Unleashing the beast - first impressions of Neverborn Marcus.

[Maniacal_cackle]

4 minutes ago, extremor said:

Yes I totally agree. @Ogid once convinced me that NVB Marcus is less about killing and more about spreading out, scoring and using the extreme mobility and flexibility. Before I focused on killing while building crews and playing. Since then my builds changed and the usage of Myranda changed. 
 

BUT: right now I think I know that Marcus is both: a master to be mobile and score easily and a master that can kill keypieces easily if set up correctly. I use different builds and don’t have a „Core“ because Marcus adapts to opponents faction, strat and schemes. I use to struggle vs rezzer a lot because of h2w and after I changed my playstyle and builds against them it got way easier. 
 

long story short: If Myranda works for you that way it’s great. If you get to the point where Marcus doesn’t perform well it may be time for a change of play. It ain’t cause Marcus sucks but because he has so many options and it is hard to choose the fitting one for opponents, strat, schemes. At least that’s what I think. But then again I haven’t played any tournaments with Marcus *sad*

Yeah, I was saying on Discord earlier I feel like Marcus is good at everything, but only great at some things.

The key to winning with him is probably identifying what role done 'well enough' will win any given game.

[Maniacal_cackle]

Went against Zoraida so had to drop all my models that have adaptive evolution basically. Went with:

• Marcus & Jackalope
• Grootslang w/ inhuman reflexes
• Myranda
• Order initiate with ancient pact
• Cerberus with ancient pact
• Bandersnatch
• Will o' the Wisp
• 2 stones

The Grootslang, Jackalope, and Wisp essentially shut down his melee-based crew (and Wisp scored hidden martyrs when it died). Extremely potent combo and it may become part of my base crew against melee crews.

Bandersnatch died in a single activation because it stepped about 2 inches out of my deployment zone xD Really not sold on the model when you don't have Widow Weaver. You can do a lot more with it if you're pouring AP from other models into it, but I'd rather spend my AP elsewhere. Will give it a few more goes, though.

Neverborn Marcus feels more and more powerful the more I play it. Can't wait to play some more!

[Maniacal_cackle]

My biggest issue with Marcus so far is often I'm not lining up well with the schemes/strategies.

Schemes:

• Breakthrough - amazing, love doing this.
• Detonate charges - doesn't feel great, but could tech an Aeslin easily?
• Vendetta - love it.
• Assassinate - hate having this in the pool. I want Marcus to be expendable, not having his survival being mandatory.
• Claim jump - i've done it really well sometimes, and sometimes it is a pain as I hate bubble crews.
• Hidden martyrs - LOVE it.
• Death beds - big ol' pile of meh.
• Catch and release - LOVE It. Cerberus is the dream for this scheme.
• Let them bleed - easy peasy, solid. Not doable against all crews.
• Outflank - should be really easy, but i struggle with it. I think I play too elite perhaps and need more things like wisps.
• Research mission - difficult so far, but between Groot and Bandy (and Myranda), should be easy to make enough markers to complete this.
• Spread them out - LOVE it.
• Bait and switch - everyone just hates this scheme, right?

Strategies:

• Turf war - I like expendable models, so turf war sometimes feels rough, sometimes feels good, depending on matchup.
• Corrupted leylines - haven't figured out how to do it well yet, but I assume just go with the suggestion of razorspine rattler with camoflage.
• Symbols of authority - LOVE it. So easy to do with this crew.
• Break The Line - haven't done it yet, I think, but I suspect all that AP is going to really suck for my default builts. Probably can't bring Cojo into this every time.

I also like that grootslang & wisps can guard markers so effectively, making them a massive PITA.

So I think I play Marcus pretty well, but I need to change a few of the okay-ish ones above to solid. Once I get the strategies down I think I'll be decent with the crew

[Maniacal_cackle]

Just got STOMPED by Misaki.

I did my charge based crew (grootslang, cojo, myranda, etc). And Misaki + Yamaziko each had extended reach, and he had two take the hit charm warders, as well as a Mr. Tannen to stop me cheating cards. So it just shut down the entire build xD

I'm thinking I need to learn a more scheme oriented marcus as well, as that'd have served me well that game. Grootslang + wisps to tie up the enemy, then lots of scheming power.

[Corwin]

6 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Just got STOMPED by Misaki.

I did my charge based crew (grootslang, cojo, myranda, etc). And Misaki + Yamaziko each had extended reach, and he had two take the hit charm warders, as well as a Mr. Tannen to stop me cheating cards. So it just shut down the entire build xD

I'm thinking I need to learn a more scheme oriented marcus as well, as that'd have served me well that game. Grootslang + wisps to tie up the enemy, then lots of scheming power.

