Outcasts and Master playstyles and competitive play

[psychogeek]

Ok so I have always loved outcasts with their individuality and characters. They have always had odd ways to play and always bring the hurt. I have one problem that maybe you can all weigh in on...

Masters and their playstyle/place in competitive play.

 

I love all the outcasts masters but bringing literally the entire faction to a tournament is both highly inconvenient and impractical. What roles do each masters/crews play and their playstyle? 

These are my initial thoughts (in order of personal favorites). Also this branches into what’s competitive/strongest, but I am more interested what makes you bring them in a tournament list due to style and roles.

Tormented: Jack Daw crew is one that I find is a fairly flexible crew, balancing between a beater playstyle and control, but focusing on the “choking” denial control. If you like to see your opponent squirm in their seat with a sour look on their face, he’s a good fit. He does incredibly well with kill based pools where you can lock down your opponent’s. I feel idols is his weakest strategy due to not enough disposable health or ready healing. Guilty help a bit, but still I don’t like taking him into that scheme.

Obliteration: Tara’s crew I am only just starting into but am loving it so much. She brings a heavy disruption game and unparalleled maneuvering that is he epitome of unconventional. She is incredibly flexibly where I feel you want to avoid reckoning due to how many points you bring. You have a lot of options for the opponent to get their strat points. 

Bandits: Parker I pick more due to the scheme pool. Bandits are mobile, efficient, and pew pew! Parker is another spin on denial but this is more of a resource denial game, stealing both soulstones and cards. I feel he does fine in all strats but schemes are his strength. He can shut down marker reliant crews and scheme while excelling himself.

Plague: I am having a hard time with Plague as far as choosing them over others. Hamelin brings a very unique denial/beatdown game. Treating his models as expendable, forming a large bubble but also having high mobility in his crew, he seems to be a generalist that I can’t find why I would bring him over others except for love for the theme. Please pipe in here as he got me to play Malifaux years ago.

Amalgam: so I love the thematic of this crew and it was my #1 played in m2e. Through a bit of an attrition game, Levi kills things dead and becomes stronger for it over time. A very good crew into damage based pools and a crew that is hard to put down. Fairly flexible with decent in keyword scheme runners and plenty of damage, he primarily fails to do schemes that need your opponent still alive.. nuff said 

Freikorps: An incredibly durable crew with options for days. This crew can tackle most scenarios but I have yet to truly get the hang of them. If you like having tools for every job, even if those tools don’t look flashy on the surface, this is a great crew. They are definitely a crew suited to straight forward tactics, but having tools to change how they tackle their opponents. Strong option for reckoning due to fewer models and high survivability.

Mercenaries: The Vick’s have some cool movement tricks and really good scheme runners, and their alpha strike is one of the most dangerous in the game. This crew is highly predictable, but good at doing what it does. I don’t play them so I can’t comment much else.

Infamous: Zip... I have no idea... he funny haha... pianos.. I have the least desire to play him so I honestly can’t say much.

Edited September 27, 2019 by psychogeek

[ebolazaire]

Leveticus would like to have a word with you!

[psychogeek]

21 minutes ago, ebolazaire said:

Leveticus would like to have a word with you!

Glad you said something. I knew my count was off.

[Jkkb]

2 hours ago, psychogeek said:

Infamous: Zip... I have no idea... he funny haha... pianos.. I have the least desire to play him so I honestly can’t say much.

I find Zipp to be one of our most versatile (if no the most) master, he and his crew can do basically any strategy and scheme and do it well. Don't write him off being a joke master due to dropping pianos, he can be an incredible disruption for your opponent due to blocking LoS or charges while handing out disruption and forcing simple duels with Boring Conversation. Meanwhile the Infamous crew is very versatile in what it does. Mancha hits hard, the First Mate is maybe the best schemer in both Outcast and Bayou and you can tech in the anything else you might want from Outcasts fantastic pool of models.

[Jesy Blue]

I have a hard time not taking Zipp in every strategy, save Reckoning, for either Bayou or Outcasts. Access to a 3 SS flying significant model alone is so worth it, never mind the added bonus of dropping a scheme marker when it dies; it so easily creates Dig Their Graves scenarios.  The wrestling models bring the added condition removal that the faction as a whole are missing, and the ability to remove non-destructible markers without even a flip.  There is also the addition of more Shockwave markers, or the most shockwave markers with Merris. Bert & Gracie are a great 1-2 combo.  So many models can just move and reposition enemy models to not let them score points at key moments, and Fly With Me on The Midnight Stalker has gotten him fast on turn 1 on almost every game I've used him in with Zipp.   And the combination of Dropping Pianos and Malifaux Child copying it is why I got 15 pianos on the table at once, which with a flying crew is not a problem, but against a non-flying crew is crippling.  Whatever you need to do, Infamous can do!

