Maniacal_cackle Posted July 16, 2021 Report Share Posted July 16, 2021 It has been a while since our last community thread, and we have some major material to work with! Now that Gaining Grounds 2 has been out for a bit, we can probably get the ball rolling on talking about the scheme pools! So for this thread, feel free to talk about the overall scheme pools, individual schemes, or even cheat a little and throw in some strategies and deployments. New things in Gaining Grounds 2... Outflank: Now requires a scheme marker in addition to a model to score. Vendetta: Can no longer do replace shenanigans to score it. Death Beds: Kill someone next to a chosen marker AND a scheme marker, then have two scheme markers near the chosen markers on the enemy table half. Bait and Switch: Have a chosen enemy next to a scheme marker away from the centreline on your half, and then have an empty deployment zone (<8 stones of models in your deployment zone at the end). What do people think of scheme pools this season? What's working for you? What's not working? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maniacal_cackle Posted July 16, 2021 Author Report Share Posted July 16, 2021 I don't like the scheme pools this season (so much so that I made a general discussion thread on the topic!) More schemes than ever before are about the enemy (8/13). Meanwhile, the schemes that are scored positionally like Outflank are very difficult. I haven't successfully done Outflank for two points with any crew yet. The new vendetta changes haven't affected me much. I imagine they'd make old Yan Lo sad, but with his rebuild corpus changes it probably doesn't matter that much. Death Beds feels like much harder Dig Their Graves for the first point, which I don't like at all. The second point is somewhat easy if you can spare the AP on leylines/turf war, but also it is highly telegraphed and your opponent is going to be right in your face to stop you. The strategies are great for a Molly playstyle this season, but the schemes have me sad for sure. What's everyone else finding? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoisyAssassin Posted July 16, 2021 Report Share Posted July 16, 2021 I've been playing Cooper in GG2, and so far every scheme pool has had at least 3 schemes that I feel are viable for him given the strat/terrain/matchup. Hate the new Outflank though, and just can't imagine a game or crew (with any keyword I own) where I'd want to devote models to scoring both points. Even one seems super iffy. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graf Posted July 16, 2021 Report Share Posted July 16, 2021 I feel like Wyrd *wanted* to change the role of schemes with GG2. Before, it more or less was an even 50/50 split between strategy and schemes. If you focused primarily on your schemes and took one or two easy strategy points along the way, you had a good shot at winning the game. In GG2 it seems to me like they want you to focus first and foremost on the strategy and shore up your win with~two scheme VPs. These different approaches aren't inherently better or worse imho. Personally I'm unsure atm. I really like GG2's strategies. But I feel like too many schemes tend to become a "win more, loose more" situation. Outflank propably is the worst offender. First point is manageable for mobile crews (or if you have really cheap schemer), but you will not score the 2nd point, unless you basically wiped your opponent, because otherwise you cannot afford to put 2 models this far away from the action for 2-3(!) turns. It also made scheme choice less of a interesting decision, because you usually know exactly which two to pick - unless all of them aren't good for you, then it feels more like a "pick your poison" situation. xD Same goes for your opponent of course, you can estimate your opponent's schemes reasonably well now, which kills the "poker" aspect a bit. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fetid Strumpet Posted July 16, 2021 Report Share Posted July 16, 2021 I dunno, it's a hard balance. For every old scheme one prefers there were crews that just couldn't do it. And to be honest I prefer schemes that force you to in some way interact with the opponent. I think some of the old missed strats were just too easy and lead to non-interactive game play. I prefer the new outflank, personally, to the old one. Yes it's harder, because the old one was way too easy. The only new scheme I'm personally not a fan of is Death Beds, but I don't hate it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stumpyfjord Posted July 16, 2021 Report Share Posted July 16, 2021 Yesterday was my first try at new outflank and missed both points on a black jokered ride with me in Corner deployment. It’s difficulty is up but I like that the scheme marker can be effectively up to 7+” away from the corner table edge. Not sure how I feel about it overall yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maniacal_cackle Posted July 16, 2021 Author Report Share Posted July 16, 2021 One thing to note is Seamus is incredible at Outflank if there's terrain for it. 3 hours ago, Stumpyfjord said: Yesterday was my first try at new outflank and missed both points on a black jokered ride with me in Corner deployment. It’s difficulty is up but I like that the scheme marker can be effectively up to 7+” away from the corner table edge. Not sure how I feel about it overall yet. 7" away from the corner table edge? How so? