Sandeep experiences so far?

[JoeCL]

Great questions - can't wait to hear people's answers. I can answer a few of them.

My favorite henchman for the time being is myranda. In order to do everything I want to do with Sandeep I bring arcane reservoir  on Sandeep and imbued energies on myranda. Cliche I know but I like having banasuva out early to start contolling the board or launching him into the opponents crew to cause chaos. Then my hope is to have cards left over to do other things.

I also bring a full cache of soul stones. The way I play him is very resource intensive. He might be considered more resource intensive than most other masters because your whole crew wants to take his actions in addition to sandeep himself.

[Franchute]

9 minutes ago, JoeCL said:

My favorite henchman for the time being is myranda. In order to do everything I want to do with Sandeep I bring arcane reservoir and imbued energies on myranda. 

Why arcane reservoir on Myranda? Once she shapeshifts, she loses the upgrade, doesn't she?

[spooky_squirrel]

6 minutes ago, Franchute said:

Why arcane reservoir on Myranda? Once she shapeshifts, she loses the upgrade, doesn't she?

Arcane Reservoir on Sandeep (cannot attach to Myranda when Master is present). It's something that you'll notice if you're relying on his summons and you don't bring it.

[JoeCL]

Edited for clarity. Arcane reservoir is on Sandeep. My point was I try to get as many cards in my hand as possible. I'd like to hear more people's answers to the questions posed by blackraw

[osoi]

3 hours ago, Blackraw said:

That is really cool that some discussion continues here. Sandeep, being kinda popular master and leaving many questions (and options) for crew-building.

Maybe we will deserved "sticked" thread one day  

For anyone eager to continue the discussion interesting to know your thoughts on the following:

1) Your favorite mercs for Sandeep?

2) Your favorite beaters for Sandeep (both)?

3) What henchmen do you use more often? Which one you never use with Sandeep?

 

And some more narrow topics:

1) Angelica vs. Cassandra for leave your mark games. With Cassie having nimble/understudy/decent attack and SS use in extra case, 2ss seems like a good price to pay. Though I like Angelica's pushes too. 

2) Heal options, do you prefer to have silent one/librarian to have some healing options apart Sandeep push trigger. I find it useful with H2K on some models but not sure if I would commit resources for some model only for this reason.

3) Have you ever find yourself in need to take trapper/Hans with Sandeep?

 

Not trying to make a questionnaire But I think that sharing some preferences with Sandeep crew-building can help people discover new options and most likely will prove how flexible Sandeep hiring can be.

1. I havent actually bothered to hire any mercs with Sandeep in my 30 odd games with him and never once felt I was losing out.

2. Favourite Beaters would be Banasuva, Howard, Joss and Arcane Emissary with Cassandra kind of pulling in here a little. I tend to find I can go light on beaters with Sandeep utilising models such as December Acolytes and Silent Ones combined with Sandeep with the Commands upgrade. Having a Summoned Metal Gamin with Commands in Wind moving around those models plus a minion copying Arcane Storm covers a lot of the damage dealing required.

3. Favourite Henchmen woudl hands down be Cassandra, seconded by Myranda and I need more games with Carlos when he comes out as he looks very tasty too.

 

I have run both Angelica and Cassandra in Leave Your Mark games, its not and either/or option Angelica helps out slower models such as a Silent One and Arcane Effigy or even Pushing about the Emissary to line up a charge while Cassandra is always very independent.

Heals are always coming from Silent Ones

I dont need mercs at all with Sandeep, if you want a Sniper take the aggressive one we have with a December Acolyte

[mythicFOX]

To @Blackraw's questions;

Right now the only mercenary I'm taking is Johan, because he's all sorts of awesome for 7ss.  Beater wise I'm getting on well with; Myrand-berus as my reach hitting, and Johan as my defense hitting.  Each operating from Ml 6 with a  flip, weak three, and access to 3+ attacks/turn gives you some very solid output while both also have good fringe benefits.  On commands Banasuva can also top this up effectively as well. 

For dedicated hitting games Miss Step (Howard) provides my primary punch. At range I like Acolyte with nearby Ice Gamin (Commands in Wind) for one of the more brutal Sh attacks in the game, over something like the Trapper or Hans.

