Franchute Posted January 4, 2017 Report Share Posted January 4, 2017 Hello, The underpowered topic is getting so big and messy that I thought I'd simply follow @4thstringer's strategy who opened a topic on the guardian and focus on another mentionned aspect which I'm highly interested in, i.e. how to build post-errata Sonnia lists. Given that papabox is not possible anymore, some proposed alternatives. @Myyrä suggested the use of abuela to keep papa out of the boom range and then obey him to move back in for the buff. @trikk said good things about envy giving Sonnia the focus condition. @JDAntoine mentionned the roles of numb to the world and witchling thralls. And then others simply complained. I'm sure I'm forgetting other ideas but that's why I'm opening this thread. I am a big fan of Sonnia. She was my first master. I think she is still powerful and I would like to still play with her under GG2017. So I'm hoping to see some structured discussion here without the need of complaining. Future is good. But we need to know how to embrace it. So, I'm asking: how should we adapt her lists to the new schemes? Which schemes should we avoid? Etc... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trikk Posted January 4, 2017 Report Share Posted January 4, 2017 Don`t: Hidden Trap, Recover Evidence, Accusations, Covert Breakthrough (might try in Close/Flank), Tail`em, Inspection Do: Eliminate their Leadership, A Quick Murder, Claim Jump, Show of Force, Hunting Party, Last Stand, Set Up, Search The Ruins Maybes: FFM, Undercover Entourage, Dig Your Grave, LYM, Mark for Death I`m playing enforcer heavy right now with Phiona, Abuela, Loco and Francisco, so Show of Force and Hunting Partty are very doable. A Quick Murder also as you have 2 henchmen with min damage 3, Abuela with very probably 8 a turn if you take Rapid Fire and Loco. If I`d have Envy I`d risk Last Stand. Set Up is ok but I would probably bring in an Austringer, same as Search The Ruins. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDAntoine Posted January 5, 2017 Report Share Posted January 5, 2017 This is the new variant for me: Sonnia Criid - Cherufe's Imprint - Counterspell Aura Malifaux Child Francisco - Wade In - Hermanos De Armas Papa Loco - Numb to the World Abuela Ortega Guild Austringer Guild Austringer Watcher Brutal Effigy 3 SS Boring I guess, but has the members and the Family and the Walls. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spooky_squirrel Posted January 5, 2017 Report Share Posted January 5, 2017 On the maybe FFM front: When I pick Frame for Murder, I put it on something that's going to make itself the kind of nuisance that takes the personal attention of a master or henchman to take it down. I know other people who do this as well, including some Guild players in my local/extended meta who like to put it on Francisco. That makes us predictable to each other because we have the same though (distraction Emissary?). The other way I've seen people go is with a model that deploys or darts forward that's not necessarily high threat by itself. I usually see newer players doing this to other relatively new players because it presents an early target of opportunity. With Sonnia I would say do your best to ensure that anything that looks like it's on a suicide run dies to burning or to some peon or minion. If your opponent spends an AP putting the target out so that it can try to die in combat, you're getting a slight AP edge while they try to get it to live long enough to die another way. If you cannot get it to burn to death, try to have a minion or enforcer get the kill in Turn 4 (earlier is fine, it limits them to 2VP if you do it early), or even use a DM to box it on the charge and keep it off the table for the turn. It has to be Killed or Sacrificed to score. On the Papa Loco front: He's a liability, especially with his low Df, but Abuela does a lot of control stuff from her wheelchair. I was surprised at how much she was moving around and moving things around in the last game I played against Guild. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trikk Posted January 5, 2017 Report Share Posted January 5, 2017 I play 0 austringers but Phiona and Abuela in their place. Or I can swap Phiona for 2 austringers. I will sometimed skip Counterspell aura. Unless its Resser mostly Edit: An Austringer. I'd never take 2 now 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDAntoine Posted January 5, 2017 Report Share Posted January 5, 2017 3 minutes ago, spooky_squirrel said: On the Papa Loco front: He's a liability, especially with his low Df. I'm gonna build a wall. - Sonnia Criid 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDAntoine Posted January 5, 2017 Report Share Posted January 5, 2017 1 minute ago, trikk said: I play 0 austringers but Phiona and Abuela in their place. Very cool choice! I like the crew with idiotic ammounts of blasts, looking around corners and stuf... But I did had to hand in some SS for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spooky_squirrel Posted January 5, 2017 Report Share Posted January 5, 2017 1 minute ago, JDAntoine said: I'm gonna build a wall. - Sonnia Criid Ha! Or that! It is a pulse, so you could use him as a mobile anti-personnel mine if you pop the walls up between him and your crew. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDAntoine Posted January 5, 2017 Report Share Posted January 5, 2017 Just now, spooky_squirrel said: Ha! Or that! It is a pulse, so you could use him as a mobile anti-personnel mine if you pop the walls up between him and your crew. Cool guys can't look at explosions! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trikk Posted January 5, 2017 Report Share Posted January 5, 2017 Except Sonnia I don't blast. Abuela with Debt or Rapid Fire does crazy damage with Slug and Sh7. Also the issues I had is you move Francisco and then usually Sonnia moves in range. Sometimes she ends up more than 2" from Frank. Abuela obeys him to move within 2 inches for El mayor. Other options are extra attack/enfrantante/look out/command stone/replace marker I said I'd swap for 2 austringers. I would never take 2 austringers in Guild now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myyrä Posted January 5, 2017 Report Share Posted January 5, 2017 6 hours ago, JDAntoine said: This is the new variant for me: Sonnia Criid - Cherufe's Imprint - Counterspell Aura Malifaux Child Francisco - Wade In - Hermanos De Armas Papa Loco - Numb to the World Abuela Ortega Guild Austringer Guild Austringer Watcher Brutal Effigy 3 SS Boring I guess, but has the members and the Family and the Walls. This is more or less what I would play, but I would drop one or both of the Austringers for Guard Sergeants, Reporters or more Watchers. Nino is also an option if the table favors him, because there is quite a few family models with Abuela being able to add the characteristic to Sonnia or someone else. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trikk Posted January 5, 2017 Report Share Posted January 5, 2017 You really value Sergeants that high? I agree with Nino. Played him recently with Nellie. Scored 3 HP points on Slop Haulers and Bayou Gremlins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myyrä Posted January 5, 2017 Report Share Posted January 5, 2017 9 minutes ago, trikk said: You really value Sergeants that high? There aren't many 6ss models that can score claim jump alone if not stopped, certainly not within Guild. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myyrä Posted January 5, 2017 Report Share Posted January 5, 2017 I also just realized that Sergeants enjoy from that awful aura wording so prevalent in wave 2 that lets all of them always enjoy from +1Wk if you bring at least two. How did wave 2 playtesters suck so bad? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trikk Posted January 5, 2017 Report Share Posted January 5, 2017 Well. Taking two is 12SS. I don't know if they are over the top with this and considering they we're rarely used I find it better in the long run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Math Mathonwy Posted January 5, 2017 Report Share Posted January 5, 2017 I'll be honest. "Nice enough a list but I would swap the Austringers for Guard Sergeants" was kinda a sentence I wasn't expecting to read under this edition... 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludvig Posted January 5, 2017 Report Share Posted January 5, 2017 4 hours ago, Myyrä said: I also just realized that Sergeants enjoy from that awful aura wording so prevalent in wave 2 that lets all of them always enjoy from +1Wk if you bring at least two. How did wave 2 playtesters suck so bad? That was definitely intentional. Would have been a bug if they buffed themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trikk Posted January 5, 2017 Report Share Posted January 5, 2017 I think Myyra suggests that it should be Othet non-Guild Sergeant Guardsmen models. This way 2 Sergeants wouldn't have Wk 6 next to each other Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myyrä Posted January 5, 2017 Report Share Posted January 5, 2017 10 minutes ago, Ludvig said: That was definitely intentional. Would have been a bug if they buffed themselves. They do buff themselves if there is two in play. That definitely isn't intentional. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Math Mathonwy Posted January 5, 2017 Report Share Posted January 5, 2017 38 minutes ago, trikk said: I think Myyra suggests that it should be Othet non-Guild Sergeant Guardsmen models. This way 2 Sergeants wouldn't have Wk 6 next to each other They don't even need to be next to each other - mere presence on the battlefield is enough to provide the effect since the Sergeant provides the Aura. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trikk Posted January 5, 2017 Report Share Posted January 5, 2017 I don't get it. Other friendly Guardsmen that begin their activation within 3 of one or models with this Ability gain +1 Wk for the duration of the Activation What am I missing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Math Mathonwy Posted January 5, 2017 Report Share Posted January 5, 2017 4 minutes ago, trikk said: I don't get it. Other friendly Guardsmen that begin their activation within 3 of one or models with this Ability gain +1 Wk for the duration of the Activation What am I missing Sergeant A knows that Sergeant B is somewhere on the battlefield. So he checks B's card. "Other friendly Guardsmen" - hehey, that's me, Sergeant A! I'm an other friendly Guardsman to Sergeant B. "That begin their activation within 3 of one or models with this Ability" - hehey, that's me, Sergeant A, since I begin my activation within 3" of a model with this ability (that model being me). 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trikk Posted January 5, 2017 Report Share Posted January 5, 2017 Got it. Makes sense in a way it doesn't make sense. I'd feel super dirty if I'd use it Thanks for taking the time to explain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Math Mathonwy Posted January 5, 2017 Report Share Posted January 5, 2017 Just now, trikk said: Got it. Makes sense in a way it doesn't make sense. Would never use it though. Thanks for taking the time to explain. Come on! It's convoluted and evil - just like Guild would want it! Besides, I doubt it will break anything - 12SS for two Sergeants isn't exactly cheap even if they get an extra inch of movement. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trikk Posted January 5, 2017 Report Share Posted January 5, 2017 I'd use it only playing Lucius. Would seem thematic I think the intentions are clear and using it is an exploit but if someone used it against me I'd probably just let him do it 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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