RASPUTINA game outcomes and model selection debating

[GrottoKnight]

-Played a couple 25ss games.

One VS Mcmourning- Used standard battle box for Raspy. Blood bath that came down to a nurse killing my Ice Golem and he shattered to kill her leaving no models on the board. DRAW

The other VS Pandora- I played Rapsy box but switched the Golem for a Cerebus and a Gamin for The Acolyte. I played too agressive with the Cerebus and left him unsupported. He did get in amazing position to put a beat down on Pandora but WP checks galore can ruin your day. Then I slowly wittled away cade, candy, and 2 woes. Acolytle achieved Sabotage but opponant killed Cerebus for his scheme. WP after WP check was just too overwhelming, bad play on the Tiger, and learned what Pandora was all about.

-30SS games, one scheme, lots of terrain

First, opponant had Marcus, two snakes, cerebus, and two molemen. I had Raspy, 3 hoarcats, cerebus, gamin, and wendigo. We had treasure hunt and scheme played no part, but landslipe special events dealt about 9 total points of damaged throughout the game.

I was able to freeze one snake and cerbus to the center piece of terrain, with the treasure, twice. That really slowed his fast moving army. I was able to ice pillar and separat the other snake from his posse and destroy him with D. Curse. Hoarcats soaked damaged and had to be addressed because of them getting close to Marcus and able to Devour HT 2. Marcus kept casting some Beasty spell that made all my BEAST duels at a negative flip. This made my whole game hell from here on out. I killed all his army but 2 moles and Marcus, he was on his way to return the treasure when he decided to backtrack. Raspy had just failed to kill him. Gamin was killed by moles, wedigo was playing catch up, hoarcats were charged and killed by Marcus then he charged again and killed Raspy. Wedigo left the game was called.

Second game, was same Raspy list above but Essence of Power instead of Wedigo. VS Ramos, 2 gamin, Executioner, Joss.

Tons of Terrain, objectives played no part. Hoarcats did nothing but get stomped by Executioner, Cerebus hit Joss hard and soaked Joss AND Executioner turns before being killed, Raspy came through and leveled most things except two arachnids and Ramos. It looked closer than it was because Raspy spells killed a lot at the end then Ramos finished her.

I blame the Hoarcats lack of verasatility. They may be better in a slower list but they lack any ranged spell as Devour is rarely able to be used. They get chipped away at easily along the way and even if they get to the enemy they have little effectiveness. Cerebus is very good sneaky and fast attack option just dies fast.

30ss Lists I am looking to play next

Raspy, Totem, Joss, Gamin, Ice Golem, Gunslinger OR Johan =30

Raspy, Totem, Joss, 3 Gamin, Gunslinger OR Johan

=29

Raspy, Joss, 2 Gamin, Johan, Gunslinger

=29

Raspy, Totem, Gamin, Hans, Misaki, Gunslinger

=29

Which of the four sounds better? Also, Slinger or Johan?

[nerdelemental]

-Played a couple 25ss games.

-30SS games, one scheme, lots of terrain

First, opponant had Marcus, two snakes, cerebus, and two molemen. I had Raspy, 3 hoarcats, cerebus, gamin, and wendigo. We had treasure hunt and scheme played no part, but landslipe special events dealt about 9 total points of damaged throughout the game.

I was able to freeze one snake and cerbus to the center piece of terrain, with the treasure, twice. That really slowed his fast moving army. I was able to ice pillar and separat the other snake from his posse and destroy him with D. Curse. Hoarcats soaked damaged and had to be addressed because of them getting close to Marcus and able to Devour HT 2. Marcus kept casting some Beasty spell that made all my BEAST duels at a negative flip. This made my whole game hell from here on out. I killed all his army but 2 moles and Marcus, he was on his way to return the treasure when he decided to backtrack. Raspy had just failed to kill him. Gamin was killed by moles, wedigo was playing catch up, hoarcats were charged and killed by Marcus then he charged again and killed Raspy. Wedigo left the game was called.

Your opponent sounds like a tool.

[Pavic]

I like the second choice best, using the gunslinger. That being said, I always try to take the maximum number of soulstones with Rasputina, so I would only be able to spend 26 SS. I find that Rasputina really needs to have this many stones available to ensure her survival and make sure that December's Curse gets through when Rasputina has good positioning and damage potential.

