lame0 Posted September 12, 2017 Report Share Posted September 12, 2017 So I have been playing around with the crier and thus far have decided that mah is one of the best masters with it. The combo is quite deadly allowing for discard one draw two effects off of every mah action. This allows mahh to use her 8 inch push + her (0) discard and 3x defensive to go from one card in hand to 6 seeing 10 cards. Granted that is the extreme but it makes her great with Lenny and probably gives her the best hand control in the game. I feel a list like this one: 50 SS Gremlins Crew Mah Tucket + 4 Pool - Manifest Destiny (1) - Know The Terrain (1) - Lead Lined Apron (2) Malifaux Child (3) Trixibelle (8) Lenny (9) - I'll Love It And Pet It... (1) Gremlin Crier (7) Burt Jebsen (7) - Dirty Cheater (1) Slop Hauler (5) Slop Hauler (5) **Malifaux child + lead lined apron can be swapped for little lass(lead lined apron) + dirty cheater on Mah** its a hard choice because little lass has has a pretty nice punch and resilience for 4ss(especially with every turn get off my land). but the pushes from malifaux child is pretty flexible.** What's great about this list is that pretty consistently it can get two piglets summoned turn one and and between Trixie, Lenny, malifaux child, crier, and mah pushes you have a TON of movement control making the list very hard to read and it makes it so Lenny can actually keep up. Rather than forcing yourself to commit to alpha with mah turn one this list let's you summon, prepare your position and hand so that turn two you can commit to a hard engage or at the very least start picking off enemy scheme runners with your beaters. Also the healing from the two slop haulers should make it easier to keep all the key models alive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nukemouse Posted September 12, 2017 Report Share Posted September 12, 2017 Every time you draw a card with the crier if it brings your hand up to 6 or above it takes an extra damage. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myyrä Posted September 12, 2017 Report Share Posted September 12, 2017 You can get similar amounts of card drawing by just taking two Gremlin Criers. You don't really need Mah for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Math Mathonwy Posted September 12, 2017 Report Share Posted September 12, 2017 I think that Somer is a bit better as a hand advantage Master As @Nukemousenoted, you'll need to drop down to five cards in order to really use the Crier. You could do that pretty handily by using Lil Lass's Get Off My Land. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lame0 Posted September 12, 2017 Author Report Share Posted September 12, 2017 1 hour ago, Nukemouse said: Every time you draw a card with the crier if it brings your hand up to 6 or above it takes an extra damage. No I implied you get your hand to below 5 and as far as I can see mah's effect can resolve second so it can get you to 6 cards without hurting the crier for two. Also for example if I'm trying to go for the crows for Lenny I can do the following: Defensive twice on the crier heal for 3 (assuming I only get one card I want and I wasted a card to get to 5 cards to start cheating initiative etc.) Go on mah draw 10 discard 5. Leaves the crier on 1 wound and it means I cycled through up to 13 cards So 13+6+2 leaves me at 21 cards seen turn one. That gives me a 90% chance of seeing two 7+ tomes so I can summon two piglets turn one. With do over that gets you to 93.5%. not including the actual flip for the tomes on the actions. This also doesn't include just activating a slop hauler and healing the crier for further cycles. Also note that this isn't only about drawing but also getting the exact cards you need in hand. I think taking two criers is a total waste because it commits you to much and cycle is worse because they kill themselves quickly. Mah is their for her strength in later turns but now she is a little like somer pre wave 5 in that she doesn't have to commit to an alpha to not waste her turn one. I feel that's one of the issue that mah and a bunch of the tier two and three masters had was that they can't get anything done like somer early and thus fall behind. Also one of Somers greatest advantages is his card advantage from Gremlins dying. This is pretty similar if you can get the crier to be near her during her pushes later in the game since they can be a free discard two draw four. I'm also not saying the list is perfect but again summoning 8 stones turn one, holding on to at least 2-4 face cards into turn two and being able to heal up any damage seems like a solid choice by only commiting 7 extra stones. Edit: Ohh and to clarify I should have said best hand filter :P. No doubt somer is