"Not a Bomb" Shockwave

[LeperColony]

This question regards Angelica Durand's ability "Suddenly Doves," specifically the  trigger "Not a Bomb"

The trigger states:
 

"When resolving, after Dropping the Shockwave Markers, choose one Dropped Shockwave Marker.  Drop a Scheme Marker into base contact with the Shockwave Marker, then remove the Shockwave Marker."

So my question is, does the Shockwave happen?  Or is the Shockwave marker removed before the Shockwave occurs?

Under "when resolving" timing (page 12), it says "Any new effects are resolved last, unless the Trigger specifies otherwise."

In this case, the trigger specifies it happens "after dropping" the markers.  The rules for shockwave (page 31) say that "The Dropped Marker generates a equal to the Shockwave's value." but it doesn't specify when this happens.

I see two possible scenarios:

1)  The shockwave marker is dropped and immediately spawns its shockwave.  Then a Scheme marker is put into base contact and the Shockwave marker is removed.  

The reasoning here is that the trigger effect happens "last," and so because the shockwave is a consequence of the Shockwave marker dropping, it occurs before the trigger.

2)  The Scheme marker "replaces" the Shockwave marker before the shockwave occurs.  

This reasoning being that the trigger's full effect occurs after dropping the markers but before resolving the shockwave.  Also, the trigger's name seems to imply an intention to negate the shockwave, but I don't know how much credence to lend to ability/trigger names.

[Jesy Blue]

According to the timing chart on page 35 (Activation Phase C. 2. e.), resolves action in the order they appear on the card, specifically including When Reolving triggers.

[Adran]

I would say it's 2. It's a when resolving after you drop the shockwave. So it will be before the shockwave pulse happens. 

[trikk]

The trigger name also suggests that.

[LeperColony]

23 minutes ago, trikk said:

The trigger name also suggests that.

I did indicate that as a reason to support option 2, though I think it's probably questionable to rely on ability and trigger names to resolve rules issues.  And, at any rate, even the base ability is "not a bomb" in that conceptually the ability generates an effect that confuses rather than harms people (does distract instead of damage).

[santaclaws01]

4 hours ago, Jesy Blue said:

According to the timing chart on page 35 (Activation Phase C. 2. e.), resolves action in the order they appear on the card, specifically including When Reolving triggers.

Unless they give a more specific timing, which Not A Bomb does.

[Jesy Blue]

Wait wait wait.... you're trying to claim that a When Resolving trigger occurs at a different point than the rulebook tells you a When Resolving trigger occurs because of wording that occurs AFTER the literal words, When Resolving?

You're killing me, Smalls....

[LeperColony]

1 hour ago, Jesy Blue said:

Wait wait wait.... you're trying to claim that a When Resolving trigger occurs at a different point than the rulebook tells you a When Resolving trigger occurs because of wording that occurs AFTER the literal words, When Resolving?

You're killing me, Smalls....

I'm actually not sure why that's so controversial.  The wording for When Resolving timing (page 12) itself says:

"Any new effects are resolved last, unless the trigger specifies otherwise."

It seems inevitable that anything the trigger "specifies otherwise" will come after the words When Resolving, since "When Resolving" is timing and will go at the beginning, immediately after costs.

Thus, to change the timing of a When Resolving to anything other than last, it has to come from text following When Resolving.

[solkan]

1 hour ago, Jesy Blue said:

Wait wait wait.... you're trying to claim that a When Resolving trigger occurs at a different point than the rulebook tells you a When Resolving trigger occurs because of wording that occurs AFTER the literal words, When Resolving?

If you're looking at the sentence:

Quote

Resolve effects in the order presented on the card, including any When Resolving Triggers.

then you've encountered one of the situations where the "Detailed Timing" chart is summarizing rules.

Because that sentence is summarizing, among other things, two paragraphs of text (Step 5: Apply Results), and the paragraph of text that is the "When Resolving" trigger rules.

That one sentence in the chart isn't trying to tell you specifically how to resolve this trigger:

Quote

Burst Damage: When resolving, the target suffers + damage.

or

Quote

Chimera Strike: When resolving, the target suffers +1 damage for every two Mutation Upgrades Attached to this model or friendly models within 2" (to a maximum of +2).

or event:

Quote

Frozen Domain: When resolving, Create an Ice Pillar Marker anywhere within range.

For the specifics, you have to consult the specific rules.  All that sentence in the Detailed Timing chart is doing (all it can do) is reminding players that the When Resolving triggers are resolved during that step.