I do not like the fourth or third list at all, mostly because I feel that the additional SS for any mercenary makes them cost just enough extra to make them not worth it. There are instances when this is not true of course, but I would never include more than a single mercenary in any non-Outcast force.

Also, if I may ask, why are you building your forces prior to the game? Being allowed to know your strategy before building your force is a key point of the game, otherwise there would be far too many unbalanced games.

[Monkey]

yep thats one thing i picked up on from the way the games are written up there you are looking at killing the opposition over compleating your objectives.

Picking your force after you know what you need to do is key to make this game balanced

Hoarcats rock hard just not against marcus, also are you playing hte harmless rule to force WP->12 checks to attack them? as that should cut down on the amount that your opponent can damage them b4 the first devour? Also if you do have a wounded cat then use him to finish off opponents in melay to heal them back up to full.

[DangerousBeans]

I like the cats, they're reasonably fast, can have huge damage output with their trigger, can heal themselves and although harmless hasn't done me any favours yet it could come in very handy.

I'd almost always take an essence of power for raspy. When channelling through another model that +fate can make all the difference, especially with the red joker in your hand

I always try to take 3 Gamin, bite of winter is AWSOME and they're tough cookies that deal damage when they die.

So, other than that 14ss I'd take whatever will suit the mission best. We generally play 35ss so gives you a lot of leeway. Joss seems like he could rock ass with Raspy but I've never used him.

Edited November 5, 2009 by DangerousBeans

[paperbag4]

I'm with Pavic on the max soulstones (mostly for casting D. Curse through Gamin). I've never even used my Hoarcats, as mostly it seems that I play against undead or Ramos.

I've been getting ready for a tournament with fixed lists, and the one that I'm (currently) planning on playing is:

Rasputina

Essence of Power

Ice Golem

2x Gamin

Acolyte

leaving 8 stones in reserve.

[GrottoKnight]

Well, I was sorta getting practice in for a Tournament. Sorta because I have had as many games as I listed in total. I have the model count already and will be painting soon. My whole group is switching to Malifaux and I have been traveling to play too.

I am debating over Johan or the Gunslinger. I really like the potential card dropping the Gunslinger can force with Suppressive fire. He also gives more range to a range heavy list. I consider Raspy range heavy and if you go with a list with the Ice Golum or lots or Gamin there is more range options.

Johan provides more melee power and is one cost cheaper with Joss. I like the fact Relic Hammers ignore armor, it seems to provide so punch versus harder to damage targets. Johan, Joss, and Ice Golem for a slower moving brick of awesome. Raspy provides enough range and, if taken, the Ice Golum can lay down the ranged attacks. I fealt in my games that Raspy must be closed in upon and that once reached she just dies.

I am still torn as to whether the Gunslinger will force the issue that the ranged attack is so strong that I must be closed in upon. Maybe sap some cards and then Joss and the Golum or Gamin (depending what i take) can handle melee.

OR

That ,with the same list mentioned above, Johan is needed to add more melee power to the list and count on Raspy for all ranged.

The real problem with these lists is that they don't leave more than 0-1 extra soulstones and ,I agree with the one post, she needs soulstones to be really effective 6-8 preferred

[nerdelemental]

Grootto, you have good insight, but don't get totally discouraged on the Hoarcats. Your game against me shouldn't be part of your evaluation of the effectiveness of the cats since I ran Marcus and I purposefully shut down your beasts with off of him.

Psychologically, the three prides honestly freaked me out a little. I kept thinking, "My god, they can simply eat my Master." And then you started freezing me in place and I knew they were coming.

[Angus Khan]

Psychologically, the three prides honestly freaked me out a little. I kept thinking, "My god, they can simply eat my Master." And then you started freezing me in place and I knew they were coming.

The psychological effects of the hoarcats alone almost make them worth bringing, don't they?

[paperbag4]

Finally played with mine tonight. Pass Through and takes away a lot of the strain of keeping them close together. For "all-comers" lists, I still like the constructs more, but 3 bases of kitties running around together has an undeniable cute factor, right up until they rip your throat out.

(Can I mention the abilities by name here? I know some boards don;t like people talking about game content.)

[TheBugKing]

Go ahead and mention the abilities by name. Everyone else does. Nathan and or Eric should probably put up some chapter and verse on what is actually acceptable. That being said mentioning that the cats have Devour is perfectly fine.