Also, with Showboating, when you're losing a duel you initiated, cheat low cards out of your hand to card cycle.

And the best part is they mix with the rest of the faction wonderfullly:  add Friekorps for a full Armor & shockwave build, add Mercenaries for a total mobility crew, add Tormented to frustrate the opponent more, add Amalgam to to bring more direct killy, add Bandits to bring more oppoent hand reduction (don't add Plague.... no one likes Plague but Plague), and I don't play Tara!

Finally, if you fancy the double master thing, Zipp is the best 2nd master in the game.  His anti-interaction aura and anti-everything aura, plus his speed, concealment, and melee action that gets himself out of melee, which attacks freaking SIZE (defensive trigger your way out of that one!), plus the Pianos is an added joy.

[psychogeek]

So in regards to playstyle, is zip more of a disruption denial master with a flexible crew?

[Jesy Blue]

Very much so... there's not overlap in disruption.  Zipp does card hand disruption, wrestlers do non-sceme marker disruption, the rest of the crew does scheme marker disruption.

[Jafar]

Great Job with description, I think you missed one thing, what top masters from other players may can be countered by Outcast masters.

I don't know how big metas you have, but in my case, I can mostly predict what master my enemy will play, or at least get idea that he mains 2/3 of them. Also when we are speaking about big tournaments, mostly top players select similar things (Sandeep in AR in M2E), so knowing what can we counter is even more important.

 

[psychogeek]

14 minutes ago, Jafar said:

Great Job with description, I think you missed one thing, what top masters from other players may can be countered by Outcast masters.

I don't know how big metas you have, but in my case, I can mostly predict what master my enemy will play, or at least get idea that he mains 2/3 of them. Also when we are speaking about big tournaments, mostly top players select similar things (Sandeep in AR in M2E), so knowing what can we counter is even more important.

 

That’s fair. Tbh I haven’t had enough variety in opponents yet to be able to speak from experience. We have all been focusing on like 2 masters each and some people haven’t been playing regularly making certain factions a bit more rare to face. 

I for me, I won’t play daw into arcanists, but I love parker into that matchup, no guild with Tara, and no neverborn or ten thunders with parker. The rest I don’t know

[Jesy Blue]

14 minutes ago, psychogeek said:

That’s fair. Tbh I haven’t had enough variety in opponents yet to be able to speak from experience. We have all been focusing on like 2 masters each and some people haven’t been playing regularly making certain factions a bit more rare to face. 

I for me, I won’t play daw into arcanists, but I love parker into that matchup, no guild with Tara, and no neverborn or ten thunders with parker. The rest I don’t know

I have play Ressers 4 times lifetime and Guild 3 lifetime, where I've had hundreds of games vs the other 5 factions.

When I play against Outcast, my go to is condition heavy Brewmaster because that's our weakness.

[psychogeek]

33 minutes ago, Jesy Blue said:

I have play Ressers 4 times lifetime and Guild 3 lifetime, where I've had hundreds of games vs the other 5 factions.

When I play against Outcast, my go to is condition heavy Brewmaster because that's our weakness.

Yeah and lack of ruthless. If I gave outcasts daw is my go to.

[TheJoyInGaming]

1 minute ago, psychogeek said:

Yeah and lack of ruthless. If I gave outcasts daw is my go to.

 

35 minutes ago, Jesy Blue said:

I have play Ressers 4 times lifetime and Guild 3 lifetime, where I've had hundreds of games vs the other 5 factions.

When I play against Outcast, my go to is condition heavy Brewmaster because that's our weakness.

The Freikorps have access to a decent amount of Ruthless and Condition removal...

[psychogeek]

30 minutes ago, TheJoyInGaming said:

 

The Freikorps have access to a decent amount of Ruthless and Condition removal...

The only ruthless they have are their basic minion, and their condition removal is limited. Other factions have more ways to deal with conditions than outcasts do. Definitely not terrible, but it’s something we have to deal with.

[TheJoyInGaming]

2 minutes ago, psychogeek said:

The only ruthless they have are their basic minion, and their condition removal is limited. Other factions have more ways to deal with conditions than outcasts do. Definitely not terrible, but it’s something we have to deal with.

I think you may be shortchanging the Freikorps a bit here.

The Freikorpsmann may be the only ones with Ruthless, but they can be augmented with upgrades, such as the Rocket Launcher, and be made to use that during Von Schill's activation. Not bad for a 5SS model that you can take multiple of. Side note: Those Rocket Launcher blasts are also good at getting around having to target Terrifying models.

