1 inch walls/fences and the like

[ChirpOTK]

Hi, I just had a quick questions about small walls. I couldn't find anything about it in the rule book, but I saw in a bat rep that 2 inch models could move over them without climbing. Maybe that was just a house rule or something? Does anyone have any insight on how a small fence or wall would affect movement on a 2 inch or taller model?

[Dogmantra]

Fetid Strumpet is correct, although "blocking" actually means it blocks line of sight, "impassible" means you can't cross it. A smoke cloud might be blocking but not impassible for example.

The most common way to define ht1 walls I've seen is blocking, impassible, climbable and hard/soft cover. That way you can move through them but it will cost you 2" extra of movement.

A less common way is to call them severe instead of impassible so you can move through them with very little penalty (although this means you can be pushed through them)

There's no reason you couldn't agree that everyone can simply vault small walls without losing movement, and then you'd just not give them impassible or severe.

[Fetid Strumpet]

There is no definitive answer. It's all down to how you define the terrain. Most new players seem to skip the section in the book where it says you must, with your opponent, discuss and agree on all terrain definitions before the game. If you have a Ht 1 Fence as part of the terrain, agreeing on height is a good start, but you must both agree on what traits you give it. If you give it blocking, and nothing else it won't provide cover, and you cannot cross it. If you give it Soft Cover and Blocking, it will provider soft cover, and you can't cross it. If you don't give it blocking but give it soft cover, it will provide cover, but you can just walk through it with no penalty. If you give it blocking and climbable you can't walk through it, but you can climb over it.

This area is probably THE most common area of the rules that is going to vary wildly and have little consistency between playgroups. I know we play them very differently than other groups represented in battle reports. There is no 100% correct answer that is going to apply to all "official" play. How you and your group choose to define the terrain is all that matters.

[santaclaws01]

32 minutes ago, Dogmantra said:

 unless you count defining the air above it as impassable, which I tend to do with buildings.

Show us on the doll where the snipers shot you.

[Fetid Strumpet]

Thank you I blanked on the proper terminology. Appreciate it.

 

[spooky_squirrel]

2 hours ago, Dogmantra said:

The most common way to define ht1 walls I've seen is blocking, impassible, climbable and hard/soft cover. That way you can move through them but it will cost you 2" extra of movement.

This is something I've seen a minor variant of: with the falling rules the way they are, models could "fall"/jump down from Ht1 and Ht2 obstacles without movement loss or damage (beyond the movement required to get the base completely over  the obstacle).

Edit: clarification I was going for here was pay the movement cost for climbing up, voluntarily fall down for no climbing cost going down.

[Clement]

Just now, spooky_squirrel said:

This is something I've seen a minor variant of: with the falling rules the way they are, models could "fall"/jump down from Ht1 and Ht2 obstacles without movement loss or damage (beyond the movement required to get the base completely over  the obstacle).

Not sure how that's a variant.  That sounds like the standard falling rules to me.  They don't kick in and do damage till you fall off of a Ht 3 thing.

[spooky_squirrel]

It's a variant on the cost of clearing a Ht1 wall, instead of climbing up and climbing down, the model climbs up and falls down, reducing the total move cost.

[solkan]

4 minutes ago, spooky_squirrel said:

It's a variant on the cost of clearing a Ht1 wall, instead of climbing up and climbing down, the model climbs up and falls down, reducing the total move cost.

You're missing Clement's point.  "The model climbs up and falls down" isn't a variant rule, it's a strategy based on the game mechanics for falling making a fall of 2" or less (Ht2 or less) harmless.

Unlike certain other games, models can deliberately walk off of things and fall down, if the player controlling the action wants to. 

[spooky_squirrel]

24 minutes ago, solkan said:

You're missing Clement's point.  "The model climbs up and falls down" isn't a variant rule, it's a strategy based on the game mechanics for falling making a fall of 2" or less (Ht2 or less) harmless.

Unlike certain other games, models can deliberately walk off of things and fall down, if the player controlling the action wants to. 

Yes, but the walk off and fall down would cause the wall itself to only cost 1" (climbing up), instead of 2" (climbing up and down), which was the distance in the quote I initially replied to. My intent here was to clarify for the OP that models can fall down instead of climb down. Misunderstood 2" in post initially replied to.