Henchman wise, other than Myranda, I'm using one of the showgirls depending on the situation.  My practiced production caddie rotates between the three available options, they all have a good spot, although I find Angelica the least useful of the bunch.

[Blackraw]

Thanks for sharing opinions guys.

Completely agree that December Acolyte is excellent shooting unit, so I see no sense in snipers either. 

While I do not feel like I would always want to steal frozen heart with banasuva (getting extra demise or armor +2 are solid options making the choice not easy). Ice gamin with flips + acolyte looks nuts. 

As for the mercs - had an experience of running Johan only.

But I find that I may want Taelor/Hannah at some place.

With Hannah bringing enough benefit (+card, good to hold position with her 50mm and 3" engage, suits ban and decent defense, New Entry for extra heal/Push) I may justify her price (especially where I manage to deliver some nasty blasts)

Taleor price seems dependent on whether you are able to benefit from her "welcome" trick. If not, I find Johan relict hammer to be much more of a bargain and with hungry for cards crew I would opt for MI6 with  rather than MI7 w/o.

I like strongarm model, but can't think of reason to make him justified pick over other models at 11SS.

As for henchmen, waiting to get Carlos to give him a try. For a while thinking of Cassie for PP. I like Angelica's pushes for getting advantage on start, but further one, a dead wind gamin serve the same purpose but within the same activation.

Also haven't tried Kudra yet, not sure if I find a role for her.

Has anyone tried Aminu with Sandeep?

[retnab]

14 hours ago, Blackraw said:

1) Your favorite mercs for Sandeep?

2) Your favorite beaters for Sandeep (both)?

3) What henchmen do you use more often? Which one you never use with Sandeep?

 

And some more narrow topics:

1) Angelica vs. Cassandra for leave your mark games. With Cassie having nimble/understudy/decent attack and SS use in extra case, 2ss seems like a good price to pay. Though I like Angelica's pushes too. 

2) Heal options, do you prefer to have silent one/librarian to have some healing options apart Sandeep push trigger. I find it useful with H2K on some models but not sure if I would commit resources for some model only for this reason.

3) Have you ever find yourself in need to take trapper/Hans with Sandeep?

1) As mentioned above, I'm a regular user of Sue with Sandeep for more ranged presence and basically free card draw.

2) Howard, and Banasuva of course.  If I'm taking Howard I'm taking Enlightened Soul, as giving that monster Incorporeal can lead to some real fun times.

3) I've been doing a bunch of Academic skew lists lately, so Valedictorian but we've already talked about why she's not the best pick for every situation.  Cassie's great too, if you're needing PP or more spells.  I really dislike Kudra and feel like she just doesn't bring enough besides an extremely specific use ability to kill friendly Gamin.

 

1) Most of the time, Cassie.  Angie can work if you're doing the Ox Mages as they love getting the push, but then you're putting even more ss into that module.

2) Like a total madman, I typically bring no heals.  Between those two options I'd bring Silent Ones though, as I can always summon an Ice Gamin and give them a mirror target.

3) Nope.  I don't own a Trapper and Hans is untested.  I want to try Hans some time to see just how pinging off the mandatory summon upgrades goes, but I don't have high hopes besides it being a funny thing.

 

I haven't tried Amina with him yet, but I think I might!  Sounds like it could be fun, and stopping your opponent from killing Banasuva could be handy.

[Blackraw]

Hey guys, I hope we will continue sharing opinions. 

I see that most preferred henchmen looks to be Cassie/Myranda.

I gave Cassie a try on last tournament and I really liked her. From the first glance she looks "naked" defense-wised, but Souther Hospitality is so good. I wish it were "untill next activation" though. However, paired weapon or other built-in  may ruin her day.

I have not had a chance to try Understudy with her, but I really liked the combination of push-trigger and nimble and another mobile source of decent attack.

Also made a little challenge to myself to play all with Commands (even though there was a Headhunter in the pool) and use some tricks discussed here. I liked it. Ice Gamin with  pop'd on the first turn allowed me to maitain a pretty decent "bubble" when needed, which also gave me a chance to use Sandeep for his attack potential in one game, with  and no  it was good enough to worse his (1) APs. Not to say that 3/5/7 Acolyte on  met all my expectations. However on later turns where there is already more direct engagement, I like to get metal gaming with  so that Johan receives  as the Metal is M&SU and Banasuva can get 6 Df and +2 armor.