About the condition removal, I think it more correct to describe theirs as specialized rather than limited. Von Schill can remove any condition with Shrug Off. The Steam Trunk can remove Burning or Poison within 2" with no flip required. Hannah can remove any condition from a friendly within 8" whilst using one of their tactical actions. The Freikorps Specialist can remove Distracted, Slow, and Staggered within a pulse of 10"(!) on friendlies for only a 4+. 

[Jesy Blue]

... and that's 1 specific build of one keyword in the faction, so if you don't declare Von Schill, Arik, or Hannah as your leader when I say Brewmaster, good luck fielding all that out of keyword tech.

[TheJoyInGaming]

2 minutes ago, Jesy Blue said:

... and that's 1 specific build of one keyword in the faction, so if you don't declare Von Schill, Arik, or Hannah as your leader when I say Brewmaster, good luck fielding all that out of keyword tech.

Not much of a “build” when two of the models mentioned are the Master and Totem of a Keyword. That is like saying only certain “builds” of Tara support summoning. It is kind of built into how the Keyword is supposed to work. 

I could also declare Hamelin, and then hire Nix and Ashes and Dust for 3 Nihilism models, and just not gain any conditions on them. Hiring 1 OOK model for Hamelin is also not a “build” btw.

I could also hire Johan for more condition removal in any crew. Given all of this I don’t think your condition strat is all foolproof as it reads.

[Jesy Blue]

Nihilism is no longer awesome; a card discarded for every instance is terrible when I'm giving out Poison, Burning, Slow, Staggered, and Stunned, sometimes multiple conditions multiple times an activation per model.

And yes, by all means, go for that 5+ on the Enforcer, how often does that work, especially when you are ditching your hand for Nihilism.

Its a weakness the faction has, especially when you see the casual ease other factions have for condition removal; acknowledge it and move on.

[Zebo]

Condition removal and lack of Ruthkess is, indeed, a Outcast weakness.

This discussion comes around sometimes. 

And every time it returns, I'm glad of playing Freikorps almost by defect. 

Yes, Freikorpsmann is the only model with Ruthless, but also is one of two models that can do damage 7 on ranged attacks. 

Also Freikorps are the kings of blasts and shockwaves in Outcast, so they don't need to target a Manipulative/ Terrifying model to damage it.

And they are the best crew to remove conditions in Outcast.

So happy with that xD.

[TheJoyInGaming]

30 minutes ago, Jesy Blue said:

Nihilism is no longer awesome; a card discarded for every instance is terrible when I'm giving out Poison, Burning, Slow, Staggered, and Stunned, sometimes multiple conditions multiple times an activation per model.

I guess it is a shame that I can’t hire a Specialist OOK to take care of the Slow, Staggered, and Distracted the Brewmaster puts out. Oh wait...

I guess it is a shame that Coughing Fit can’t be used to supplement Nihilism to prevent all the slow tests and Poison pulses that the Brewmaster can put out to save my hand. Oh wait...

I also saw you ignored the critique on you pointing out the “build” issue of the Freikorps. 

Again, you overstate this weakness.

Edit: Tara has Scion of the Void and also her crew also can end the Fast condition.

Edit 2: Hamelin can have his Vermin take the general Assist action with Unclean Influence, or they could just do it themselves too.

So that makes 3 crews with some form of Condition removal...

Edited September 27, 2019 by TheJoyInGaming

[Jesy Blue]

I don't know why you're getting so hot about this issue, so I'm just gonna drop it.

You're right, I'm wrong, you win, I will work harder.

[Deathinabox]

I think his point was that we have less easy access to it, not that it doesn't exist. Ressurs have bone piles and nurses. Thunders have tanuki. Arcanists have their effigy. Bayou have wrastlers, neverborn have bultungin and guild have the steward. All of those are more efficient than anything we have in outcasts and are widely available for any crew to use without losing much efficiency.

[Deathinabox]

Oh and on the actual topic, Leveti us is great into Arcanists due to how common reduction abilities are in that faction. He's not good into Ressers did to their high wound counts, hard to wound, healing, and easy access to lantern of souls and execute

[S4lt]

So what are people running into Ressers? They are the faction I'm having the most trouble with.

[Davos]

Parker or Schill into Rezzers been my go-to currently

[Jesy Blue]

I don't have enough experience vs ressers to pick a keyword, but the two games I did have (Molly & McMourning) I coincidently took Viktorias (they were both Turf War) and pulled a 1 point victory out of it both times.