 

[santaclaws01]

2 hours ago, Jesy Blue said:

Wait wait wait.... you're trying to claim that a When Resolving trigger occurs at a different point than the rulebook tells you a When Resolving trigger occurs because of wording that occurs AFTER the literal words, When Resolving?

You're killing me, Smalls....

No, I'm telling you that the rules for When Resolving triggers state to resolve effects last unless a specific timing is given. A specific timing is given for not a bomb, so according to the rules of When Resolving triggers, it resolves at the specific timing and not last.

[LeperColony]

31 minutes ago, santaclaws01 said:

No, I'm telling you that the rules for When Resolving triggers state to resolve effects last unless a specific timing is given. A specific timing is given for not a bomb, so according to the rules of When Resolving triggers, it resolves at the specific timing and not last.

Well, except the issue is the rules don't say when the shockwave resolves.  So the question isn't "does Not a Bomb define a timing," which it does by saying after a marker is dropped.  But rather, whether that timing happens before other things that happen when the marker is dropped.

Under normal circumstances:

1.  Put down shockwave marker

2.  Do shockwave.

 

You're presuming that the trigger creates a window between 1 and 2, which certainly may be true.

1.  Put down shockwave marker.

2.  Do trigger

3.  Do shockwave

 

But I don't know that anything in the trigger tells you you resolve it before.  They even both key off the same event, a "dropped" marker.  Since the trigger changes (or adds to) the behavior of a dropped marker, I'm inclined to agree that it supercedes the , but I'm not sure I agree with your claim that the "specific timing" given for Not a Bomb specifically indicates it goes first.

[Kadeton]

31 minutes ago, LeperColony said:

You're presuming that the trigger creates a window between 1 and 2, which certainly may be true.

I think that's a pretty solid argument for the "before shockwave" timing, honestly. If your timing looks like this:

1. Drop Shockwave marker
2. Resolve Shockwave pulse

then in order for something to happen in between those two steps, you would have to refer to that timing as "After dropping the Shockwave marker" or "Before resolving the Shockwave pulse". The second of those would have been much clearer, but that doesn't make the first less precise.

Following that to its conclusion, if Not A Bomb had been intended to resolve after the Shockwave pulse, its timing would presumably have been specified as "After resolving the Shockwave's pulse" or similar (or equally, "Before removing the Shockwave marker").

[LeperColony]

37 minutes ago, Kadeton said:

I think that's a pretty solid argument for the "before shockwave" timing, honestly. If your timing looks like this:

1. Drop Shockwave marker
2. Resolve Shockwave pulse

then in order for something to happen in between those two steps, you would have to refer to that timing as "After dropping the Shockwave marker" or "Before resolving the Shockwave pulse". The second of those would have been much clearer, but that doesn't make the first less precise.

Following that to its conclusion, if Not A Bomb had been intended to resolve after the Shockwave pulse, its timing would presumably have been specified as "After resolving the Shockwave's pulse" or similar (or equally, "Before removing the Shockwave marker").

Why isn't this governed by the Sequential Effects rule on page 34?  It also has a heading for simultaneous effects.

"Sometimes, an effect will create additional effects as it resolves."

1.  Drop Shockwave marker

2.  either do "Not a Bomb" or do

Either way it's a sequential, isn't it?  And if it is, then shouldn't the sequential rule govern, which states "fully resolve the initial effect before moving onto any additional effect.  Additional effects are resolved in the order they were generated, after any effects which had been previously generated resolve." (emphasis mine)

 

Or alternatively, it could be a simultaneous effect, in which case the active player gets to choose.

 

Or, as a third alternative, the trigger When Resolving timing could somehow mean that:

1.  Drop shockwave marker

2.  Do "Not a Bomb" even though it was an additional effect and it was generated second

3.  Do

 

Unless of course the rules for sequential effects are only meant to govern all the effects of a single ability, excluding triggers.  Which may be possible, but seems a little off somehow?

 

Although, I just realized that fully resolving the shockwave would make the marker disappear before the scheme marker would be placed, and that doesn't seem correct either.

[Kadeton]

4 minutes ago, LeperColony said:

Why isn't this governed by the Sequential Effects rule on page 34?

In my opinion? Intent, and convention.

The non-standard timing of effects has to be specified in relation to the "normal" sequence of events. In general, they are not simultaneous with any steps in that normal sequence, but occur in the spaces between them. Occurring after something that normally happens implies occurring before the next thing that normally happens.

