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WWHSD

Common Sandeep Mistakes.

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I dropped this list in a reply in another thread. It was a little outside the scope of that thread so I figured that I'd start a new thread instead of derailing the other one.

I created this list based on mistakes that I've made, seen others make, or seen come up in discussion. I think there are a number of common mistakes that get made with Sandeep and some of the models and upgrades that are typically in his crew. It feels like some of the "OMG, Sandeep is broken BS" sentiment stems from games where one or more of mistakes are made which ends up resulting in Sandeep being better than he actually is. With Sandeep being a strong master to begin with, any abilities that are getting misplayed definitely have the potential to push into "broken" territory. 

Front of the card stuff:
- Actions from upgrade cards can't be used through Beacon.
- Each of Sandeep's 4 Ca actions can only be used through beacon once per turn.
- A single model my take more than one action via Beacon but they each must be different actions.

- Sandeep needs to discard for his free AP and can only do it once per turn.
- Beacon requires LoS to Sandeep  (Sandeep can take an upgrade to allow Academics to Beacon without LoS).

Back of the card stuff:
- Sandeep's place can't place a model inside terrain.
- Only Academics and Minions can use Sandeep's place.

Upgrade stuff:
- Sandeep can't make himself Incorporeal.
- Sandeep's abilities that allow him to damage himself for cards or to allow Academics to not randomize when shooting targets near him come from actions on an upgrade card. They are not "always on" abilities. 
- Action Through Inaction doesn't trigger when Sandeep is the Academic that discards.
- If you've got a Banasuva on the table, you can't summon a new one to sacrifice the old one. (He's Rare 1, and the totem sacrifice happens after he's summoned) .

Typical crew stuff:
- Mages need to discard a card from your hand in addition to Temporary Shielding. It doesn't work like Imbued Armor.
- Warding Runes requires LoS to each Mage to get their associated ability.
- All Academics have abilities that require card discard. If you've got a lot of Academics in your crew that are doing a bunch of cool shit but still have cards in your hand there's a good chance you are doing something wrong. 
- The Mage with Nemesis Ward only gets his extra  +
:tome  to the Elemental Bolt attack action. For any other Ca action he gets the same number of +:tome as any of the other Mages would.
- The Mage with Blood Ward only gets :melee2 added to Elemental Bolt after he becomes engaged. He needs to charge as if he only had :melee1 attacks and does not engage models with a 1 inch engagement range from outside of 1 inch (unless a second enemy model is engaged with the Mage).



Are there other common misplayed abilities or actions that you've come across playing (or playing against) Sandeep? 

 

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4 minutes ago, WWHSD said:


- Sandeep needs to take an action to be able to damage himself for cards or to allow Academics to not randomize when shooting targets near him.
 

I dont understand this one. Can you elaborate please?

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16 minutes ago, Franchute said:

I dont understand this one. Can you elaborate please?

"Action Though Inaction" and "The Sight Beyond" are both actions that need to be taken and not abilities that are always on. It's obvious when you are looking at the cards but Sandeep has so much stuff going on that sometimes it's easy to forget.

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I added the stuff that other folks have mentioned and kind of organized the list a little bit.

 

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Super niche mage ruling:

The mage 2" 'close' attack mode from the mage upgrade is only while that mage is engaged. Therefore it cannot engage < 1" engage models from 2" away.  It also cannot chage a model exactly 8" away (as far as I understand).

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3 hours ago, Euclid said:

Super niche mage ruling:

The mage 2" 'close' attack mode from the mage upgrade is only while that mage is engaged. Therefore it cannot engage < 1" engage models from 2" away.  It also cannot chage a model exactly 8" away (as far as I understand).

Dang, nice catch. I had been playing that upgrade as if it just added 2:meleeto the Elemental Bolt attack action.

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On 2/16/2018 at 5:30 AM, Euclid said:

Super niche mage ruling:

The mage 2" 'close' attack mode from the mage upgrade is only while that mage is engaged. Therefore it cannot engage < 1" engage models from 2" away.  It also cannot chage a model exactly 8" away (as far as I understand).