still on top for overall hand control but I wanted a title that might pull some attention lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogmantra Posted September 12, 2017 Report Share Posted September 12, 2017 If only there was another way to summon two piglets on the first turn Nah but I see what you mean, I think it's pretty obvious that the Crier was intended as a stealth Mah buff because of how discard hungry she is (it certainly wasn't supposed to be a buff for Old Cranky or Som'er), although going defensive 3 times on turn 1 with your master seems like a bit of a waste. Sure you get some pushing out of it, but wouldn't it be way cheaper to just bring a Bayou Gremlin, go Drunk & Reckless for 1 damage and go defensive 3 times instead? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dominion Posted September 12, 2017 Report Share Posted September 12, 2017 4 hours ago, Nukemouse said: Every time you draw a card with the crier if it brings your hand up to 6 or above it takes an extra damage. you'll have always 5 cards in hand, because you'll use one for the chores with Ill Omens so you CAN push Mah + Little lass + 3 bushwackers first turn, gaining 1 card and doing 5 damage to the crier (and cycling 5 cards) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wizuriel Posted September 12, 2017 Report Share Posted September 12, 2017 Or just use Somer with banjoista and Sammy. Have somer bigger hat so neither player has a hand then kill a gremlin. Draw 3 cards between Somer and the banjoista and Sammy will let you discard once to draw a 4th. Not as many cards as Mah, but a hand of 3 when your opponent has none (with somer and totem giving suits you need and Sammy giving flips with encouragement) is probably not useful imo. I feel effectively wasting a turn to draw cards is just not helpful. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dominion Posted September 12, 2017 Report Share Posted September 12, 2017 2 hours ago, wizuriel said: Or just use Somer with banjoista and Sammy. Have somer bigger hat so neither player has a hand then kill a gremlin. Draw 3 cards between Somer and the banjoista and Sammy will let you discard once to draw a 4th. Not as many cards as Mah, but a hand of 3 when your opponent has none (with somer and totem giving suits you need and Sammy giving flips with encouragement) is probably not useful imo. I feel effectively wasting a turn to draw cards is just not helpful. while with Mah you are getting cards AND moving around your crew also, with somer you need to 1) activate Somer early to maximize the card draw 2) stay in LOS and range of enemy's Master 3) win the opposed duel 4) use AP to kill the gremlin meh :\ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lame0 Posted September 12, 2017 Author Report Share Posted September 12, 2017 3 hours ago, wizuriel said: Or just use Somer with banjoista and Sammy. Have somer bigger hat so neither player has a hand then kill a gremlin. Draw 3 cards between Somer and the banjoista and Sammy will let you discard once to draw a 4th. Not as many cards as Mah, but a hand of 3 when your opponent has none (with somer and totem giving suits you need and Sammy giving flips with encouragement) is probably not useful imo. I feel effectively wasting a turn to draw cards is just not helpful. Weird to call it wasted I mean it's not like she's sitting around. she can move 13 inches (and move a friend) and even without Lenny to summon she could just have a 6 card hand of all 10+ going into turn two with 75% certainty. Another nice way to look at it is 75.5% of the time doing this you end up with 3 12+s. Also the way mah plays she wants to get that +1 ml so it also let's you get a mid level rams card to cheat in with trixie. One thing about the bigger hat than you comparison is that it is still very enemy dependant while Mah's interactions are with herself. I do like the encouragement + somer + emissary to get bigger hat than you off and basically Making bayous great suicidal shooters. Also don't get me wrong I still think somer is a better master by quite a bit but I like seeing what's available and what can give masters like mah an edge. (Somer does basically everything and is in the top 1-2 at every roll in Gremlins so I don't thing he's a great guy to compare to.) I mean honestly the tier list is still more or less unchanged (except ulix I like him better than Wong now). I do like that I can at least see myself using the top 6 masters without feeling like I have no chance without somer. IMO T1 Somer, Zipp, Ulix T2 Wong, Zoraida = Mah T3 Ophelia, Brewmaster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Math Mathonwy Posted September 12, 2017 Report Share Posted September 12, 2017 Have you tried the current Ophelia? I think that she is pretty comfortably T2. She still has access to 2SS models and her two new Upgrades are both good (and free for her if she does take those 2SS models). I think that she is pretty good. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daniello_s Posted September 12, 2017 Report Share Posted September 12, 2017 Ulix in T1??? Why? Wong in T2??? Why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lame0 Posted September 13, 2017 Author Report Share Posted September 13, 2017 3 hours ago, daniello_s said: Ulix in T1??? Why? Wong in T2??? Why? I mean I feel since the stuffed pigs Cuddle wongs felt a little lack luster also hes only gone down one spot so yeah.. You cant have 4+ t1 champs Imo so someone had to move down. I love Ulix with the Crier and Aionus right now. Without going into a huge explanation of my list its Ulix 4 SS - Pig Midwife - Husbandry - Do Over Aionus Old Major Gremlin Crier Meris Slop Hauler Slop Hauler 50/50 So It's seven models but the easiest way to describe it is that the models get super maximized. Basically turn one you make two War Pigs and a piglet (91% odds of getting it all and Aionus and meris are the only models dropping markers 3 each). The benefit though is that the War Pigs both get fast and don't have slow to begin with due to Pig Midwife. From the Deployment line the War pigs end up having a 22 inch charge range and the all charges they make have positives to attack flips and damage. You also typically have a couple cards to cheat and old major usually gives them at least a semi useful suite. Due to the 16x heals from 2 slop hauler you typically heal 25-30 wounds on turn one and get a bunch of charges turn one (3x ap (so if you don't need to double walk you could end up double charge & stampede). Throw in the fact that you can easily make a warpig every turn there after that gets the positives off Old Major. The Opponent having to deal with 24 wounds of pork in their face from turn one is a pain and it would probably take quite a few models to take them down turn two(since they activate 9th and 10th which is usually after your opponent has run out of activations turn one.) The major issue with the list is potentially playing vs obey masters but at the very least the war pigs are usually significantly ahead of the rest of the crew so at least its partially mitigated and because of old major they cant charge each other. I also really like this list because unlike every other summoner I can think of the War pigs & piglets are instantly useful (2-3 ap with a 1 ap charge & positives) so they are actually better than if they started on the table due to positioning etc. Its a complicated order of operations (lol) turn one but everything is protected from blasts and pulses and the crier is on 2-3x defensive on the first activation standing behind ulix so its pretty hard to target or kill. Also after the first two activations turn one I don't even really need the crier anymore but its a great force multiplier and lets me get those sexy charges turn one off. I'll make a separate post about what to do in more detail when I get some time but yeah I think it kind of dethrones Somer as the best summoner in Gremlins (though hes still the best master) and can really packs a nice alpha that has to be dealt with turn two that just keeps sending those painful pig missiles turn after turn. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ikiwith Posted September 13, 2017 Report Share Posted September 13, 2017 3 hours ago, lame0 said: I mean I feel since the stuffed pigs Cuddle wongs felt a little lack luster also hes only gone down one spot so yeah.. You cant have 4+ t1 champs Imo so someone had to move down. I love Ulix with the Crier and Aionus right now. Without going into a huge explanation of my list its Ulix 4 SS - Pig Midwife - Husbandry - Do Over Aionus Old Major Gremlin Crier Meris Slop Hauler Slop Hauler 50/50 So It's seven models but the easiest way to describe it is that the models get super maximized. Basically turn one you make two War Pigs and a piglet (91% odds of getting it all and Aionus and meris are the only models dropping markers 3 each). The benefit though is that the War Pigs both get fast and don't have slow to begin with due to Pig Midwife. From the Deployment line the War pigs end up having a 22 inch charge range and the all charges they make have positives to attack flips and damage. You also typically have a couple cards to cheat and old major usually gives them at least a semi useful suite. Due to the 16x heals from 2 slop hauler you typically heal 25-30 wounds on turn one and get a bunch of charges turn one (3x ap (so if you don't need to double walk you could end up double charge & stampede). Throw in the fact that you