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maniacal_cackle Posted July 16, 2021 Author Report Share Posted July 16, 2021 Has anyone tried Reva on Death Beds? I assume it is a lot easier for her? Although getting the scheme marker could be tricky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tris Posted July 16, 2021 Report Share Posted July 16, 2021 1 hour ago, Maniacal_cackle said: One thing to note is Seamus is incredible at Outflank if there's terrain for it. 7" away from the corner table edge? How so? I think because the marker just has to be in 3" to the models who have to be in 3" to the centerline edge/corner - it actually could even be more than 7" if you use every millimeter, depending on base sizes. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graf Posted July 17, 2021 Report Share Posted July 17, 2021 4 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said: Has anyone tried Reva on Death Beds? I assume it is a lot easier for her? Although getting the scheme marker could be tricky. Not with Reva, I've recently played it with Schtook and Daw. Either with Turf War or Leylines. Schtook is easy mode imho. Any kill with corpse drop comes with a gratis scheme marker. Daw had a Gravedigger, so only the scheme marker took any effort and Guilty tend to be able to spend one Interact per activation near the centerline. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maniacal_cackle Posted July 17, 2021 Author Report Share Posted July 17, 2021 3 hours ago, Tris said: I think because the marker just has to be in 3" to the models who have to be in 3" to the centerline edge/corner - it actually could even be more than 7" if you use every millimeter, depending on base sizes. Oh, handy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stumpyfjord Posted July 17, 2021 Report Share Posted July 17, 2021 7 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said: One thing to note is Seamus is incredible at Outflank if there's terrain for it. 7" away from the corner table edge? How so? Tris has it. 7+ For the base size. Death beds is pretty good for Reva in my games with her. Mourners make corpses schemes, Reva can move people, and Vikings can move people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tris Posted July 17, 2021 Report Share Posted July 17, 2021 4 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said: Oh, handy! And a hell lot easier than what you thought it seems? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maniacal_cackle Posted July 17, 2021 Author Report Share Posted July 17, 2021 6 minutes ago, Tris said: And a hell lot easier than what you thought it seems? I think it is mostly the same for most cases, other than opening a few new bluffing opportunities? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stumpyfjord Posted July 17, 2021 Report Share Posted July 17, 2021 Outflank is still a lot of effort. Or at least way more than I am used to. The extra scheme marker distance probably matters more in square deployment. A model only needs to be ~10” off the center line and interact (assuming the scoring model is small based). And means you can bluff spread more easily as noted. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admiralvorkraft Posted July 17, 2021 Report Share Posted July 17, 2021 Outflank is very doable if you have models with Deadly Pursuit who can walk, scheme, and then push in at eot... At least the first point. Otherwise, not so much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maniacal_cackle Posted July 17, 2021 Author Report Share Posted July 17, 2021 4 hours ago, admiralvorkraft said: Outflank is very doable if you have models with Deadly Pursuit who can walk, scheme, and then push in at eot... At least the first point. Otherwise, not so much. That's still one turn off to score, and one turn to get back into position. That's a lot of time out of the action (especially since you generally have to waste turn 1 waiting to score). It works a lot better if there is like a break the line marker there, but then the fighting may be too intense to score. I suppose actually Archie could fight for the marker while a crooligan provides the scheme? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admiralvorkraft Posted July 18, 2021 Report Share Posted July 18, 2021 2 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said: That's still one turn off to score, and one turn to get back into position. That's a lot of time out of the action (especially since you generally have to waste turn 1 waiting to score). It works a lot better if there is like a break the line marker there, but then the fighting may be too intense to score. I suppose actually Archie could fight for the marker while a crooligan provides the scheme? It's still not /great/ don't get me wrong. Two Hunters, or two Monster Hunters were my most successful option - obviously that was a Guild thing though. It's a better scheme if you have ranged models. Run and Gun is probably nice for it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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