Paul Crockett might work good in that match up. The beasts get in hitting range and he makes them take swings.  He can stay out of the auras too.

[Maniacal_cackle]

4 minutes ago, Corwin said:

Paul Crockett might work good in that match up. The beasts get in hitting range and he makes them take swings.  He can stay out of the auras too.

Yeah, he has been suggested by a few people and I actually found him okay with frontier so might give him a go.

Stat 5 is sad though for a model that offers nothing but attacks.

[Regelridderen]

On 6/19/2021 at 11:36 AM, Maniacal_cackle said:

Stat 5 is sad though for a model that offers nothing but attacks.

It’s a stat 5 attack offering potentially 2 extra attacks. That’s AP efficiency at it’s best. 

[Maniacal_cackle]

5 minutes ago, Regelridderen said:

It’s a stat 5 attack offering potentially 2 extra attacks. That’s AP efficiency at it’s best. 

True!

[Adran]

1 hour ago, Regelridderen said:

It’s a stat 5 attack offering potentially 2 extra attacks. That’s AP efficiency at it’s best. 

Just remember that its well known that each shot from Paul can be 3 attacks. Expect your opponent to save to cheat to prevent the first attack. If you don't think you have the hand to make the attack hit, don't worry, just hold it as a threat as long as possible, and your opponent is likely to be holding their best cards to prevent it all through the turn. A lot of his strength is in the bluff that he can achieve that. If you can make your opponent believe you have a high mask and cards to discard for attacks, then you can get a lot from him. Its often a hidden power that people don't realise, because what it is doing is affecting opponents choices, and you often don't see how many slightly worse things they end up doing each turn because he is there. 

 

[Maniacal_cackle]

34 minutes ago, Adran said:

Just remember that its well known that each shot from Paul can be 3 attacks. Expect your opponent to save to cheat to prevent the first attack. If you don't think you have the hand to make the attack hit, don't worry, just hold it as a threat as long as possible, and your opponent is likely to be holding their best cards to prevent it all through the turn. A lot of his strength is in the bluff that he can achieve that. If you can make your opponent believe you have a high mask and cards to discard for attacks, then you can get a lot from him. Its often a hidden power that people don't realise, because what it is doing is affecting opponents choices, and you often don't see how many slightly worse things they end up doing each turn because he is there. 

 

Yeah, also one of the things I'm getting better at recognising is when I just need to flip some cards.

Like Paul Crockett is two extra flips that if they go your way, they can be potentially devastating. If they miss, he probably isn't that crucial to your gameplan as a 6 stone model.

EDIT: Or even if you just flip higher than your opponent, they've got a tough choice to make. Do they use a 13 to stop an attack from a shitty 6 stone model?

[Morgan Vening]

28 minutes ago, Adran said:

Just remember that its well known that each shot from Paul can be 3 attacks. Expect your opponent to save to cheat to prevent the first attack. If you don't think you have the hand to make the attack hit, don't worry, just hold it as a threat as long as possible, and your opponent is likely to be holding their best cards to prevent it all through the turn. A lot of his strength is in the bluff that he can achieve that. If you can make your opponent believe you have a high mask and cards to discard for attacks, then you can get a lot from him. Its often a hidden power that people don't realise, because what it is doing is affecting opponents choices, and you often don't see how many slightly worse things they end up doing each turn because he is there. 

Yup. It's an ability that people don't tend to consider. Like Lady J's Counterattack. Is it easy to stop? Absolutely. Don't attack unless you can cheat above it.

But it means they have to keep that 12 or 13 for it, or forgo attacks on Lady J.

That the ability rarely actually works is irrelevant. It's changed how your opponent plays their game, either keeping a card that could have been used elsewhere, or keeping Lady J from extra attacks that might otherwise go her way.

They're not common throughout Malifaux, but there's quite a lot out there. "Does this do something" is easier to evaluate than "Does this make my opponent have to play around this thing that might not happen".

[Regelridderen]

Exactly. It’s huuuge threat that will at worst mess with your opponents hand. And a 14” discard severe cards -ability on a 6 Stone model is plenty a nuisance. 

[Kiryn]

Am I missing something but is there not value in taking a changeling to get upgrades out too?

[Maniacal_cackle]

2 minutes ago, Kiryn said:

Am I missing something but is there not value in taking a changeling to get upgrades out too?

That would be so damn powerful, but changeling says you can't do upgrades.

I went through the exact same thing

[Kiryn]

Ah yes of course. App is not working for me so couldn't check. Thought I must have been missing something. Bummer