Now I guess I may give Myranda a go since it gets so much good feedback from you. How do you usually play it into Cerberus?
Since I find that Sandeep crew may want many mid-to-low cards (discards for focus on SVG, furious casting, Sandeep Beacon, Hospitality and other stuff; mid tomes/masks for (0), Leap and other stuff) I think that getting +4 cards on turn one to pick the good onee for turn 2/do extra summon on turn 1 is not that good as getting 4 extra cards on turn 2. But if you shapeshift on turn 2, you get slow'd Cerberus, i.e. no charge

[mythicFOX]

When to Myranda into a Cerberus will vary game to game depending on how when you want the card draw vs when you want the charging Cerberus.  It's very rare I go after turn two.

With; Myranda's 12" of walk + 50mm base + 7" leap + 1" melee, delivering even a slow Cerberus to the face of an opponent isn't difficult, depending on your hand (and you'll have just drawn four cards).  With even a single AP and a good tome in hand it's perfectly possible to take out objective runners and mid size targets the turn you shape shift.

I would say that on average 2/3 of the time I'm shifting turn two these days as that's when I want the cards.

[Blackraw]

1 hour ago, mythicFOX said:

When to Myranda into a Cerberus will vary game to game depending on how when you want the card draw vs when you want the charging Cerberus.  It's very rare I go after turn two.

With; Myranda's 12" of walk + 50mm base + 7" leap + 1" melee, delivering even a slow Cerberus to the face of an opponent isn't difficult, depending on your hand (and you'll have just drawn four cards).  With even a single AP and a good tome in hand it's perfectly possible to take out objective runners and mid size targets the turn you shape shift.

I would say that on average 2/3 of the time I'm shifting turn two these days as that's when I want the cards.

Makes sense, with 4 cards on first turn I can see the only benefit is fishing for 5-10  for summon/teleport and high cards for Banasuva and cheatinng so that you get them for the second turn. Which is also good (like you have drawn 4, discarded 4, but for free). But not that game-changing as 10-11 cards hand can be.

Another question which I think may be interesting as the subject for discussion is:

Sandeep is definitely really versile and all-rounded guy with flexbile hiring pool and both schemes/kill tricks. But is there any combination of schemes/strats which makes picking one of other Arcanists' masters much more advantegous comparing to going with Sandeep?

[spooky_squirrel]

10 hours ago, Blackraw said:

Makes sense, with 4 cards on first turn I can see the only benefit is fishing for 5-10  for summon/teleport and high cards for Banasuva and cheatinng so that you get them for the second turn. Which is also good (like you have drawn 4, discarded 4, but for free). But not that game-changing as 10-11 cards hand can be.

Another question which I think may be interesting as the subject for discussion is:

Sandeep is definitely really versile and all-rounded guy with flexbile hiring pool and both schemes/kill tricks. But is there any combination of schemes/strats which makes picking one of other Arcanists' masters much more advantegous comparing to going with Sandeep?

Short answer: More? Yes. Much more? Eh.. we'll see when the counters hit

 

Long answer: Sandeep is an all-rounder type, but he still doesn't do attrition on the same scale as Ramos. When you want the board flooded and choked with your stuff, Ramos is your guy. There are Schemes and Strategies where the opponent match-up makes it a perfect storm for Ramos. He doesn't scheme in the same way as Colette, so when the scenario is a perfect storm for Colette, she'll have a much more reliable effect on the board. I wouldn't say "much more" but I would say that they have an advantage into the right pools.

For instance: Ramos has a distinct advantage into Interference and Extraction. He can get more bodies there over the course of the game as his summons are not hard-capped on total in play. Over 5 turns you can put 15 spiders on the table and if none of them have died, you've got 15 spiders on the table. It takes Hamelin and Somer to keep up. When it comes to schemes, anything that relies on putting conditions on your models is doomed to failure. Ramos can controlled detonate things to clear conditions. The spiders themselves, if accused the turn they're summoned, can activate (when near two others) and turn into a swarm, losing the condition due to the model being sacrificed. Anything involving putting conditions on opponents or simply putting markers into play becomes trivial when you can crank out a ton of spiders. His strengths are dependent on your hand (and getting the first couple of scrap markers into play).

