Why is everyone so afraid of hazardous terrain?

[Azahul]

6 hours ago, Adran said:

That is another problem with your suggestions, if you are at a tournament then generally they have pre set all the boards, and most events don't predefine the terrain (so terrain pieces are on the table but it's up to both players to define what they are) so you and your opponent have to sort them. 

I admit I find it fascinating to hear that this is the norm. Since the overwhelming bulk of the scene locally is brand new, including myself, and the only example on how to run tournaments was the MWS, I just assumed it was a responsibility of the TO to define terrain. Part of my set-up on local tournament days is to have two A4 sheets of paper next to each table defining the terrain on the board for players.

[Maniacal_cackle]

6 minutes ago, Azahul said:

I admit I find it fascinating to hear that this is the norm. Since the overwhelming bulk of the scene locally is brand new, including myself, and the only example on how to run tournaments was the MWS, I just assumed it was a responsibility of the TO to define terrain. Part of my set-up on local tournament days is to have two A4 sheets of paper next to each table defining the terrain on the board for players.

This is how the UK does it as well, but they have pre-packaged terrain where it is all sorted before arriving to the venue.

Locally, we don't know what terrain is going to be available on the day until we start setting up (sometimes we can snag it the night before but then sometimes other systems walk away with it).

So defining pre-game is the best way to go.

Defining pre-game also has a nice upside that it makes it more likely that the players discuss the terrain together beforehand, which is best practice in vassal anyway.

[Azahul]

27 minutes ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

This is how the UK does it as well, but they have pre-packaged terrain where it is all sorted before arriving to the venue.

Locally, we don't know what terrain is going to be available on the day until we start setting up (sometimes we can snag it the night before but then sometimes other systems walk away with it).

So defining pre-game is the best way to go.

Defining pre-game also has a nice upside that it makes it more likely that the players discuss the terrain together beforehand, which is best practice in vassal anyway.

Yeah, it definitely helps that I can usually supply two thirds of a tournament's terrain on my own (and it should be 100% when my next embarrassingly expensive terrain Kickstarter finally delivers), so the little bit that I need to fill in the blanks can be scrawled down with a pen while setting up on the day.

 

One thing I found that helps make sure players are actually thinking about the terrain too (in lieu of forcing a discussion) is to actually have a callout at the bottom of each page about especially significant pieces of terrain. Stuff like "Unimpeded isn't all it's cracked up to be when the bogs are Hazardous, not Severe" or "Boy I really did put a lot of corpse markers down on this table"...

[Adran]

3 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

This is how the UK does it as well, but they have pre-packaged terrain where it is all sorted before arriving to the venue

 

I've not been to any event for a few years, but it was the case that 1 ( awesome) TO was including pictures of layout and definitions. It helps that they probably own more terrain than most clubs ( I think ive seen over 70 tables worth and that was 3 years ago) and are very prepared to travel and help and let people borrow it. 

I don't know how common it is outside their events.

I think it's a good idea, but it often requires you to have dedicated malifaux terrain very carefully organised or the ability to set up the event in advance and evaluate every table and print out the types. 

[RisingPhoenix]

14 hours ago, Adran said:

That is another problem with your suggestions, if you are at a tournament then generally they have pre set all the boards, and most events don't predefine the terrain (so terrain pieces are on the table but it's up to both players to define what they are) so you and your opponent have to sort them. I know I've had games where I've suggested the train tracks are severe and my opponent has gone '' that's too much hassle to measure, let's not."

To be fair this thread just suggested "Hazardous (Staggered)" instead of severe and I suddenly like that so much that I wish all Severe Terrain was Hazardous (staggered) instead.  It would save a ton of time.  If you polished up the rules on it a little, you could probably just make it a core rules change.

[Mycellanious]

If you want to play every game with some form of Hazardous Terrain, great. The rules completely support that! It seems very strange to me however to want to force everyone else who plays the game to conform to that style of play?

[LordZombie]

I feel it is because people don't like to take damage they can't control or resist. Nobody in an event setting wants a model to die from a piece of terrain. Only time I have ever seen rules about using or placing terrain is in story encounter level encounters. M3e feels way more like tournament edition for that kind of rule for terrain. 

[Maniacal_cackle]

I've been told the Gaining Grounds encourages having environmental damage,  but that includes falling damage.

[Azahul]

Hazardous schmazardous. I'll play on a table trying to kill me any day of the week. The real terrain everyone is too cowardly about is markers. If I've got a graveyard on my table you'd better believe there are some corpse markers before the game even begins. A fight near a train station or foundry? Probably some scrap. Heck, not unheard of for me to grab some spare Underbrush markers for a forest game, though that one probably is getting a tad niche. Yes I know it gives an advantage to some Keywords. That's why Malifaux lets you pick your crew after seeing the table. Lean into it 😁

[Maniacal_cackle]

19 minutes ago, Azahul said:

Hazardous schmazardous. I'll play on a table trying to kill me any day of the week. The real terrain everyone is too cowardly about is markers. If I've got a graveyard on my table you'd better believe there are some corpse markers before the game even begins. A fight near a train station or foundry? Probably some scrap. Heck, not unheard of for me to grab some spare Underbrush markers for a forest game, though that one probably is getting a tad niche. Yes I know it gives an advantage to some Keywords. That's why Malifaux lets you pick your crew after seeing the table. Lean into it 😁

All of that makes sense except the underbrush markers - why aren't they just 50mm forests?

I guess this lets molly lost knowledge them... Nevermind, I'm on board!!

[Azahul]

17 minutes ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

All of that makes sense except the underbrush markers - why aren't they just 50mm forests?

I guess this lets molly lost knowledge them... Nevermind, I'm on board!!

Because a) They're not Dense, and b) They're mere underbrush, not a forest!

[Regelridderen]

10 hours ago, Azahul said:

Hazardous schmazardous. I'll play on a table trying to kill me any day of the week. The real terrain everyone is too cowardly about is markers. If I've got a graveyard on my table you'd better believe there are some corpse markers before the game even begins. A fight near a train station or foundry? Probably some scrap. Heck, not unheard of for me to grab some spare Underbrush markers for a forest game, though that one probably is getting a tad niche. Yes I know it gives an advantage to some Keywords. That's why Malifaux lets you pick your crew after seeing the table. Lean into it 😁

That is such a great idea. The best tournaments are often defined by their tables and the stories they convey. 😊

[50 SS Enforcer]

My most regular opponent has now agreed to card generated terrain. Suit defines what type, and weak, moderate, severe determine size.