[GrottoKnight]

(If anyone is wondering why I am prebuilding my lists like others out there, Tournaments have sprung up and many call for a prebuilt list)

My list:Raspy, Totem, Joss, Gamin, Ice Golem, Johan =30

Tried this out versus :Perdita box +1

30ss, LOST, turn 4, moderate-weak terrain cover, 0 models to 3

I wanted to try to utilize White Out more to protect from range, stupid idea since it requires an extra suite. When I went back to Ice Pillars it helped but by then it was too late. Her best shot at cover is walking up to it, Ice Pillars, and the Steamborg steam vent which is automatic.

Now, with the recent errata to LOS through cover all Aura cover abilities/spells are much better because if any of your base is not covered by the ice pillar then NO cover. SO, her cover spell is more valuable but still hard to pull off.

Essence Of Power was nice for the extra spell but never useful for the +flip. You se the only spell its good for is Decembers Curse and when I am slamming that I am Cheating and/or Soulstoning to trigger overpower and obliterate the enemy, with that in mind I am getting neutral to positive flips anyway so I can cheat or take what I get that is higher. Since I fel Raspy needs 6-8 soulstones total I am leaning to removing the Essence as it tends to be more of a bother. I would take those 2 SS or consider the Wendigo that is more survivable, has more abilities and can fight.

Gamin was useful to throw spells through and BiteO winter.

Joss was a great beat stick and would have killed Perdita with his 6 attack Reactivate (2xFlurry) but I failed to remembered that he has PAIRED axes, ouch.That would have changed things drastically. I would very much consider the Steam Borg for its Vent Cover ability but alas, I don't have the model yet.

Ice Golum was late to the game as usual, I think his tactics should be written on the card as :

Turn 1-?: WK. WK until melee then fight, when enemy is dead then sling range shots.

I tried to bring him up and statue and maybe sling a spell. He showed up late to be blown apart and never hurt anything. Need to work on him but moving out of list for now.

Johan was great. Being withing 3' of Joss gave him great Range and Melle with +2cb. His 3' threat with Relic Hammer is awesome. Unfortunatley Perdita (ithink) was able to take him over twice and strike Raspy for nasty damage. He only shot but was effective at damage soaking.

I will be hard pressed not to give him another shot he is wicked good at 6ss so long as Joss is in the list.

RETROSPECT:

-I would still like to try the Gunslinger with this list over Joss

-I would like to try Steamborg over Joss

-Dropping Totem or MAYBE going with Wendigo just to throw out Ice Pillars instead of Raspy.

Lists considering:

Raspy, 2 Gamin, Hans, Joss= 26ss

-Steamborg instead of Joss=27ss

-Add Wendigo to either= 28/29ss

OR

(not as usefull but sounds fun)

BRICK formation, Dec. Touch on Raspy, slowly advanncing and Ice pillaring, all would have armor 1- 3

Raspy,Joss, Steamborg, Ice Golum=28ss

-Drop one of the above and add Gunslinger and Wendigo

Edited November 12, 2009 by GrottoKnight

[WEiRD sKeTCH]

Now, with the recent errata to LOS through cover all Aura cover abilities/spells are much better because if any of your base is not covered by the ice pillar then NO cover. SO, her cover spell is more valuable but still hard to pull off.

What errata are you talking about?

This?

Page 84: Cover

Add to the end of the entry:

A Model partially blocking line of site does not provide cover to another model.

The Pillars aren't models. The Pillars are terrain. Thus she would receive cover if part of her base was obscured by an Ice Pillar.

[GrottoKnight]

The Pillars aren't models. The Pillars are terrain. Thus she would receive cover if part of her base was obscured by an Ice Pillar.

Ah, thank you for the clarification. +1 for Raspy as that will help my cause a bit more. I need range protection for her. I gotta watch it though, it helps the enemy too.

[GrottoKnight]

I recently tried :

Raspy, Joss, Gunslinger, 3 Gamin, Essence of Power=29/30ss

This list worked real vs a fast and aggressive Neverborn-Lylyth army, I lost again per usual (record 0 wins, 1 tie, 10 loss to date).