Colette's advantages come into play with anything that involves a lot of interacts. Showgirls and Minions can treat a (1) interact as a (0) so long as they're within her aura, allowing them to do a whole lot more during the turn. She can on an upgrade (2) to give everyone the ability to discard a marker to take a (1) action out of activation, and when you have a model that's been dialed up to do more work, she can prompt it for extra work. If needed, that model can be reactivated for its Final Act in order to get more work done. Her strengths are dependent on your crew.

Sandeep needs both hand and crew for early game advantage, in my experience.

[admiralvorkraft]

Sandeep can do everything, but the way his card is set up he never will. It's impossible to draw enough of the right cards to fuel all of his tricks so you it's a matter of planning the optimal turn around the resources you have. I would compare him to a pre-Errata Lucius in terms of resource intensity but you get much more dramatic results for the effort.

Comparatively, Ramos is very resource light - at most you need a couple activations of setup on turn one, a stone and an 8+ thereafter. Colette generates her own resources (stones for cards, free suit each turn, extra AP, etc.). Raspy is still dead solid, if dependent on her crew - her control game is second only to Pandora. Kaeris and Ironsides can play the isolate-and-eliminate game pretty well, and Mei Feng is still our premier Denial master (so long as your opponent isn't too Ml heavy).

I think the master that suffers the most is Marcus. His strength is also in his flexibility and I'm struggling to imagine a time when he outperforms Sandeep except maybe on the Alpha Strike.

[Blackraw]

2 hours ago, spooky_squirrel said:

Short answer: More? Yes. Much more? Eh.. we'll see when the counters hit

 

Long answer: Sandeep is an all-rounder type, but he still doesn't do attrition on the same scale as Ramos. When you want the board flooded and choked with your stuff, Ramos is your guy. There are Schemes and Strategies where the opponent match-up makes it a perfect storm for Ramos. He doesn't scheme in the same way as Colette, so when the scenario is a perfect storm for Colette, she'll have a much more reliable effect on the board. I wouldn't say "much more" but I would say that they have an advantage into the right pools.

For instance: Ramos has a distinct advantage into Interference and Extraction. He can get more bodies there over the course of the game as his summons are not hard-capped on total in play. Over 5 turns you can put 15 spiders on the table and if none of them have died, you've got 15 spiders on the table. It takes Hamelin and Somer to keep up. When it comes to schemes, anything that relies on putting conditions on your models is doomed to failure. Ramos can controlled detonate things to clear conditions. The spiders themselves, if accused the turn they're summoned, can activate (when near two others) and turn into a swarm, losing the condition due to the model being sacrificed. Anything involving putting conditions on opponents or simply putting markers into play becomes trivial when you can crank out a ton of spiders. His strengths are dependent on your hand (and getting the first couple of scrap markers into play.

Colette's advantages come into play with anything that involves a lot of interacts. Showgirls and Minions can treat a (1) interact as a (0) so long as they're within her aura, allowing them to do a whole lot more during the turn. She can on an upgrade (2) to give everyone the ability to discard a marker to take a (1) action out of activation, and when you have a model that's been dialed up to do more work, she can prompt it for extra work. If needed, that model can be reactivated for its Final Act in order to get more work done. Her strengths are dependent on your crew.

Sandeep needs both hand and crew for early game advantage, in my experience.

I see the rationale. The Ramos examples make sense. I found Sandeep summoning suicide gamins (poping it at enemy bubble) to be exposed to "mark for death". With the accusation, it is a little bit easier (since you can interact in engage/teleport with Sandeep cast) or kill the gamin too.

I would say that all-roundness has its pros and cons. Whilst to some degree it is a trap, it also allows to practice one master better. As for me I am gonna stay with Sandeep on tourney until I face some obstacle leading me to idea that I need another guy for this. But I was curious to know what other Sandeep players use different masters for.

Gonna get more experiments for fun games though. Also hope that Wyrd will make some interesting new Emissary upgrade for Sandeep with next Arsenal deck. 

[JoeCL]

Sorry to backtrack but I wanted to mention one good thing about the cerberus is there's generally not much else competing for the higher book cards he needs to eat face.

[Fictor]

Cmon guys... Ramon can't summon 15 arachnids in 15 turns... for do that he need 5ss, five scrap marquers and five 11+ this is a dream.