can easily make a warpig every turn there after that gets the positives off Old Major. The Opponent having to deal with 24 wounds of pork in their face from turn one is a pain and it would probably take quite a few models to take them down turn two(since they activate 9th and 10th which is usually after your opponent has run out of activations turn one.) The major issue with the list is potentially playing vs obey masters but at the very least the war pigs are usually significantly ahead of the rest of the crew so at least its partially mitigated and because of old major they cant charge each other. I also really like this list because unlike every other summoner I can think of the War pigs & piglets are instantly useful (2-3 ap with a 1 ap charge & positives) so they are actually better than if they started on the table due to positioning etc. Its a complicated order of operations (lol) turn one but everything is protected from blasts and pulses and the crier is on 2-3x defensive on the first activation standing behind ulix so its pretty hard to target or kill. Also after the first two activations turn one I don't even really need the crier anymore but its a great force multiplier and lets me get those sexy charges turn one off. I'll make a separate post about what to do in more detail when I get some time but yeah I think it kind of dethrones Somer as the best summoner in Gremlins (though hes still the best master) and can really packs a nice alpha that has to be dealt with turn two that just keeps sending those painful pig missiles turn after turn. I listen to you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ikiwith Posted September 13, 2017 Report Share Posted September 13, 2017 3 hours ago, lame0 said: I mean I feel since the stuffed pigs Cuddle wongs felt a little lack luster also hes only gone down one spot so yeah.. You cant have 4+ t1 champs Imo so someone had to move down. I love Ulix with the Crier and Aionus right now. Without going into a huge explanation of my list its Ulix 4 SS - Pig Midwife - Husbandry - Do Over Aionus Old Major Gremlin Crier Meris Slop Hauler Slop Hauler 50/50 So It's seven models but the easiest way to describe it is that the models get super maximized. Basically turn one you make two War Pigs and a piglet (91% odds of getting it all and Aionus and meris are the only models dropping markers 3 each). The benefit though is that the War Pigs both get fast and don't have slow to begin with due to Pig Midwife. From the Deployment line the War pigs end up having a 22 inch charge range and the all charges they make have positives to attack flips and damage. You also typically have a couple cards to cheat and old major usually gives them at least a semi useful suite. Due to the 16x heals from 2 slop hauler you typically heal 25-30 wounds on turn one and get a bunch of charges turn one (3x ap (so if you don't need to double walk you could end up double charge & stampede). Throw in the fact that you can easily make a warpig every turn there after that gets the positives off Old Major. The Opponent having to deal with 24 wounds of pork in their face from turn one is a pain and it would probably take quite a few models to take them down turn two(since they activate 9th and 10th which is usually after your opponent has run out of activations turn one.) The major issue with the list is potentially playing vs obey masters but at the very least the war pigs are usually significantly ahead of the rest of the crew so at least its partially mitigated and because of old major they cant charge each other. I also really like this list because unlike every other summoner I can think of the War pigs & piglets are instantly useful (2-3 ap with a 1 ap charge & positives) so they are actually better than if they started on the table due to positioning etc. Its a complicated order of operations (lol) turn one but everything is protected from blasts and pulses and the crier is on 2-3x defensive on the first activation standing behind ulix so its pretty hard to target or kill. Also after the first two activations turn one I don't even really need the crier anymore but its a great force multiplier and lets me get those sexy charges turn one off. I'll make a separate post about what to do in more detail when I get some time but yeah I think it kind of dethrones Somer as the best summoner in Gremlins (though hes still the best master) and can really packs a nice alpha that has to be dealt with turn two that just keeps sending those painful pig missiles turn after turn. I like take this list: 50 SS Gremlins Crew Ulix + 6 Pool - Husbandry (3) - Huntin' Bow (2) - Pig Midwife (1) Penelope (2) Old Major (9) - Corn Husks (2) Gracie (10) Merris LaCroix (6) The Sow (8) Slop Hauler (5) You have three heavy pigs from the begining. Penelope gives support. With the soulstone and merris you don't usually need more models to obtain cards for summon warpig or piglets. For me Ulix is in the top 3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSQ Posted September 13, 2017 Report Share Posted September 13, 2017 It would ping the Crier for two, but has anyone considered using the Emissary with Mah now? Seems like another model that worked with Mah before that benefits from not expending a card on it's ability for Mah's chores. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dominion Posted September 13, 2017 Report Share Posted September 13, 2017 26 minutes ago, MSQ said: It would ping the Crier for two, but has anyone considered using the Emissary with Mah now? Seems like another model that worked with Mah before that benefits from not expending a card on it's ability for Mah's chores. except that the chores other than are kinda useless (maybe can be situational) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Math Mathonwy Posted September 13, 2017 Report Share Posted September 13, 2017 57 minutes ago, Dominion said: except that the chores other than are kinda useless (maybe can be situational) used to be fun with Stuffed Piglets (didn't work when they sacced but much of the time they were killed). It might also see some use when employing Wrastlers if you're careful with the positioning (Diving Charge helps with that). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lame0 Posted September 13, 2017 Author Report Share Posted September 13, 2017 7 hours ago, Ikiwith said: I like take this list: 50 SS Gremlins Crew Ulix + 6 Pool - Husbandry (3) - Huntin' Bow (2) - Pig Midwife (1) Penelope (2) Old Major (9) - Corn Husks (2) Gracie (10) Merris LaCroix (6) The Sow (8) Slop Hauler (5) You have three heavy pigs from the begining. Penelope gives support. With the soulstone and merris you don't usually need more models to obtain cards for summon warpig or piglets. For me Ulix is in the top 3. I have nothing against a list like this but it just does less than the summoned war pigs in the aionus list. A war pig getting an extra ap is huge if it starts it's activation next to old major because it then becomes very possible that the two attacks off a charge could kill its target. if it does that it can keep charging and eliminating the enemy's models. I'm a huge fan of corn husks and Penelope are amazing(wish my list had room). The Hunting bow is cool but for 2ss I have a hard time justifying it since I feel like the attack is a filler if ulix has nothing better to do and the other action to make a pig charge isn't the best unless you take Gracie or the sow (like you are) because for a war pig you are trading 1 master ap for one 1 minion ap. Last thing I never really understood was why people want so many big pigs to start (maybe for the hunting bow) because otherwise I feel like I'd rather more of our "strong" models (Burt & Franc). 46 minutes ago, Dominion said: except that the chores other than are kinda useless (maybe can be situational) I agree with this but the one benefit of getting the rams with the emissary is that it doesn't impact your flip total for initiative. I think that's pretty valuable since you don't have to make the weird trade of having to go second to get the +1 ml (pretty important on a combat master). I tried to include the emissary but tbh if I was going to take a different high stone model over Lenny with the crier I'd prefer aionus. Something like: 50 SS Gremlins Crew Mah Tucket + 4 Pool - Manifest Destiny (1) - Know The Terrain (1) Aionus (13) Gremlin Crier (7) The Sow (8) Slop Hauler (5) Lightning Bug (5) Lightning Bug (5) Lightning Bug (5) This list still let's you summon turn 1 between aionus and the sow (use midnight to make an enemy scheme marker and turn it into a piglet). Then you have a bunch of 4 ap minions and a 3 ap sow ready to engage. Not in love with this but it's another way to go (aionus is better with somer and ulix). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lame0 Posted September 14, 2017 Author Report Share Posted September 14, 2017 anyone try a bayou/slop hauler mah? I feel like it might actually be decent. 