OG Schill or Title Darth Schill?

[Davos]

When do people consider playing Darth Schill instead of OG?  Since Burns dropped, I've found reason to play Darth exactly 4 times, with one of those games being a showmatch against Title Hoff.  The other times were just random practice for an event and then 2 event games against Pandora.  In every other case, when, OG feels the pick without question.

 

What pools/matchups/reasons do y'all look for to take Darth?  I'm stand firmly by that he's a solid pick into Dora, but beyond that, I really don't know.

 

[Azahul]

So to my mind, Schill2's advantages are:

-Ruthless

-Marker removal

-Counters negative flips (Serene Countenance, Concealment, etc.)

-AOE damage on his melee (massively improves his damage output when it comes up)

-2" melee for locking down enemy models

-Fewer TNs to meet, more emphasis on opposed duels. This makes him better with Yannic and two Engineers I feel, since the Severes you accrue are better used on Min 3 attacks than hitting Load Up TNs

-The ability to do "more" in a turn. You get to use each upgrade he equips twice before it gets completely removed, and he can both attack and get an upgrade for a single AP. I put "more" in quotation marks though because he can't focus his AP in on movement/scoring as well as Schill1. It feels like he lets you spread your attention better instead.

Personally I usually play Freikorps on brawlier pools rather than as my default crew, so for me Schill2 is actually a more typical pick. I don't play my Freikorps if the pool requires a lot of AP to score, and being able to funnel AP into scoring is Schill1's biggest advantage over 2 (that and being tankier). So unless I am concerned about my opponent killing Schill and want more durability, I actually lean more towards Schill2 these days.

I imagine it's a different story though for those who use Freikorps as their all-rounder crew into every pool. Once you start playing them in Symbols or Breakthrough pools Schill1 undoubtedly leaps ahead.

[admiralvorkraft]

I know that I never want to see Darth declared against me, but that's because aggro Masters are boring (to me) on either side of the table.

OG looks way more fun and interesting but I think it's a matter of evaluating whether you need to get in your oponents face, and how quickly. You might run Darth with more of the minions if you wanted to do that for some reason?

[Maniacal_cackle]

16 minutes ago, Azahul said:

-Counters negative flips (Serene Countenance, Concealment, etc.)

One thing I found in practice with my Molly vs Schill is that the main model that wanted to ignore my minus flips was Schill himself... So the ability ended up a bit clunky in that regard.

Of course Molly just single-activationed Arik start of turn 2 while Archie tied up the whole backline, so maybe it'd be different in a more usual-case game.

[Davos]

6 minutes ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Of course Molly just single-activationed Arik start of turn 2 while Archie tied up the whole backline, so maybe it'd be different in a more usual-case game.

You're a monster.  I thought kiwis were supposed to be kind!

 

Though that really does show the problem with the whole "10ss 8 wd" henchmen...even armor doesn't do much....honestly surprised against irreducible Arik even hits the board 🤐

[Azahul]

5 minutes ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

One thing I found in practice with my Molly vs Schill is that the main model that wanted to ignore my minus flips was Schill himself... So the ability ended up a bit clunky in that regard.

Of course Molly just single-activationed Arik start of turn 2 while Archie tied up the whole backline, so maybe it'd be different in a more usual-case game.

You aren't wrong that it's clunky. He's also the only model he can't hand focus out to! But it's still useful on occasion. Enabling an Engineer to shoot Jaakuna in Concealment and Combat came up.

I am surprised the Schill player was down so many cards start of Turn 2. I hope they got a good Hannah activation out of it!

[Maniacal_cackle]

14 minutes ago, Azahul said:

You aren't wrong that it's clunky. He's also the only model he can't hand focus out to! But it's still useful on occasion. Enabling an Engineer to shoot Jaakuna in Concealment and Combat came up.

I am surprised the Schill player was down so many cards start of Turn 2. I hope they got a good Hannah activation out of it!

Archie rushes in, pressures yannic for the kill.

He kills Archie but it takes 3 (of 7) cards. That turned on disturbing story.

19 minutes ago, Davos said:

You're a monster.  I thought kiwis were supposed to be kind!

 

Though that really does show the problem with the whole "10ss 8 wd" henchmen...even armor doesn't do much....honestly surprised against irreducible Arik even hits the board 🤐

She is almost never in range to use that attack, but yeah he is more niche than Hannah imo.