[admiralvorkraft]

It's technically possible, but no. I usually summon about ten and never have more than 6 on the board at once. At that point he has something better to do with his AP.

[Adran]

14 minutes ago, Fictor said:

Cmon guys... Ramon can't summon 15 arachnids in 15 turns... for do that he need 5ss, five scrap marquers and five 11+ this is a dream.

Its perfectly possible to happen. Yes, it won't happen every game, but it does demonstrate that Ramos will do numbers better than Sandeep. After all its possible that Ramos will summon as many minions on turn 1 as Sandeeep will all game. (and its not that hard to arrange that you have 5 scrap and 5 soulstones. 5 11+ is much less in your control, but if this is your aim, and you save every 11+ for summoning the swarm then you are looking about 1 every 5 games getting the cards in hand)

So Ramos will do numbers better than Sandeep. Rasputina does ranged area damage better that Sandeep. Colette does schemeing better than Sandeep. 

I would say that Marcus does mobility better than any other master in the game (largely due to his hiring pool). If you want to do stake a claim, then you are not going to be able to build a faster list than a Marcus list (for example). Sandeep can get close, but on the whole he can't go as fast.

 

[mythicFOX]

On average I expect Ramos to summon ten Arachnids across the game.  Which is more than Sandeep who will be closer to four in my experience.  Ramos also isn't subject to a model cap, so can have as many in play as he wants.

As to when it's better to take someone else other than Sandeep;

I could make an argument that Sandeep is our faction's first all rounder master, there isn't currently an objective set where he can't compete.  Partly this is because unlike all our other masters he doesn't get in the way of crew selection by demanding you spend 25ss on his core before you start selecting a crew.  This all rounder status magnifies his power because you can get more practice and become more proficient with him, rather than have to flit between masters to cover your bases.  

Does this make him strictly better than our other masters at all the objective sets?  Probably not.   I'd argue he's strictly the best choice for Squatters Rights, and top tier for Headhunter.  For other strategies I could make the case;  Ramos, Rasputina, and Marcus are better choices, particularly in; Reckoning, and Collect the Bounty.  This though is tempered by the need to be proficient with those masters.  

I'm currently having a significant debate with myself about which other master(s) I should be keeping in my tournament rotation with Sandeep.  I'm leaning towards Raspy, if only because I've just picked up the classic sculpt.

[retnab]

Haven't seen this brought up yet, what does everyone hope/want to see when we eventually get Sandeep's Emissary upgrade? I'm figuring it'll either be Gamin (so Banasuva can summon off it) or Academic (synergies!). Hopefully it gets some kind of aura buff, maybe for nearby casts? Or if it got Beacon... I wouldn't mind two Negations each turn!

[spooky_squirrel]

7 hours ago, Fictor said:

Cmon guys... Ramon can't summon 15 arachnids in 15 turns... for do that he need 5ss, five scrap marquers and five 11+ this is a dream.

15 in 5 turns is technically possible, but as others pointed out, not terribly likely. The only real limiting factor is the hand control; Ramos Spider Factory typically starts with a 7 stone cache and has multiple ways of generating scrap. One reliable way is the whole Electric Creation being shot by Joss, which generates two scrap. You wouldn't do this normally, but if you wanted more scrap without killing your own spiders, you might use the Electric Creation summoning upgrade that Ramos has so that you can pop out another one in Turn 2 and let Joss kill it again, getting you two more scrap for the cost of a (0) action and a 7.

I used it as an example of best case scenario, because if we're going to talk about the potential of masters, we need to look at both their highs and their lows. I also use it as an example because this past weekend I played Ramos into Gremlins and out-activated them from Turn 2 onwards, before Joss and Luther even got to killing stuff. I had two consecutive turns of summoning 3 spiders, because my starting control hand was a 13, 11, and Black Joker.

As others have said, Ramos typically won't summon more than 10 in a game (expectation of 2/turn is not unreasonable) and typically won't have more than a half dozen out. Which is why I bring up Ramos as an attrition master: for 1 AP he can summon as many minions (def 6, likely at a positive due to Field Generator) as Sandeep is capped at for a game. They serve a very different role, however. Sandeep's Gamin are coming in to be force multipliers and control pieces for Sandeep's main effort, whether Commands or Visions. Ramos' spiders are the main effort.

