with bare metal. It doesn't matter to me much if the opponents pieces are painted or not. The thing I hate are too many proxied models on one field. I might even go as far as to not play if some starts fielding his '40k Orks and Space marines as Nicodem or Pandora and their gangs. As Guild that would be quite fine, we all know that no one really cares about the Guild any way.

As to when a model is completely painted, I'd have to say that none of the undercoat should be showing. The quality of the painting doesn't affect this so much as not everyone can be a professional painter.

[Hapless Peon]

V22TTC - I'm guessing you were talking about my restrictions when referring to your Infinity models. By your description they would more than pass. You say that you only have two colours (excluding black and white) plus shading and blending. This would get through as I would define 3+ colours as including shades and black and white. As to the bases it sounds like they have been based, just not in the traditional sense. By what you describe it would easily pass the requirements I have set.

I think people may have misunderstood the intent of making a ruling such as I have. To me stipulating 3 colours should not be arduous even to the least capable painter.

[Wombats]

My Raspy crew is pretty much white undercoat, blue wash and white highlight.

Get compliments from people on it.

If I'd the base a different colour to the mini I might get compliments from people who know how to paint, too

[Ropetus]

Playing with unpainted miniatures is a big no for me. If someone wants to use unpainted models against me its fine if they have just bought the game and want to get a try. On the other hand, if they have a painted crew to use, I would prefer to play against those models.

I also like to spend some effort on my models and make them look as nice as possible with my skills. This is the main reason why I moved to skirmish games from Warhammer: having an entire warband nicely painted was not just an utopia.

However, because I'm such an enthusiastic games, this is what I do: I paint the miniature with just the base colors at first. No highlights, no details, nothing. That way the model at least has paint everywhere and looks good enough on the table for friendly games. After that I can take one model at a time and use all the time I need painting every detail while still having a painted crew for painting. If you don't have time to paint, you should try this approach, the base colors take like an hour tops for a Malifaux starter. If you have time to play, you should have time to do a quick paintjob on your models.

-Ropetus

[DangerousBeans]

I don't care what my opponent fields. Personally I despise using unpainted (or even worse, half painted, or worse PROXIED!! AAARRRGGHHHH!) miniatures but I'm not above it if needs must. Plus at least if I have a nicely painted crew I'll get the moral win after I get smooshed all over the gaming board.

Although I'm quite lucky in the sense that I was terminally single for a long time, so got pretty much everything I had painted at the time. Now I just have to paint new releases.

Anyway, to each their own. Some people enjoying playing the games more than painting/modelling, others are the opposite. It's all good.