I don't think there are any hard-and-fast rules that specify that, though.

[LeperColony]

24 minutes ago, Kadeton said:

In my opinion? Intent, and convention.

That's fair.  I guess I associate things like "response windows," which is more or less what you proposed as a logical framework a few posts ago, with CCGs and the like.  Those kinds of games have more rigorous rules for timing (and costs, hah) than most wargames.  

 

This may actually be a rule worth a clear FAQ though, because there are probably multiple triggers with this dilemma.

[Kadeton]

50 minutes ago, LeperColony said:

This may actually be a rule worth a clear FAQ though, because there are probably multiple triggers with this dilemma.

Yes, I agree. I think we've come a long way in clearing up the game's timing structure, but there's always going to be some weird edge cases that need further clarification, and this is one instance where a direct "It works like this" answer would be very helpful.

[LeperColony]

6 hours ago, Kadeton said:

Yes, I agree. I think we've come a long way in clearing up the game's timing structure, but there's always going to be some weird edge cases that need further clarification, and this is one instance where a direct "It works like this" answer would be very helpful.

Well, and also if I were an event organizer or judge, I wouldn't feel great about having to give a "that's just not how we've ever played it" or "that's not what I think they meant" kind of answer, especially in the face of a rules citation (like sequential/simultaneous effects) that would otherwise have a fair claim to covering the situation.

In my opinion, what they intended to do was essentially a Replace-like effect, just with markers instead of models.  But because this kind of effect may not be uncommon, they might want to consider a Substitute rule (or whatever) that is Replace for markers.

[santaclaws01]

8 hours ago, LeperColony said:

Why isn't this governed by the Sequential Effects rule on page 34?  It also has a heading for simultaneous effects.

"Sometimes, an effect will create additional effects as it resolves."

1.  Drop Shockwave marker

2.  either do "Not a Bomb" or do

Either way it's a sequential, isn't it?  And if it is, then shouldn't the sequential rule govern, which states "fully resolve the initial effect before moving onto any additional effect.  Additional effects are resolved in the order they were generated, after any effects which had been previously generated resolve." (emphasis mine)

 

A strict reading of sequential would do the Not A Bomb before the pulse, since the pulse effect isn't generated until after the shockwave marker is placed, but the effect of Not A Bomd is generated when the trigger is declared.

[LeperColony]

28 minutes ago, santaclaws01 said:

A strict reading of sequential would do the Not A Bomb before the pulse, since the pulse effect isn't generated until after the shockwave marker is placed, but the effect of Not A Bomd is generated when the trigger is declared.

Not necessarily.  The shockwave is a consequence of the shockwave marker, which came from the "Suddenly, Doves" ability which occurred before "Not a Bomb" by necessity, since the latter is a trigger of the former.  Thus under that logic, you should resolve the shockwave first, since it came from the earlier effect.

Second, "Not a Bomb" requires the shockwave markers exist in order for its ability to make any sense.  Hence, whatever created the markers must have occurred first, and therefore should be resolved first.

Third, it's not actually clear what "generated" means. 

1)  It could mean "activated," in the sense that whichever occurred first in the real-life sequence of events is treated as having been generated first.

2)  It could mean "happened" in the sense that whichever should occur first under the timing rules of the game is treated as having been generated first.  But that wouldn't help here since which should happen first is the question.

Fourth, "Not a Bomb" specifies it happens "after" shockwave markers have dropped, not "when the trigger is declared."  That just recalls the central question of this thread, because the ambiguity comes from uncertainty regarding when the shockwave markers generate their shockwave.

Because I've come to think a Replace-like effect is the intention, what's needed is a clarification/rule that governs such substitutions.  That rule would supersede normal timing, which may not be structured in such a way to adequately resolve these types of situations.    

[santaclaws01]

1 hour ago, LeperColony said:

Not necessarily.  The shockwave is a consequence of the shockwave marker, which came from the "Suddenly, Doves" ability which occurred before "Not a Bomb" by necessity, since the latter is a trigger of the former.  Thus under that logic, you should resolve the shockwave first, since it came from the earlier effect.

 

The action generates a shockwave marker. The shockwave marker generates the pulse. The action itself doesn't generate the pulse.

1 hour ago, LeperColony said:

Second, "Not a Bomb" requires the shockwave markers exist in order for its ability to make any sense.  Hence, whatever created the markers must have occurred first, and therefore should be resolved first.