I also tried:

Raspy, Joss, Hans, Essence, 2 gamin'28 but Bad Ju Ju wrecked my day and so did an Obeyed Joss (zoraida) as he beat on Raspy,

I find that Hans had no where near the impact I expected in the two games i played with him.

I find that in my 3 games vs an opponant with Obey, I can do nothing to stop the enemy from beating on rasty with one of my beat sticks as they use a cast and a SS to annihilate any chance I have of stopping it.

My next list will be:

Raspy, Joss, Ice Golum, Gunslinger, Essence= 26/30

I plan to try it using a brick, slow moving, defensive formation casting Dec. Touch to buff 3 models Arm 2. or cast it twice and cheat for White out if I have the cards (drawing it is nonsense).

[goblyn13]

Have you tried the using the following?

Rasputina

3 Hoarcat Prides (15)

1 Sabretooth Cerberus (8)

1 December Acolyte (6)

29ss

should give you a bit more of a punch against living models and of those models the December Acolyte and the Hoarcat prides can heal themselves with Eat your fill. Plus against Lilith's tots you all of them have Devour which will make your opponent blow cards to make sure you don't eat the tots (and if you're really lucky you can use Devour to eat lilith with the hoarcat's thanks to Voracious (gotta make sure you have two of them). Plus the acolyte you can put out a bit further in thanks to From the shadows. December's touch will allow you make the Sabretooth have Frozen heart so you can use Freeze over to make your opponents models immobile.

Disclaimer: Against Constructs and undead this list won't work.

[eruletho]

I played a game last week that was My 'Tina, Joss, Cerberus, and 3 Gamin against Ramos' box and a brass arachnid. The Cerberus would have taken down the 'Borg in one turn but I was dumb and attacked Ramos instead, taking him down to 2 Wd remaining before the 'Borg ripped him apart. The big cat also moved 19" the turn before that to get into position for that. I used the cat to distract the majority of the army so 'Tina, Joss, and 2 gamin (the other one followed the cat for backup) could get to my objective (Stake a Claim sucks...). Joss, while imposing, didn't really do anything for me. It was mostly 'Tina with her (0) cost Biting Chill taking anything and everything down to 1 Wd and then december's cursing it so it dies. She did this to both swarms AND the 'Borg. There had to be over 20 successful Biting Chills that game, it was ridiculous, and about par for the course since that's my normal way to run 'Tina. Good positioning using her other Ap to move and put up a extremely blocking ice pillar wall each turn kept her so that she could focus on just 1 enemy per turn, leaving the gamin (Joss died FAST) to protect her.

[paperbag4]

Sounds like good use of Tina and the Gamin. For Stake a Claim I'll usually leave my cerberus out of the action, and then leap him into the objective on one of the last two turns. (Depending on if there are any opponents there or not.)

[snakeking]

Used 'putina for the first time tonight (though i have quite a few games in with other factions).

List was:

Rasputina

2 Gamin

Cerberus

Golem

2 Kitty prides

played vs Sonnia, samael, 3 witchling stalkers, nino, & convict.

Both had treasure hunt and i took sabotage for both of my schemes.

we had abundant terrain including several 2 story, ruined houses and a fair amount of rocks and debris to hide behind (until i found out all his guild ignore cover).

I went for a total defensive game setting up ice pillars to help shield my advance and using terrain. sent 1 gamin and 2 hoar cats around one flank, the other gamin and cerberus into his zone for sabotage, Rasputina and the golem up the middle towards the treasure (square corner deployment).

I quickly sabotaged one piece of terrain for 2vp. Not long after a witchling picked up the treasure chest (we decided to use 1 chest and fight over it). start of next turn i won initiative flip (actually i wont it every turn!) and froze the witchling to the terrain it was standing on with the treasure, moved the golem into combat. cerberus killed samael. sabotaged the 2nd piece of terrain. somewhere in there both horecats died to some nasty fire from Sonnia. by that time we were finishing up turn 5 and the guild would not be able to achieve more VP's than Raspy!

overall pretty happy with how it went. ive lost to the guilds firepower so i was really worried about that.

I will say the kittens didnt do much, i had almost swapped them out for another gamin and an Acolyte, may try that next time.

was a great game vs wulfen. his last hand of total crap didnt help him!

[eruletho]

always good to hear Arcanists take down Guild (Guild is HUGE in my LGS, about 40% or so of the players play guild), especially when it's the Master nearly specifically designed to shut 'Tina down!

