How to get multiple suits in a duel

[James Parkinson]

Hi everyone.  I'm new to Malifaux and I am myself introducing new gamers to it as well.  One of them asked a question I couldn't fully answer.  Take a look at Autumn Knight.  She has "exotic weapons" and a trigger on a ram of puncture.  However two rams in the duel give a double positive flip - but how is it possible for her to get two rams? As a minion she cant use soulstones.  Thanks James

[Chris Rivers]

Autumn Knights can't on their own.   Another model might be able to give them a suite (Pandora comes to mind).  As part of the conversion from M2E to M3E, Wyrd standardized a lot of the triggers.  The same trigger will have the same wording no matter which model it is on.  So, there are other models in the game  that have the puncture trigger that can used soulstones or get extra suits.  

[solkan]

Yeah, I think that's the important point to be aware of:  Because of the standardization of wording, the same trigger wording is being used across models that can use soul stones and models that can't.  And I think there were also a lot of cases where the developers went "In the future, there may be another effect that adds suits, so it's better to cap each trigger effect now."

I mean, I don't think there's a way at the moment for any model with the Blaze Trigger to get three  in a duel, or for a model with the Puncture trigger to get three at the moment.  But both those triggers have their effects capped at 2.

[James Parkinson]

Ok, thanks for your responses.  Everything you've said makes sense.  Thanks, James..

[dzlier]

14 hours ago, solkan said:

I mean, I don't think there's a way at the moment for any model with the Blaze Trigger to get three  in a duel, or for a model with the Puncture trigger to get three at the moment.  But both those triggers have their effects capped at 2.

Yeah, though Carver could get 4 s for Critical Strike: 1 built in, flip 1 for a card, stone for 1, and Pandora gives him one.

[Regelridderen]

8 minutes ago, dzlier said:

Yeah, though Carver could get 4 s for Critical Strike: 1 built in, flip 1 for a card, stone for 1, and Pandora gives him one.

Pandora could give him three 🥳

[Dark Reaper]

15 hours ago, solkan said:

 I don't think there's a way at the moment for any model with the Blaze Trigger to get three  in a duel

Sonnia can stone, has one built in and can flip one, so it _can_ happen. 

[Adran]

16 hours ago, Chris Rivers said:

Autumn Knights can't on their own.   Another model might be able to give them a suite (Pandora comes to mind).  As part of the conversion from M2E to M3E, Wyrd standardized a lot of the triggers.  The same trigger will have the same wording no matter which model it is on.  So, there are other models in the game  that have the puncture trigger that can used soulstones or get extra suits.  

Just being picky, but every instance of a trigger has always had the same rules right back to first edition. What they did was consolidate abilities that did the same thing to have the same name. 

And I can get ryle cojo, warden and gunsmith to get three with puncture ( although 3 require soulstone cache on the model). I think the limits were added this edition because of the problems last edition when McCabe gave his sword to a pale rider...

[Morgan Vening]

On 5/27/2020 at 4:10 AM, Adran said:

Just being picky, but every instance of a trigger has always had the same rules right back to first edition. What they did was consolidate abilities that did the same thing to have the same name. 

And I can get ryle cojo, warden and gunsmith to get three with puncture ( although 3 require soulstone cache on the model). I think the limits were added this edition because of the problems last edition when McCabe gave his sword to a pale rider...

Speaking of Gunsmith, it's also possible to have impossible Target Numbers, due to the Standardization.

Perdita can hit out to the max 20" with Target Practice (with a Red Joker), but Gunsmiths can't. Yet their ability still has a 20" range.

Because it's easier to have abilities of the same name, "Oh, Target Practice? I know what that does.", than to have slight differences, especially if those differences are profound. I remember seeing this in M2E, where I'm told an ability is "like" another ability, and then the differences end up mattering in a significant way.

There's also the possibility that it's future proofing. Using the OP's example model, Titania at some point might get an Autumn Knight Henchman (go full Arthurian Green Knight), that gives Autumn Knights a Ram to all duels if within X". Or a new Neverborn Upgrade might grant Attuned (can use SS). Plenty of possibilities that might permit it to go beyond the limit, that would require errata of the Autumn Knights if they weren't written this way.