And it does resolve first. Just because an effect is generated at a certain time doesn't mean it needs to be resolved at that exact moment. The trigger is the first effect generated by the action, but since it's resolution is based on something else happening first, it waits until that thing happens to occur.

1 hour ago, LeperColony said:

Third, it's not actually clear what "generated" means. 

 

It's pretty clear. Effects are generated when a whatever effect generates them is used/declared/w.e In 90% of cases generation and resolution happen at the same time.

1 hour ago, LeperColony said:

2)  It could mean "happened" in the sense that whichever should occur first under the timing rules of the game is treated as having been generated first.  But that wouldn't help here since which should happen first is the question.

No, because that's resolving the effect.

1 hour ago, LeperColony said:

Fourth, "Not a Bomb" specifies it happens "after" shockwave markers have dropped, not "when the trigger is declared."

Not relevant, it's still generated before the pulse is.

[LeperColony]

4 minutes ago, santaclaws01 said:

The action generates a shockwave marker. The shockwave marker generates the pulse. The action itself doesn't generate the pulse.

The action did generate the pulse because it generated the shockwave marker and the pulse is an integral part of the marker.  

For instance, if an action with a shockwave had the following trigger:

"If this action kills an enemy model, this model heals 2"

Nobody would ever argue the model doesn't heal 2 on the basis that "the action didn't kill, the shockwave did and the action itself didn't generate the pulse."

That would just be ludicrous.

7 minutes ago, santaclaws01 said:

And it does resolve first. Just because an effect is generated at a certain time doesn't mean it needs to be resolved at that exact moment. The trigger is the first effect generated by the action, but since it's resolution is based on something else happening first, it waits until that thing happens to occur.

If it resolves first, then the shockwave should happen.  The trigger "waits until" the shockwave marker drops to occur.  

The issue is no rule governs precisely when the shockwave marker produces its shockwave.  

9 minutes ago, santaclaws01 said:

It's pretty clear. Effects are generated when a whatever effect generates them is used/declared/w.e In 90% of cases generation and resolution happen at the same time.

No, it's not clear.  Which is demonstrated by the fact that you're combining used/declared/w.e. into one amorphous phase, when the reality is "used" and "declared" are not necessarily the same thing and that's before whatever "w.e." is meant to cover.

In fact, because due to timing rules, an effect can happen "before" or "after" it was triggered in the real life sequence of events.

For instance, a After Succeeding trigger occurs after it is declared.  It can spawn effects before it even takes effects, which would be resolved before it is.

Example:

Model A has an ability "After declaring a trigger, this model draws a card."  This ability clearly occurs "in real life" after a trigger has happened, but it is resolved before a trigger with certain timings.

16 minutes ago, santaclaws01 said:

No, because that's resolving the effect.

An effect that is resolving must, by definition, also have been generated because there was a time before which it did not exist.  Therefore, generated may refer either to:

1.  When whatever brought the effed into play occurs in real life.

2.  When the effect happens in the game.

It may even mean both those things, potentially.

18 minutes ago, santaclaws01 said:

Not relevant, it's still generated before the pulse is.

Since no rule states when a dropped shockwave marker generates a shockwave, I'd be interested the citation that inspires your unqualified declaration.

[Adran]

Resolving a shockwave boils down to 3 steps.( I know the rules don't spell this out specifically but it has to go like this. )

1 Place the shockwave marker.

2 do the effects from the marker. This may have several substeps, because you do it for each model affected.

3 remove the shockwave marker.

The trigger must come after step 1. It must happen before step 3. Step 2 isn't mentioned in the timing step of the trigger, so it should happen after step 1 and before step2, because happening after step 2 should mean step 2 should be mentioned in the timing. 

[LeperColony]

5 hours ago, Adran said:

Resolving a shockwave boils down to 3 steps.( I know the rules don't spell this out specifically but it has to go like this. )

1 Place the shockwave marker.

2 do the effects from the marker. This may have several substeps, because you do it for each model affected.

3 remove the shockwave marker.

The trigger must come after step 1. It must happen before step 3. Step 2 isn't mentioned in the timing step of the trigger, so it should happen after step 1 and before step2, because happening after step 2 should mean step 2 should be mentioned in the timing. 

I think this is how it works too.  But I also think it's something worth clarifying in the next official FAQ, especially because there's probably an entire class of these Replace-like effects and they should probably all be clearly and consistently defined.

[santaclaws01]

9 hours ago, LeperColony said:

The action did generate the pulse because it generated the shockwave marker and the pulse is an integral part of the marker.  