Ironically I think he is better against Molly than Hannah though.

[Azahul]

5 minutes ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Archie rushes in, pressures yannic for the kill.

He kills Archie but it takes 3 (of 7) cards. That turned on disturbing story.

She is almost never in range to use that attack, but yeah he is more niche than Hannah imo.

Ironically I think he is better against Molly than Hannah though.

Honestly if I'm not bringing Arik I start to seriously question if Hannah is worth her points.

 

And at that point I'm just not playing Freikorps and declaring another Master.

[Burnin4tor]

On 6/20/2022 at 11:28 AM, Davos said:

You're a monster.  I thought kiwis were supposed to be kind!

 

Though that really does show the problem with the whole "10ss 8 wd" henchmen...even armor doesn't do much....honestly surprised against irreducible Arik even hits the board 🤐

He’s an import so he brings his cruel streak to our friendly nation. But he smiles while he’s punishing you 😛

[Trample]

Well, VS2 is a heck of a lot more action efficient than VS1. Clearly you're suit dependent to maximize that efficiency and it rewards aggression, but the opportunity is clearly there. With VS1 you're often using Load Up on the first turn once or twice and usually looking for a mask to do it twice at least once. You're getting a bit more than an upgrade out because you push and do something else every time (usually hand out an upgrade). With VS2 you get the upgrade as part of an action, can use a bonus action off of the upgrade at no cost, and kick the upgrade to another model. So, in a game like wedge - turf war:

VS1: Load up (x2 boots on Arik and RL on Hannah); Load up (shield and focus on Arik); discard for focus; Shoot with focus 

VS2:  FMM on Arik (get boots and give Arik focus); leap (boots to Arik); charge - attack 3 times and get at least one upgrade in the process. Shield and maybe boots? 

You've given out a similar number of upgrades (3, maybe 4) and focus. You've attacked 3 times vs. once (with focus) with the gun. The other thing that happens with VS2 is he enhances the work the Metallurgist and Steam Trunk do. If they give him an upgrade it's almost as if they've given him 2 upgrades. He can easily use multiple upgrades in a turn (boots and rocker launcher) and pass both off (say to Hannah) who can use them both again. I love something like that in flank. 

I played VS1 the last time I played because it was BTL and VS1 is an awesome scheme runner. His job that game was the strategy and he spent little time doing other things. He's awesome and I am not suggesting VS2 is better, but there are a lot of situations where he can do a heck of a lot of work. As you've already pointed out, he is a hard counter to Pandora, but also is the default pick against any marker-reliant masters. VS2 is less resilient, and I would be reluctant to have him in a pool with assassinate, but  otherwise I think he's generally pretty good and the right pick some of the time (say  ~ 40%). 

[Zebo]

Sooo... 

Not really sure about your 1st turn. Mine with VS1 use to be 2 actions (plus triggers if possible) on load up and one action walking. My opponent usually is not as kind to approach a target into 14-18" Inches of Von Schill. 

The idea of an enemy inside Von Schill's 2 threat range to leap, charge and attack 3 times feels also a bit unreal to me. 

Although it can be obviously our metas. 

[James Dyson]

If the enemy isn't in range, you can always FMM, Attach Boots, walk, concentrate, Chuck a grenade 

Ive also had turns where Trunk or Metallurgist gives him a Rocket Launcher before activating so he has a ranged shot turn 1 that then flies back to someone else

[Azahul]

Or charge and punch Arik, using a low crow to get another upgrade up, leap, and make a focused Rocket Launcher attack or something.

[Trample]

On 7/9/2022 at 10:12 AM, Zebo said:

Sooo... 

Not really sure about your 1st turn. Mine with VS1 use to be 2 actions (plus triggers if possible) on load up and one action walking. My opponent usually is not as kind to approach a target into 14-18" Inches of Von Schill. 

The idea of an enemy inside Von Schill's 2 threat range to leap, charge and attack 3 times feels also a bit unreal to me. 

Although it can be obviously our metas. 

Well, if they don't approach that close they're probably spending the game in their half of the board! If they do that we'll just break out the rocket launchers! Either way, I was only giving an example of his action economy. Again, I am not suggesting he's better than VS1, but is pretty good nevertheless.