Good Googly Goddamn, how can I make Pandora and her crew effective against high WP crews?

[perfectlyskewed]

So much thanks to everyone who's replied so far! I suppose I should give his crew a try, if I'm not too salty about losing to Misaki so much lately I am learning to make better use of Pandora's fading memory ability as well, really helped last time I played.

[Ludvig]

@Voodoo Specter Pushes actually need to go by the shortest route and stop as soon as you touch bases. Since misery loves company is a place effect it works differently and you can place the model however you wish as long as you touch your target.

[Xekros]

A bit of thread necro here (I think, what's necro time on this forum?), but the question seems to have gone largely unanswered, so I hope this'll help:

I'm definitely in the minority in this opinion, but I'm not a fan of Teddy in Pandora crews, or Kade, for that matter. Insidious Madnesses are fantastic, both for their scheme running ability and their Wp shenanigans. Widow Weaver works well for a positionally anchored game, but will do fine even if you have to spread out, just keep her in cover.

My Pandora build is the brawler style, with The Box Opens, Fears Given Form, and Aether Connection or Fugue State, based on Strat/Schemes. FGF is a Df duel, as well, so that can get around some of the Wp issues. The best advice I've heard for her, as well as her crew, is that most of the things she does don't require cards, they simply happen. Because of this, you can save nearly all of your cards for defense.

Learning to use Incite properly will make or break Pandora's crews, since, as noted, they are incredibly fragile. For this reason, I recommend Iggy as a model to pick up as well. He brings another instance of Incite and some ranged burning, as well as another instance of Martyr. He's also an Enforcer, so can take an upgrade. His other (0) gives all unactivated enemy models within  6 to take -2 Wp, which pairs with Melancholy, below.

Depression is still more activation control, which provides the Melancholy action to every other Woe is LoS. Melancholy applies a condition that, effectively, forces the model to go last.

Needless to say, if you can tag a model with either Melancholy or Incite, then put Candy next to them, it will hurt, especially if you give her FGF as well.

The Poltergeist is surprisingly good at tying up models, despite his Ml 4 attack stat. His Distraction Ability has the same range as his Ml attack (which is resisted by Wp), which makes him hard to get away from, paired with Incorporeal, Regeneration, and the ability to use Martyr to siphon off even more Wounds.

Insidious Madnesses are a strange proposition at first glance: you simultaneously want them off on the edges running schemes, or right in the middle of the enemy crew. If they're outside of 2" of the enemy, they become much easier to hit. Returning to the cardless advantage (as I end up calling it) Induce Phobia's TN 10 Horror Duel doesn't look like much, until you realize that they're probably down 2-3 Wp from the Widow Weaver, and possibly on negative flips from the Poltergeist. If the poltergeist ins't there, they still have to discard a card to cheat in the first place due to the Madness' ability.

As for the Sorrows, warp them into place then go defensive. If you're already in place, try for a Doldrums. Yes, it's Ca 5, yes, it's a (2) action, and yes, it probably will go off regardless, if your other models are set up.

Remember Misery for every duel, as pretty much everything in this post targets Wp. One huge advantage is that it gets around Armor, because it's, for example, 3 instances of 1 damage each, as opposed to 1 instance of 3 damage. However, be careful of Black Blood, as that will trigger for each hit, dealing as much damage to you as you have to them.

[-Loki-]

I think the thing with including Teddy or Kade is that people see Kades "Where's Teddy?" and want to build around that. Kade and Teddy perform the same thing in a Pandora crew - they give you a beater. While Pandora herself is built around WP duels, and she likes things that can drop WP or triger off it, sometimes you just want beater to go hit something. Including Kade or a Teddy will give you a good beater with different synergies with the crew. Teddy can get into the thick of it and trigger Small Fear off failed WP duels, and Kade can double team models you've moved a Sorrow into contact with. They also have the benefit of not being Incorporeal like Sorrows or Insidious Madness's, so if you know there's someone with a Ca action you can send someone a bit less fragile.

Neither are necessary, but sometimes they are just what you want. Both together is a pretty big point sink, so you need to make sure you can spare those points.

[Sybarite]

I dont know if Kade is the best choice when you want someone who isnt fragile though.