For instance, if an action with a shockwave had the following trigger:

"If this action kills an enemy model, this model heals 2"

Nobody would ever argue the model doesn't heal 2 on the basis that "the action didn't kill, the shockwave did and the action itself didn't generate the pulse."

That would just be ludicrous.

Those aren't the same thing. The shockwave is the action yes, and so is the pulse. But that doesn't mean the action itself is what generates the pulse.

9 hours ago, LeperColony said:

If it resolves first, then the shockwave should happen.  The trigger "waits until" the shockwave marker drops to occur.  

What exactly is your point here? The shockwave drops first because the trigger can't happen until the shockwave does. 

9 hours ago, LeperColony said:

No, it's not clear.  Which is demonstrated by the fact that you're combining used/declared/w.e. into one amorphous phase, when the reality is "used" and "declared" are not necessarily the same thing and that's before whatever "w.e." is meant to cover.

I say used/declared/w.e because there are different things which can generate effects and the termonology for those various things happening is different. Actions and triggers are declared. Abilities are used. Some people also like to say abilities are triggered if they're conditional. There's no single term for all that. There is however a single term for an effect being made, and that's generated.

9 hours ago, LeperColony said:

In fact, because due to timing rules, an effect can happen "before" or "after" it was triggered in the real life sequence of events.

No, it can't. A effect could never actually resolve before it's generated.

9 hours ago, LeperColony said:

For instance, a After Succeeding trigger occurs after it is declared.  It can spawn effects before it even takes effects, which would be resolved before it is.

This doesn't mean that effects it is generating are resolved before said effects are generated.

9 hours ago, LeperColony said:

Example:

Model A has an ability "After declaring a trigger, this model draws a card."  This ability clearly occurs "in real life" after a trigger has happened, but it is resolved before a trigger with certain timings.

Effect is generated during the Declare Triggers step. Effect resolves at the end of the Declare Triggers step. Effect is generated and then resolves after it has been generated. Just because a trigger being declared would generate two separate effects doesn't mean that if one of those effects resolves before the other one that it has now resolved an effects before said effect was generated.

9 hours ago, LeperColony said:

An effect that is resolving must, by definition, also have been generated because there was a time before which it did not exist.  Therefore, generated may refer either to:

1.  When whatever brought the effed into play occurs in real life.

2.  When the effect happens in the game.

So you're just immediately contradicting your last point. Also this is dubious logic at best.

9 hours ago, LeperColony said:

Since no rule states when a dropped shockwave marker generates a shockwave, I'd be interested the citation that inspires your unqualified declaration.

How can one effect generate another effect what that first effect hasn't itself been generated yet? The absolute earliest timing that a shockwave marker can generate the pulse is when it's placed. The absolute earliest that the pulse generated by the shockwave can actually resolve is after all shockwave markers for the action have been placed.

[LeperColony]

12 hours ago, santaclaws01 said:

Those aren't the same thing. The shockwave is the action yes, and so is the pulse. But that doesn't mean the action itself is what generates the pulse.

"The shockwave is the action."  QED.

12 hours ago, santaclaws01 said:

What exactly is your point here? The shockwave drops first because the trigger can't happen until the shockwave does. 

You said "it" [the "Suddenly, Doves" action] resolves first.  Then the shockwave markers go down first.  And the issue becomes when does the shockwave marker produce the .

Nothing in the rules indicates when the marker produces the shockwave.  And nothing in When Resolving, or the text of "Not a Bomb" itself, explicitly requires it happen before the .

In fact, because the rules indicate the shockwave marker remains in play until the action is "fully resolved," it's entirely logically consistent to say the happens, then the trigger happens, then the marker is removed.

I'm really not sure why this needs repeating so often, but the fact that it does, and the fact that you consistently fail to address it indicates further discussion is probably pointless.

12 hours ago, santaclaws01 said:

No, it can't. A effect could never actually resolve before it's generated.

This very well could be true.  I was speaking a bit imprecisely here, but I meant timing rules in general do permit the construction of an order of events that conflicts with the real-life sequence of events.

LIFO timing card games are based on this principle, for instance.

I don't know if "cancel" type abilities are a thing in 3E (haven't deep dove into the model cards yet), but if cancel does exist as a concept, one possible timing framework is to have the cancellation ability fire "first," as in games like Magic.

12 hours ago, santaclaws01 said:

So you're just immediately contradicting your last point. Also this is dubious logic at best.

