Lucius and Dashel

[Ludvig]

Can't see much talk on them like together but maybe they were discussed a lot in the beta? 

Seems like Lucius leading a few mimics and Dashel summoning something useful is a pretty fun game plan. The massive card draw should let you hit a 13 eventually. I'm stuck in my old ways and want to run them together. 

I had something like this in mind:

Lucius  Dashel Playable (Guild)
Size: 50 - Pool: 4
Leader:
  Lucius Mattheson
Totem(s):
  The Scribe
Hires:
  Agent 46
  Dashel Barker
  The Dispatcher
  Doppleganger
  Guild Lawyer
  Changeling

 

Any experience or theories? 

[solkan]

But there's one really important question that you're not addressing with this list:

• Which Guild Sergeant model is Dashel Barker now?

🤓

 

[Ludvig]

19 minutes ago, solkan said:

But there's one really important question that you're not addressing with this list:

• Which Guild Sergeant model is Dashel Barker now?

🤓

 

I'm still using the one that came in my metal Lucius box. It looks a lot like Dashel and they changed his weapon from baton to axe so now it fits perfectly. Might use the old whatever it was with a baton and add a radio backpack for my dispatcher. 

[solkan]

17 minutes ago, Ludvig said:

I'm still using the one that came in my metal Lucius box. It looks a lot like Dashel and they changed his weapon from baton to axe so now it fits perfectly. Might use the old whatever it was with a baton and add a radio backpack for my dispatcher. 

Now that you mention it, he's got the old coat back.

I think the ultimate meta thing to do is find one of the old metal Drill Sergeant models and use that for his totem.  Yeah, they both started their jobs in the same book.  Dashel got promoted to named character, henchman, and now master.  

[Ludvig]

5 minutes ago, solkan said:

Now that you mention it, he's got the old coat back.

I think the ultimate meta thing to do is find one of the old metal Drill Sergeant models and use that for his totem.  Yeah, they both started their jobs in the same book.  Dashel got promoted to named character, henchman, and now master.  

All my guard models are from 1st ed so that's the one I intend to use, I just forgot it was called drill sergeant. Thanks for that! 

[Adran]

8 minutes ago, solkan said:

Now that you mention it, he's got the old coat back.

I think the ultimate meta thing to do is find one of the old metal Drill Sergeant models and use that for his totem.  Yeah, they both started their jobs in the same book.  Dashel got promoted to named character, henchman, and now master.  

This is what I do, the old metal Guard Captain, with the old metal drill sergent continuing with his totem role.

 

 

[Myyrä]

6 minutes ago, Adran said:

This is what I do, the old metal Guard Captain, with the old metal drill sergent continuing with his totem role.

But Dashel isn't even a captain anymore! This is totally unacceptable.

[Adran]

1 minute ago, Myyrä said:

But Dashel isn't even a captain anymore! This is totally unacceptable.

I've not read the latest Faction book to know his rank. I just know that during M2E there was the eternal debate of which of these two models was really Dashel since he started off as a sergent.

That, and every time Waldo comes round to stop me doing this, I feed him an old first edition stat card, and he wonders off again before he can stop me.

[Myyrä]

8 minutes ago, Adran said:

I've not read the latest Faction book to know his rank. I just know that during M2E there was the eternal debate of which of these two models was really Dashel since he started off as a sergent.

That, and every time Waldo comes round to stop me doing this, I feed him an old first edition stat card, and he wonders off again before he can stop me.

He's now commander of the Guild Guard.

[4thstringer]

From a strategic standpoint I think they go well together.  Though I think I prefer lucius and maybe one mimic in a Daschel list.  I'm thinking Reid or a lawyer.

[Ludvig]

10 minutes ago, 4thstringer said:

From a strategic standpoint I think they go well together.  Though I think I prefer lucius and maybe one mimic in a Daschel list.  I'm thinking Reid or a lawyer.

I want the juicy cards from Lucius and mimics since guards seem to need a lot of discards without drawing much. I have thought of doing it the other way as well, would you start with a lot of big boys and summon cheaper stuff or start a bit more of the smaller stuff and hope for 12-13s? 

[Myyrä]

If I wanted to field them both in the same list, I think I would go with

Size: 50 - Pool: 5

Leader:

  Dashel Barker

Totem(s):

  The Dispatcher

Hires:

  Lucius Mattheson

  Taggart Queeg

  Executioner

  Executioner 2

  The Scribe

Although I imagine I would be wondering why I didn't bring something useful instead of Lucius. Similar list might work about equally well with Lucius as leader and Executioners replaced with mimics.

Making lists like this always makes me question why wouldn't I rather bring another master that can do something useful even if some other fragile models die. Then I start thinking why should I be playing such stupidly fragile keywords in the first place, when I could be playing Hoffman.

[4thstringer]

31 minutes ago, Ludvig said:

I want the juicy cards from Lucius and mimics since guards seem to need a lot of discards without drawing much. I have thought of doing it the other way as well, would you start with a lot of big boys and summon cheaper stuff or start a bit more of the smaller stuff and hope for 12-13s? 

I hope for 12-13 I think.  Lucius and the mimic can get me some card draw to help me get it

[explorator]

The main barrier to Dashel having an efficient summoning game is Scheme Markers, not cards; Dashel can summon useful models with 10+. I am not sold on Lucius in a two-master Guild list, but Dashel is probably his best partner. 

[Myyrä]

16 minutes ago, explorator said:

The main barrier to Dashel having an efficient summoning game is Scheme Markers, not cards; Dashel can summon useful models with 10+. I am not sold on Lucius in a two-master Guild list, but Dashel is probably his best partner. 