[Squirrelich]

2" is from the climable trait

rulebook pg. 44 "Models may move vertically up and down terrain with the climbable trait. Vertical movement costs double the distance moved"

1" up = 2" move

[spooky_squirrel]

1 minute ago, 7thSquirrel said:

2" is from the climable trait

rulebook pg. 44 "Models may move vertically up and down terrain with the climbable trait. Vertical movement costs double the distance moved"

1" up = 2" move

Ah, that's what I was overlooking. Thank you!

[ChirpOTK]

So say we treat the walls as climbable, hard cover, impassable. You could walk over it, but it would require an extra inch of movement to get up it. Could you charge over it? I suppose you can't climb during a charge lol

[Squirrelich]

9 minutes ago, ChirpOTK said:

I suppose you can't climb during a charge

From FAQ
49) Can a model climb Climbable terrain during a Charge Action?
Yes, a model only needs to move in a straight line from a top-down perspective. It may climb if it has the movement to do so.

However, in reference to to impassible, from page 74 of rulebook. "Impassable - Models cannot enter impassable areas of terrain".  So, if it has impassible you cannot move through it. Are you referring to "Blocking" which means you cannot see through it?

[ChirpOTK]

3 hours ago, Dogmantra said:

Fetid Strumpet is correct, although "blocking" actually means it blocks line of sight, "impassible" means you can't cross it. A smoke cloud might be blocking but not impassible for example.

The most common way to define ht1 walls I've seen is blocking, impassible, climbable and hard/soft cover. That way you can move through them but it will cost you 2" extra of movement.

A less common way is to call them severe instead of impassible so you can move through them with very little penalty (although this means you can be pushed through them)

There's no reason you couldn't agree that everyone can simply vault small walls without losing movement, and then you'd just not give them impassible or severe.

 

4 minutes ago, 7thSquirrel said:

From FAQ
49) Can a model climb Climbable terrain during a Charge Action?
Yes, a model only needs to move in a straight line from a top-down perspective. It may climb if it has the movement to do so.

However, in reference to to impassible, from page 74 of rulebook. "Impassable - Models cannot enter impassable areas of terrain" So, if it has impassible you cannot move through it. Are you referring to "Blocking" which means you cannot see through it?

 

The top quote is someone mentioning impassable walls. You can't walk through impassable terrain, but because it's height 1 you can easily climb over it. That's how I figured it.

[Squirrelich]

Fair enough. I would say @Dogmantra and I play impassible differently then. Not sure what the correct way to handle that would be now that I'm confronted with the situation.

[solkan]

7 minutes ago, 7thSquirrel said:

Fair enough. I would say @Dogmantra and I play impassible differently then. Not sure what the correct way to handle that would be now that I'm confronted with the situation.

There are some trait interactions in the rulebook where you're assumed to assigning different traits to different parts of the terrain element, particularly things like walls.  After all, the example given for walls is 'impassible, climbable, blocking, hard cover' which is expected to mean that you can climb the sides of the walls, the space occupied by the wall is impassible, but you can walk on top of it, and you can't see through the wall  but you may be able to see over it.  And similar situations involving buildings.

Hence people talking about charging across walls.

[Squirrelich]

1 minute ago, solkan said:

There are some trait interactions in the rulebook where you're assumed to assigning different traits to different parts of the terrain element, particularly things like walls.  After all, the example given for walls is 'impassible, climbable, blocking, hard cover' which is expected to mean that you can climb the sides of the walls, the space occupied by the wall is impassible, but you can walk on top of it, and you can't see through the wall  but you may be able to see over it.  And similar situations involving buildings.

Hence people talking about charging across walls.

oh look, if I look on the next page there it is... "Walls are sturdy emplacements that are typically built in a straight line (although stranger things than a crooked wall have happened in Malifaux). Walls have the blocking, hard cover, climbable, and impassable traits.". Thank you for the information.

[Dogmantra]

Yeah, impassable means you can't be physically inside the terrain piece (so no moving through walls), but you can still be on it. There is no trait for being unable to be on things, unless you count defining the air above it as impassable, which I tend to do with buildings.