No, I'm restating language I used earlier in the thread.  In fact, in virtually the exact same words (scroll up and look for the orange bits).  That this escaped you is an other indication that further discussion is likely fruitless.

It's also curious that you find the idea that "something which happens must have been generated by something that exists" dubious, but since you do I'm not sure we can establish a universal frame of reference that makes comparisons possible. 

12 hours ago, santaclaws01 said:

How can one effect generate another effect what that first effect hasn't itself been generated yet? The absolute earliest timing that a shockwave marker can generate the pulse is when it's placed. The absolute earliest that the pulse generated by the shockwave can actually resolve is after all shockwave markers for the action have been placed.

We know the earliest the can occur, so no clue what made you restate it.  The issue is, no rule actually defines that you resolve the trigger before the .  The rules for When Resolving don't address when the occurs (of course), the sequential and simultaneous rules, if they controlled, would allow the active player to choose.  

You can avoid this all day, it doesn't change it.

I personally believe the intention is for the scheme marker to prevent the from occurring, for the same reasons @Kadeton mentioned.  But because I see this as a kind of "Replace" style effect, and as I'm sure there are others like it, I think a similar rule for markers should be considered.

But a fully consistent reading of the rules is for the to happen first.  Since the shockwave marker remains in play until the action is "fully resolved," you could then resolve the trigger.

Since further movement from these positions seems unlikely, I think I'm just going to consider this topic talked out.

 

[Adran]

6 minutes ago, LeperColony said:

You said "it" [the "Suddenly, Doves" action] resolves first.  Then the shockwave markers go down first.  And the issue becomes when does the shockwave marker produce the .

Nothing in the rules indicates when the marker produces the shockwave.  And nothing in When Resolving, or the text of "Not a Bomb" itself, explicitly requires it happen before the .

In fact, because the rules indicate the shockwave marker remains in play until the action is "fully resolved," it's entirely logically consistent to say the happens, then the trigger happens, then the marker is removed.

I'm really not sure why this needs repeating so often, but the fact that it does, and the fact that you consistently fail to address it indicates further discussion is probably pointless.

Well I would say the rules do indicate when the shockwave marker produces the pulse. It does so in a time period following the marker being dropped and before the marker is removed for the shockwave being fully resolved.

The Dropped Marker generates a  equal to the Shockwave’s value

 Is what is written on page 31.

I am fully comfortable that the process is

Step 1. Drop all shockwave markers

Step 2. Resolve the shockwave pulse for each model affected (according to the simultaneous effects rules)

Step 3. Remove the shockwave marker.

Its written slightly strangely in that it goes  "you start by dropping the marker, and at the end you remove the marker. Then in-between that do the pulse and then the duels for the models the pulse touches". (Parpharasing but everyone can go and read the actual text, and it appears to me that it may be what is confusing people, so I'd rather include my paraphrase of the timings)

 

The timing of "After" is  (Page 34)

Ability Timing
Most Abilities are passive and always in effect, but some occur as a result of another game effect. In these cases, the Ability will use the word “After.” These Abilities happen after the effect in question is resolved.

So "after dropping a shockwave marker" happens, unsurprisingly, after you drop the shockwave marker. You're right the rules don't actually specify that they are straight after before anything else, but I do think that that is a reasonable assumption to follow that they interrupt the normal flow of the action just following the point that caused them to happen (in this case dropping the shockwave marker) rather than just a random time after the point that caused them to happen.

Because the generation of the pulse is not written as an after effect, it is not generated by the dropping of the marker. It is just something that happens next. This is why the window between step 1 and 2 for the trigger will exist.

You can read the text in sequential effects that way to make it work as I wrote above. Or you can read it in a way where the trigger does nothing. (Either each of the steps I listed is its own effect for the purposes of resolving it for sequential effects so you have to resolve the trigger after the marker is dropped but before the pulse, or you have to resolve the action as a whole, before you get to do the trigger, by which time the shockwave marker is already removed so you can't place a scheme marker next to it).

 

But I do agree that the discussion is going nowhere, partially because I think everyone actually agrees with how this interaction is meant to go, and the debate is largely over how to get there.

The text of "Not a bomb" needs to be as such because it is not just a trigger on Angelica, its also a trigger on Merris who is capable of dropping up to 4 shockwave markers in the action as well as declaring the trigger.  (Which is why you couldn't just write it as a straight action replacement effect because for Merris it isn't. There are some triggers which do completely re-write the action, which Angelica's could, but we would still be having this discussion for Merris so it wouldn't help).