[-Loki-]

While I never made any claims about their durability, Df 7, Manipulative 11 and a decently high wound count is pretty durable for Neverborn. Df 7 alone is pretty reliable. Add to that his mobility - Wk 5 and a pretty absurd Cg 8, and you should be able to pick and choose his engagements.

I know his speed and lethality surprised my opponent when he double teamed The Judge in one turn.

[Mr Janje]

46 minutes ago, -Loki- said:

While I never made any claims about their durability, Df 7, Manipulative 11 and a decently high wound count is pretty durable for Neverborn. Df 7 alone is pretty reliable. Add to that his mobility - Wk 5 and a pretty absurd Cg 8, and you should be able to pick and choose his engagements.

I know his speed and lethality surprised my opponent when he double teamed The Judge in one turn.

Whilst his damage, speed and defense are solid, he falls down quickly to focussed attacks

DF7 is all well and good, but when you've only got 6 wounds, you can't take a pounding like most beaters ;)!



Unrelated to the Quote, i've been playing Pandora since i started playing 'Faux! (3 years ago i believe) Brawler Pandora is my bread and butter, and i love her for it.

Fears Given Form adds a little extra damage, forcing your opponents to flip a potentially great card they could have used to attack you, or cheat a card to avoid the 3 damage.

I used to run Teddy and Kade for the ol' One Two combo, but fell out of love seeing as everyone focussed down my teddy as soon as he was on the board, so i swapped them both out for my newest friend, McTavish!

McTavish brings a solid ranged attack to the table, ignoring cover and engagement from 14" away and when the schemes get schemey he can run around devouring them with his (0) Gator Snack, and swapping out Thousand Faces for Malifaux Provides! As an added bonus, the 7ss Tax that comes in the form of a Doppelganger can also copy his Rifle and its extra rules which means with a lucky Mimic flip and lucky Gator Snack, the pair of them can pump out 6 shots a turn with a 2/4/6 damage track!

Plus, McTavish is cool

[-Loki-]

30 minutes ago, Mr Janje said:

Whilst his damage, speed and defense are solid, he falls down quickly to focussed attacks

DF7 is all well and good, but when you've only got 6 wounds, you can't take a pounding like most beaters ;)!

Well yeah but that's just part and parcel of being a Neverborn.

[RumbleMunkey]

The other cool thing about Kade in Pandora is that she and Iggy can protect him with Martyr. You can have him patrol the outside edge of the Pandora bubble picking off easy stuff, then just martyr away some of the damage.

[goth]

I see Baby Kade as:

"glass cannon"

"teddy support"

"Df version of Insidious Madness"

if your crew contains a hired Teddy and doesn't rely on Wp shenanigans, then yes, sure.  I don't own Kade and feel as if I'll be alright donating his ss elsewhere.

[cryion]

On 5.1.2017 at 5:58 PM, Four_N_Six said:

I know he isn't a famous choice, but I love my Poltergeist.

I was quite a fanboy of the pukesnake but have since been convinced about the usefulness of the Poltergeist by a player who is much better than I am.

His argument was this: Incorporeal, walk6, significant, minion, 5pts, -flip wp aura. If it was a 5pt minion, everyone would take him. I think with Pandora he is the better choice over slight card advantage and probably one more activation - and that despite more Casters running around these days with emissarys and stuff.

Add in Widow Weaver for debuff, add in Barbaros for his ridiculously strong aura and things start to become quite complicated for the opponent.

 

[Four_N_Six]

2 hours ago, cryion said:

I was quite a fanboy of the pukesnake but have since been convinced about the usefulness of the Poltergeist by a player who is much better than I am.

His argument was this: Incorporeal, walk6, significant, minion, 5pts, -flip wp aura. If it was a 5pt minion, everyone would take him. I think with Pandora he is the better choice over slight card advantage and probably one more activation - and that despite more Casters running around these days with emissarys and stuff.

Add in Widow Weaver for debuff, add in Barbaros for his ridiculously strong aura and things start to become quite complicated for the opponent.

 

I always put a lot of value into a  Being able to stop your opponent from cheating fate is very useful a lot of the time.  Toss Barbaros in so they have to pass that  in order to hit the Poltergeist in the first place and he's just golden.  Harder to kill than people give credit, if you put the work in for it.