I'm hoping to get in a game or 2 tomorrow, might have something to report on. I was hoping my Hoarcats are in (store already called and said I got a couple things, maybe one will be my acolyte!)

[JBFlanz]

I am jealous of you guys getting out and playing! Sounds like your Raspy adventures are better than the ones I have heard. I am glad to see you using the ice golem, because a lot of chatter on here makes it sound like no one uses her. It is a much needed dmg sink in the center of the table, who can take a pretty good rng beating.

Anyone have some positive thoughts on the golem?

[snakeking]

I had hit him with an armor spell from Rasputina, assuming it was correct that it stacked him up to armor 4. The one time he was attacked by Sonnia in melee he took 3 dmg and armor dropped it to 1, then her closing phase fire that does 3 dmg did another 1. so 2 dmg total from his master.

I think with the golem, just like any big guy i have used (flesh construct, killjoy) will go down to combined fire. Still dont know if he is the best choice as i have only played against it once or twice and used it once.

[paperbag4]

Played a tournament today, went 2-1-1 with the following list:

'Tina

Essence of Power

Golem

Cerberus

Gamin

Gamin

with 3 stones left out of 30, for a total of 7 cached.

The first game was a draw due to time (guy learned to play yesterday, really good sport). He had Treasure Hunt and I had Slaughter. Game finished with 4 models within 2 " of my last Gamin, who had one wound left. Just enough time for 1 December's Curse and I would have had him.

(Tied 2-2)

Second game I had to Assassinate Ramos. That wasn't going to happen. Through judicious use of soulstones and cheating, 'Tina survived combat with Joss and the Steamborg, but I was nowhere close to even casting a spell at Ramos. (Lost 2-4)

Third game was double slaughter against Marcus. He got his last two models (Rattler and Myranda) in combat with the Golem (my last minion except for the totem) when I managed to cast December's Curse and hit my Golem. Cheated the cast to a 15, the defense to a 3, and killed both his models from the Severe damage blasts.

(Won 6-2)

Fourth game was Sonnia, again double Slaughter. By the end of the third turn, all my models were standing, and none of his were. My Cerberus killed 3 of his 5(!) Witchlings, with Gamin taking out the other two. Double blasts from the Icy Burst and December's Curse took down Criid and the Executioner (he ran out of cards to dispell by the time I cast Curse for the final time that turn).

(Win 6-0)

I was happy with the way my list ran, and was playing well except for that second game. Running out of time in two games kept me away from the prizes, but I took down the fantastic terrain that Twilight Emporium donated for the event (I am a shameless schill).

[Pavic]

Off topic, but I have to say I don't like the way the tournament you participated in was run. Forcing people to pick a list and then have a random objective every turn results in far too many unbalanced battles. I still believe that every person should flip for an objective they will use for each game and then have the opportunity to build their lists.

[GrottoKnight]

I went to the same tourny as some of the above and I took:

Raspy

Ice Golem

Joss

Convict Gunslinger

Essence

26/30

I had debated about the Essence or the Wendigo and that probably wouldn't have mattered.

I also debated Con. Gunslinger, Johan, Ronin, and December Acolyte. In some cases I wished I had Johan and another I wished I had the Acolyte. Overall Gunslinger kicks A. I could see dropping Golem and adding two of these guys too if they were not Rare 1 (which is stupid).

I loved the slow brick play with Raspy. I would move Raspy/Essence once and cast Decembers Touch 3 times and/or throwing in White Out depending on my opponants models. Depending on who needed the armor it was awesome. Joss could get 2-5 armor, Golem 2-4, and Gunslinger (bulletproof1) 1-3 which made them tought o eat through.

Then I would launch my offensive when in place. Cheating and SSing Decembers Curse 2-3 times and trying to pull off overpower and using the Ice burst strike from the Ice Golem to lay it on thick after they spent many or all their cards to not let me devestate too much with Raspy. I also thought about the Steamborg because of his vent giving me the auto cover vs casting white out. Problem with these are that I feel Raspy needs 8ss and 6ss minimum.

Raspy

Essence

Golem (I wish 2 Golem and drop the borg)

Joss

Steamborg

30/30

Edited November 27, 2009 by GrottoKnight
typos, logistics