Misaki "From shadow" edge cases

[Vessien]

Hi,

 

We hace recently started to play Malifaux and after several games with Misaki, there are a couple of situations where we have not clear how the "From Shadow" ability would apply.

 

The situationd are as follows:

1) If there are no Shadow markers left, what happens? Does Misaki unbury in the deployment zone? Does she have the movement penalty?

2) If Misaky unburies in base contact with Shang using "Flickering Flames", does she have the movement penalty?

 

The doubts in question are related to the edge cases that are mentioned in (at least) a couple of threads of the forum. But we would like to have clear answer based on the rules if possible.

 

Mentioned threads are:

 

 

 

Greetings and Merry Christmas!! 😃

 

 

[Maniacal_cackle]

Good questions! They seem ambiguous, but I would play it...

1. Misaki unburies in her deployment zone (unambiguous, definitely happens) without the movement penalty (ambiguous, but I think this because of the 'if it does so' line).
2. I think the answer for this is the same as the answer to 1. So whatever you rule for the answer to 1, the same answer will apply to number 2.

[solkan]

As far as I can tell, the only possible thing that "If it does so" can refer to is specifically "Unbury into base contact with a Shadow Marker, then remove that Marker".  

For Shang's Flickering Flames, the "if it does so" clause has to refer to Unburying into base contact with Shang.  If you invoke that ability, that rules out the "if it does so" clause in From Shadow.

In other words, if Misaki is buried at the start of her activation, the player has a choice between two options:

• Option A:  Unbury Misaki in base contact with a friendly Shadow Marker, then remove that Marker.
• Option B:  Unbury Misaki in base contact with Shang, if Shang exists and the player wants to.

The first option is going to going to cause the Mv penalty specified in From Shadow to be applied.  The second option is going to Heal Misaki 2 damage and cause Shang 2 damage.

If there's no Shang in play, then Option B isn't in play.  If there are no Shadow Markers in play, there's no change to Option A.  There's no change because the Unbury rules are written such that "Unbury into base contact with a Pink Elephant" will always succeed, even though no Pink Elephants exist in the game--the model can't be placed as specified so it is instead placed in the Deployment Zone, but that's still following the instructions on how to resolve an Unbury.

 

[Adran]

I would say if she unburies due to from shadows then she suffers the mv penalty.

[Vessien]

Thank you for youtlr responses!

 

It seems to me like a 1-1 for the moment for each interpretation.

 

I would personally go with the first one because of the "if it does so" mentioned. If it was intended to be all the times (even when no shadow marker is removed), it could be refrased in a simpler and clearer way.

 

Since there is no official answer I guess we will have to discuss it in our gaming group and see how it goes. Hehehe.

 

Any further reasonings are welcome of course! ^^

[Adran]

1 hour ago, Vessien said:

Thank you for youtlr responses!

 

It seems to me like a 1-1 for the moment for each interpretation.

 

I would personally go with the first one because of the "if it does so" mentioned. If it was intended to be all the times (even when no shadow marker is removed), it could be refrased in a simpler and clearer way.

 

Since there is no official answer I guess we will have to discuss it in our gaming group and see how it goes.

My reading of the two threads mentioned was the common consensus was that the " if it does..." Referred to the unbury and not the removal of a shadow marker, but then you can see me argue that in both those threads. But discussion with the people you play with is always best. 

[Vessien]

Thank you for the detailed and well reasoned response @solkan. I got to say it makes sense to me and is the option I am goig to propose to my friends.

Just to make sure i got the final point, you mean that if Misaki is deployed in the DZ due to the lack of Shadow Markers in play, the Mv penalty should still apply, right?

 

[regleant]

On 12/30/2020 at 6:31 PM, Vessien said:

Thank you for the detailed and well reasoned response @solkan. I got to say it makes sense to me and is the option I am goig to propose to my friends.

Just to make sure i got the final point, you mean that if Misaki is deployed in the DZ due to the lack of Shadow Markers in play, the Mv penalty should still apply, right?

 

 

Nope. No MV penalty, because "if it does so" does not apply. It didn't do so.