With the right cards his totem can create an enemy scheme marker.

[Ludvig]

27 minutes ago, explorator said:

The main barrier to Dashel having an efficient summoning game is Scheme Markers, not cards; Dashel can summon useful models with 10+. I am not sold on Lucius in a two-master Guild list, but Dashel is probably his best partner. 

The totem gives one enemy marker per turn if you draw until you hit a mask.

[explorator]

I know how his totem works, it is just pretty AP intensive and you need to be mindful of positioning; both of which are higher barriers in practice to needing a "high card".

In later turns, you can get the double benefit of summoning off of an enemy scheme marker (i.e. placed BY the opposing crew) to remove it and get a model, which is much more satisfying. I like Dashel, and I like Lucius, I am just not sold on both in a duel-master list.

[Ludvig]

@explorator

I mainly tried to get to use Lucius, my two favorite mimics lost that keyword so I'm struggling with ideas for Lucius now. Him and Dashel used to have a strong connection so I figured I will try to get back to Lucius' old theme. 

The dispatcher doesn't seem that hard to use. Walk up so your back edge is exactly 6" from a minion and zero it towards yourself, place an enemy marker for a single wound. Dashel should be within reach of that marker from his deployment zone but worst case he can walk once. The dispatcher seems more efficient than trying to hit a drop it trigger turn one. 

With Dashel I would fully expect a game of table the opponent  and scheme turn four and five. No opponent of mine would be leaving markers out against a crew containing Dashel and executioners. 

Discarding a card to focus as a zero seems like a poor ability. In a family crew the entire crew has the same aura but instead of using a zero they get any action outside of their activation and if they focus they also get a 4" push. Dashel mostly edges Perdita out in summoning and survivability, she seems to do damage a lot better.

[Adran]

6 hours ago, explorator said:

I know how his totem works, it is just pretty AP intensive and you need to be mindful of positioning; both of which are higher barriers in practice to needing a "high card".

In later turns, you can get the double benefit of summoning off of an enemy scheme marker (i.e. placed BY the opposing crew) to remove it and get a model, which is much more satisfying. I like Dashel, and I like Lucius, I am just not sold on both in a duel-master list.

It needn't be action intensive (and can potentially be providing extra advantages) so the Set up Ludvig talks about can be used on turn 1, in which you use a dispatcher action to walk, an dispatcher bonus action to move a friendly minion forwards (So helping your crew), get the enemy marker and draw a card. You then have another action to walk ready for turn 2.

in many turns you can just use the dispatcher actions to get into a place that his consolidate power action doesn't disrupt your plan.

I would be very surprised if you get to summon off a marker put down by your enemy even once per game on average.

[explorator]

Discard to focus is nice, but with Queeg you can take one damage (if near the Dispatcher, two otherwise) to gain Fast instead, which is very nice! I would suggest you need some Fast minions first turn if you intend to summon early in the game. A Fast Mounted Guard can cover a ton of space first turn, and bring another model upfield as well. Fast Executioners are a major threat.

Before the Dispatcher can turn your Scheme Marker from friendly to enemy, you need another model to spend the AP to drop it.  I have played Dashel quite a bit, and while his summon looks good on paper, in practice it is AP intensity, and NOT high cards that limits his summoning as a practical matter. Dashels summoning is not bad by any means, it is just takes more complex set up than others.

Yeah....Dashel is likely to die before he can summon off an enemy scheme marker, but when it happens it is magnificent!

[Adran]

3 minutes ago, explorator said:

Before the Dispatcher can turn your Scheme Marker from friendly to enemy, you need another model to spend the AP to drop it.  I have played Dashel quite a bit, and while his summon looks good on paper, in practice it is AP intensity, and NOT high cards that limits his summoning as a practical matter. Dashels summoning is not bad by any means, it is just takes more complex set up than others.

Yes, UNLESS you choose to count the dispatcher as a friendly scheme marker for the purpose of the consolidate power action. Although it does mean that the Dispatcher needs to be within 2" of the target before the move, which does add an extra positioning issue, but saves actions.

[4thstringer]

It helps if you think of Daschel's aura as "discard a card for reckless".  Its not as good as pure reckless, but we know how strong reckless is.

[Ludvig]

13 minutes ago, 4thstringer said:

It helps if you think of Daschel's aura as "discard a card for reckless".  Its not as good as pure reckless, but we know how strong reckless is.

That interaction requires a lot of things aligning though. Three auras all of different sizes! It also forces your entire crew to bunch up which I'm not a fan of. 

@Adran I thought you payed costs when resolving the trigger so it was after the push. 

[4thstringer]

1 minute ago, Ludvig said:

That interaction requires a lot of things aligning though. Three auras all of different sizes! It also forces your entire crew to bunch up which I'm not a fan of. 

@Adran I thought you payed costs when resolving the trigger so it was after the push. 

I do agree that the bunching up part isn't great.  It really is scheme dependent whether that is ok.  

[Michael Curran]

Honestly, if you play good opponents Dashel/Dispatcher will eat into your good cards every turn causing your flips to suffer terribly in duels.  I needed to heal other models more than the dispatcher every turn so I needed to hit those mask triggers than big flips and cheats to summon (rams) for Dashel.

The crew you fellas are tinkering with has limited survivability.  I would throw everything against ‘46’ & then either shoot you or lure you in.  Executioners ( I was told by an opponent ) are not nearly as nasty as the model looks 😕