Mxbedlam Posted January 4, 2017 Report Share Posted January 4, 2017 So with the January Errata we got to see our first real rework of a master in Malifaux and I think it leaves us open to talk about other masters that are behind the power curve and underrepresented. Since Ironsides got some models AND the tome I think she is in good shape now, so lets talk about Kaeris. Rules: You cannot just pile on new abilities. Lucius was simply reworked to do what he needs to do better. Don't make her broken. We are looking to up her board time, not dominate the field. So I'll start. I think one of the toughest things about Kaeris is that her iconic ability is on an upgrade and one of he most fun triggers is on an upgrade no one takes. My first suggestion would be to put Grab and Drop on her card, and combine Wings of Flame with the Born of Flame upgrade so that she can EITHER summon off Immolate OR drop Pyre Markers. The problem with this approach is that it leaves her with 3 (0)s on her card, which is a bit much. So I would possibly make her Accelerant and Truth in Flame combined so that instead of Paralyzing models she can draw cards if they choose to remove burning instead. Anyway, I think that just these two changes would make Kaeris a lot stronger and give her some more interesting choices for playstyle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengt Posted January 4, 2017 Report Share Posted January 4, 2017 What steams me is that they took Kaeris' signature things (flying Master that drops people) and gave vastly superior versions to a shitty gremlin. That said (I had to get it of my chest) I don't think Kaeris is weaker than Ironsides. But to make Kaeris a little less frustrating to play I would give her an ability that lets her spend 1 AP and discard a card (or some other combination of resources) to take an (0) Action on her own card. I know they slapped Instinctual on the Emissary but since it's an Action it just makes Kaeris' already strict activation order more strict if you want to get any of use of it. Though I guess changing Flame-o-taur to last until the end of her next Activation would work as well, but I rather have it on Kaeris herself. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mxbedlam Posted January 4, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 4, 2017 2 minutes ago, Bengt said: What steams me is that they took Kaeris' signature things (flying Master that drops people) and gave vastly superior versions to a shitty gremlin. That said (I had to get it of my chest) I don't think Kaeris is weaker than Ironsides. But to make Kaeris a little less frustrating to play I would give her an ability that lets her spend 1 AP and discard a card (or some other combination of resources) to take an (0) Action on her own card. I know they slapped Instinctual on the Emissary but since it's an Action it just makes Kaeris' already strict activation order more strict if you want to get any of use of it. Though I guess changing Flame-o-taur to last until the end of her next Activation would work as well, but I rather have it on Kaeris herself. I like this idea, pairing down 1 actions for 0s seems fair and there's plenty of times I've just plopped burning on a model because I had a spare 1 action I didn't really do anything constructive with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retnab Posted January 4, 2017 Report Share Posted January 4, 2017 I'd like to see the Born of Fire upgrade looked at again, giving two triggers one of which needs a suit that isn't built in and require that the attack kills the target is way too niche to use and difficult to pull off. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katadder Posted January 4, 2017 Report Share Posted January 4, 2017 kaeris is already pretty good and competitive, especially with alot of new scheme marker requirements in new pool. is annoying that zipp got a better grab and drop 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mxbedlam Posted January 6, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2017 See I tend to disagree. I love Kaeris but I often feel like I'm playing with a henchman who just happens to have permanent fast. Very little on her card feels Master level powerful until you get to her upgrades, which I feel are the biggest limiting factor for Kaeris. On the whole her upgrades could be reworked to get her in line with our other masters. Am I saying I'd never play her? No, but I don't think I'd ever run her in a serious tournament. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertmac Posted January 6, 2017 Report Share Posted January 6, 2017 Make her df trigger after resolving. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertmac Posted January 6, 2017 Report Share Posted January 6, 2017 To be honest I don't think she's underpowered really. Last 4 tournaments I've played I've taken kaeris in 13 of 15 games won 10 lost 3 all three losses were against a clubmate who I have beaten fairly well in non tournament games. The other 2 games were with Marcus won 1 lost 1 I think if you play her a lot and get to know her she can be very strong and as she doesn't pop up regularly can be a tough test to players that don't face her often. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frozen Feet Posted January 6, 2017 Report Share Posted January 6, 2017 In my opinion Kaeris is very nice to play. Surely not the biggest gun in arcanists armory. But fast movin , hard hitting (against burning targets).. ...aaand without a doubt, the upgrade choice is not an easy choice. Kaeris, Captain, 1-2Raptors, Gunsmith is a very nice core-crew.