Yup, need to be 7" away with a charge of 6.

digital rulebook, pg. 39:
"(2) Charge: Target a model within LoS. Move this model up to its Cg in a straight line. This model must end the move with the target model within its engagement range or this Action may not be taken. This model then takes two Range :melee Attack Actions against the target model. Each of these Actions must have an AP cost of 1. A model may not declare this Action if it is engaged (see Engagement, pg. 48) or if it has a Cg of “—”."

I don't need a 1 AP :melee to take a charge action, just to not be engaged and have a Cg value. If it just so happens that after I am there I get to take 2x:meleeactions. You must also end your move within it's engagement to charge, but on pg. 44 "Every model has an “engagement range” equal to the distance of its longest range Close (:melee) Attack." Mages have a 1" :melee on their zero. So you can still charge, you must just end within 1" so are within their engagement range (even if they cannot use that attack on disengaging cause it is a zero).

fun note, the other mages can still charge b/c of this, they just don't have any legal attacks to take once they get there.

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Yes, its bizarre but if 2 opposing mages are 1.5" apart, they aren't engaged even if they have blood ward, and you have to end the charge in 1" of the target for it to be a legal charge

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15 hours ago, 7thSquirrel said:

(even if they cannot use that attack on disengaging cause it is a zero).

"To resolve a disengaging strike, the enemy models that are engaged with the moving model may choose to take a free Attack Action with any one Close (:melee) Attack which the disengaging model is within range of."

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As far as I see it, the mage can charge models with 2" engagement range or higher at 8".

The mage charges and moves in 2" of the target. He is engaged then, so he gets his 2" engagement range and engages his target. He ends the movement engaged, so the charge is valid.

Do I get the timing wrong? The mage has his melee range as long as he is engaged (if he wants to), so as soon as he moves to the target, he has the range. He doesn't have it at the start of the move, but before the end, which is the important part. This has also strange side effects, as he can charge a model with 2" engagement range, while not being able to charge something with 1", but it is possible, as far as I can see it.

 

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2 hours ago, MuMantai said:

As far as I see it, the mage can charge models with 2" engagement range or higher at 8".

The mage charges and moves in 2" of the target. He is engaged then, so he gets his 2" engagement range and engages his target. He ends the movement engaged, so the charge is valid.

Do I get the timing wrong? The mage has his melee range as long as he is engaged (if he wants to), so as soon as he moves to the target, he has the range. He doesn't have it at the start of the move, but before the end, which is the important part. This has also strange side effects, as he can charge a model with 2" engagement range, while not being able to charge something with 1", but it is possible, as far as I can see it.

 

When he declares the charge, hes not engaged. Hence, he does not have a close combat attack: He cannot charge.

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1 minute ago, Franchute said:

When he declares the charge, hes not engaged. Hence, he does not have a close combat attack: He cannot charge.

He has. His (0) action is a :melee attack. The question was if he has a thread range of 8" or 7" in charge, and I argue he has 8" on targets with at least 2" engagement range.

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4 minutes ago, MuMantai said:

He has. His (0) action is a :melee attack. The question was if he has a thread range of 8" or 7" in charge, and I argue he has 8" on targets with at least 2" engagement range.

You cant declare a charge with a (0) action.

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On 16.2.2018 at 4:14 PM, 7thSquirrel said:

digital rulebook, pg. 39:
"(2) Charge: Target a model within LoS. Move this model up to its Cg in a straight line. This model must end the move with the target model within its engagement range or this Action may not be taken. This model then takes two Range :melee Attack Actions against the target model. Each of these Actions must have an AP cost of 1. A model may not declare this Action if it is engaged (see Engagement, pg. 48) or if it has a Cg of “—”."

I don't need a 1 AP :melee to take a charge action, just to not be engaged and have a Cg value. If it just so happens that after I am there I get to take 2x:meleeactions. You must also end your move within it's engagement to charge, but on pg. 44 "Every model has an “engagement range” equal to the distance of its longest range Close (:melee) Attack." Mages have a 1" :melee on their zero. So you can still charge, you must just end within 1" so are within their engagement range (even if they cannot use that attack on disengaging cause it is a zero).

fun note, the other mages can still charge b/c of this, they just don't have any legal attacks to take once they get there.

I will just quote what this wise squirrel said :)

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30 minutes ago, MuMantai said:

I will just quote what this wise squirrel said :)

I guess I'm wrong. Indeed, when you declare the charge, I believe you dont need to declare the attack actions you will make yet. 

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