50 SS Gremlins Crew Mah Tucket + 4 Pool - Manifest Destiny (1) - Know The Terrain (1) - Dirty Cheater (1) The Little Lass (4) - Lead Lined Apron (0) Trixibelle (8) Slop Hauler (5) Slop Hauler (5) Slop Hauler (5) Slop Hauler (5) Bayou Gremlin (3) Bayou Gremlin (3) Bayou Gremlin (3) Bayou Gremlin (3) Bayou Gremlin (3) I mean getting all the bayous ml(5) + positives to attack flips if you sac one + bayou two card seems pretty interesting. Throw in the 7 inch charge range and drunk and reckless and they can hit well above their weight class (and with a 12 inch sh range they can always focus shoot before that). The reckless slop haulers which get to ml 6 (8 inch charge 13 inch max engagement range) with 2/3/3and appetizing could be really nice and they also have bayou two card like the bayou gremlin. So all I know is having most of the crew with positives to attack, bayou two card, & +1 ml sound like it makes mah a super strong support master who doesn't waste any ap doing it. Also it let's her do what she and her lass want to do and lets them beat face(especially mah since she can help manage those beefy targets). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daniello_s Posted September 14, 2017 Report Share Posted September 14, 2017 Yes, because Bayou Gremlin melee damage is soo scary... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nukemouse Posted September 16, 2017 Report Share Posted September 16, 2017 I feel like maybe take 2 bayou gremlins to sacrifice, take only 2-3 slop haulers and fill the rest with Wrastlers, Survivors, Taxidermists, Rooster Riders, Burt etc. Survivors are also reckless, have a better damage spread and alongside healing from slop haulers would be really annoying to kill for anyone but Leveticus. If your goal is to have tons of tiny damage attacks chipping away at foes whilst being near impossible to hit just take Akaname. They get huge ml vs poisoned targets so each time they hit they become harder to avoid and if you are planning to hit mostly mins its still ok because the poison will add a bit to that damage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I'm a Teapot! Posted September 21, 2017 Report Share Posted September 21, 2017 On 13.9.2017 at 1:27 PM, Dominion said: except that the chores other than are kinda useless (maybe can be situational) So I have one question: Does Chores or the conflux of bushwacking upgrades say its limited to 1 Ram? Or can i stack 2 Rams for Ml Madness? Also if u take sammy with mah, which is now not so much of a waste anymore, cause pit traps is the first upgrade which is working on her too, u can auto cycle one more card cause mah draws at the beginning of her turn, by discarding and pushing. Also I wonder: do the general rules state that u must take a totem? In almost every list I see people taking totems even when another model would be a better investment of soulstones... I'd stay away from little lass or malifaux child and take sammy instead. Of course she is more expensive but I'd prefer her over a modell thats basicly an activation only. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hydranixx Posted September 21, 2017 Report Share Posted September 21, 2017 28 minutes ago, Drunken Kung Fu Kid said: Also I wonder: do the general rules state that u must take a totem? In almost every list I see people taking totems even when another model would be a better investment of soulstones... I'd stay away from little lass or malifaux child and take sammy instead. Of course she is more expensive but I'd prefer her over a modell thats basicly an activation only. There's no rule requiring a totem be hired. I run at least half my masters without a one. However Malifaux Child is always worth considering if you have at least one decent Ca Action on your master worth copying. It's only 3ss and you could always opt to take Sammy and the Malifaux Child. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HellecticMojo Posted September 21, 2017 Report Share Posted September 21, 2017 1 hour ago, Drunken Kung Fu Kid said: So I have one question: Does Chores or the conflux of bushwacking upgrades say its limited to 1 Ram? Or can i stack 2 Rams for Ml Madness? Also if u take sammy with mah, which is now not so much of a waste anymore, cause pit traps is the first upgrade which is working on her too, u can auto cycle one more card cause mah draws at the beginning of her turn, by discarding and pushing. Also I wonder: do the general rules state that u must take a totem? In almost every list I see people taking totems even when another model would be a better investment of soulstones... I'd stay away from little lass or malifaux child and take sammy instead. Of course she is more expensive but I'd prefer her over a modell thats basicly an activation only. I think not, because the conflux says that you "may get two benefits from the chores," but the text of chores do not give you an option to refute a chore you get. So only way you can discard a two card for two suits and not get double chores is if you try to stack. If the text said "This will result in two benefits from the chores ability" then I would argue for stacking, but it does not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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