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tris Posted January 7, 2017 Report Share Posted January 7, 2017 On 4.1.2017 at 4:41 PM, Bengt said: What steams me is that they took Kaeris' signature things (flying Master that drops people) and gave vastly superior versions to a shitty gremlin. That said (I had to get it of my chest) I don't think Kaeris is weaker than Ironsides. But to make Kaeris a little less frustrating to play I would give her an ability that lets her spend 1 AP and discard a card (or some other combination of resources) to take an (0) Action on her own card. I know they slapped Instinctual on the Emissary but since it's an Action it just makes Kaeris' already strict activation order more strict if you want to get any of use of it. Though I guess changing Flame-o-taur to last until the end of her next Activation would work as well, but I rather have it on Kaeris herself. What is the strict activation order you are speaking of? (putting the emissary aside of course, you answered that) On the other hand, I don`t see the problem with her? She has card draw, placement abilities, board control if she wants - granted, I´m no Kaeris player, but that`s why I´m interested in this thread^^ So, where are her problems? (I get the envious looks to Zipps Grab&Drop, but hers is a 0 and gets imo used to place her and other models) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertmac Posted January 7, 2017 Report Share Posted January 7, 2017 Wings of fire needs models to be within 6" of her at the start of their activation so she if she uses her 0 to set a bunch of models alight she then can't go far or they'll not be gaining wings of fire and will take damage at the end of the turn. Pyre markers on the purifying fire upgrade means to be useful she needs to go early in the turn but then she will need to be setting stuff on fire to make the most use of her damage attack. Whereas idealy her crew could set stuff alight for her to kill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengt Posted January 7, 2017 Report Share Posted January 7, 2017 1 hour ago, Tris said: What is the strict activation order you are speaking of? (putting the emissary aside of course, you answered that) On the other hand, I don`t see the problem with her? She has card draw, placement abilities, board control if she wants - granted, I´m no Kaeris player, but that`s why I´m interested in this thread^^ So, where are her problems? (I get the envious looks to Zipps Grab&Drop, but hers is a 0 and gets imo used to place her and other models) For the card draw you'll need to either give her instinctual and Flare and then Truth, so Emissary goes first; or you can have other models go first (e.g. Malifaux Child, Union Miners, Rail Golem) to set fire to people and then Truth with Kaeris. For the flight/scheme markers you need them on fire and close to Kaeris when they activates, either use Flare and hang around, or use other models for fire and not activate Kaeris for a while. The healing is less dependent on activation order, there you just have to plan where you want everyone at the end of the turn. All of them require a certain amount of clumping together. So one of her problems are that you have to decide from the start of a turn what you are going to do, and if you deviate from that to react to the enemy you'll not only miss out on her most powerful abilities but you end up damaging your own models instead! This double whammy can feel a bit much. So its not so much that you'll always have to activate everything the same way, but select an activation order each turn. I still like her though but it can often feel like I have to jump through a little too many hoops. Zipp's Up We Go has more flexible placement than Grab And Drop. Enemy goes 5" for both but you have to place Kaeris within 2" of the enemy so she will be engaged if it survives, Zipp can go 8" anywhere he wants. That GnD is a (0) is bad for Kaeris since she has several other, UPW being a (1) means you can repeatedly use a good attack to get an enemy really out of position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoctorWhat Posted January 7, 2017 Report Share Posted January 7, 2017 I don't feel that Kaeris really needs tweaking. She's got a lot of pretty great stuff in her kit. My only issue is that Gunsmiths feel like they hit far too well for 7SS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dancater Posted January 8, 2017 Report Share Posted January 8, 2017 My issue with Kaeris is that I don't 'feel' the character of her when I play her. She is meant to be I think fast, hit and run and flame. She does not play this way much. I'd like to see a sideways re-work as opposed to a buff, move skills around and change them to emphasise her niche and character. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordon Posted January 10, 2017 Report Share Posted January 10, 2017 I think Kaeris has plenty of game. She's certainly not top tier but she's probably got the most utility along side Sandeep for the faction. I think it's due to the fact that she's a jack of all but master of none that gets people down on her. She's pretty adaptable so use her to fill in the gap for whatever you need her to do any she can likely get the job done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retnab Posted January 10, 2017 Report Share Posted January 10, 2017 How have people been finding Carlos in a Kaeris crew? My Black Friday order finally arrived yesterday and I put Carlos together immediately, haha. He seems like a real powerhouse as long as you can keep him topped up with Burning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mxbedlam Posted January 10, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2017 4 hours ago, retnab said: How have people been finding Carlos in a Kaeris crew? My Black Friday order finally arrived yesterday and I put Carlos together immediately, haha. He seems like a real powerhouse as long as you can keep him topped up with Burning. Carlos is crazy tanky and works very well with her. I really like him in the Purifying list with the Eternal Flame Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.