Ramos' weak spot is that his crew is centered around Ramos with 6 stones in upgrades, Joss, and a 3-4 stone construct that will serve as the catalyst to start the factory. These are the three models you break out when you're running a tutorial on how to kick off the spider factory. This is the thing that @mythicFOX is talking about when it comes to masters and their 'auto-include' core. From here, the spider factory does have some variance, but generally not a whole lot, which brings up the second feature of this weak spot: Ramos is typically predictable to play against for the first 3-4 turns. If I'm playing against a Ramos player who has any practice at all in the summoning engine, I know what the first two or three activations of the first turn are going to be. I know what the shaping actions of the second turn will be. From knowing the sequence of the first turn and shaping actions of the second turn, I can readily predict how turn 3 will go if Ramos is left alone to do his thing that long.
There's only one real question that Ramos is asking during that game, and that question has some hard answers. To see what I'm talking about, run Ramos' box into the Viks' box (both sides with decent practice with their respective crews).

[spooky_squirrel]

8 hours ago, Adran said:

I would say that Marcus does mobility better than any other master in the game (largely due to his hiring pool). If you want to do stake a claim, then you are not going to be able to build a faster list than a Marcus list (for example). Sandeep can get close, but on the whole he can't go as fast.

Sandeep and his summons can get to one specific area with the same kind of target fixation that the Viks can. If you play the Myranda/IE shift you can get a second long-range threat vector, but you're not covering the same kind of ground and those models are not shunting up the table to spend 2AP dropping a claim marker.

I think for sheer mobility, Marcus and Lucas McCabe are the top dogs. They each have their tricks that can put their crews across the table in a hurry, with plenty of AP to spare on minions that get a lot of work done for their cost under those masters.

[Blackraw]

@mythicFOX

I am in a very similar situation. Run 3 tourney with Sandeep (placed 2/1/1) and can not find a reason not to take him (so my question about other masters was mere curiosity).

He is still new to many players, he is flexible in playstyle, he's hiring pull lets you pick what you want.

I am getting Rasputina now (still painting) to have an alternative where I really want it (rather than need). Will try her out on some friendly-play though

The masters you describe as being more well-suited to some scheme/strat pools I think also have a minor disadvantage here - a) they may be expectable for that pools and b ) they may be more predictable as all goes around their feature, which to may mind lead to the idea that you can go against a good counter.

@spooky_squirrelWith Ramos summon engine, hard to deny its sheer numbers efficiency, but with my meta/experience I see the following thing:

a) With my experience, tourney games tend to end at Turn 3 in average due to time limits. Which means that with hand and scrap markers max out at 9 2-wound spiders (which you may heal with Johan though). However that is already resource intense - you need stone + scrap + card. You are limited by scrap markers. Sandeep needs more AP, but can deliver more game-changing models (full health, upgrades, where you need them). To my mind this allows for better "Alpha" VP-wise, allowing activation control early on and more VP on turns 2-3. Also in Howard+Joss list Ramos would most likely start with less activations than Sandeep.

Again, not trying to deny Ramos summon efficiency. Just feel like with short games (turn-wise) Sandeep summon is more efficient to score VPs.

[spooky_squirrel]

30 minutes ago, Blackraw said:

With Ramos summon engine, hard to deny its sheer numbers efficiency, but with my meta/experience I see the following thing:

a) With my experience, tourney games tend to end at Turn 3 in average due to time limits. Which means that with hand and scrap markers max out at 9 2-wound spiders (which you may heal with Johan though). However that is already resource intense - you need stone + scrap + card. You are limited by scrap markers. Sandeep needs more AP, but can deliver more game-changing models (full health, upgrades, where you need them). To my mind this allows for better "Alpha" VP-wise, allowing activation control early on and more VP on turns 2-3. Also in Howard+Joss list Ramos would most likely start with less activations than Sandeep.

Again, not trying to deny Ramos summon efficiency. Just feel like with short games (turn-wise) Sandeep summon is more efficient to score VPs.

Absolutely. In shorter games (3-4 turn max due to time constraints and speed of play) something that hits fast and hard will generally do better. If you've got enough practice with handling summoners (the local Hamelin player and I have been practicing more), your game doesn't slow down a whole lot on your end--though your opponent may find themselves trying to figure out how to deal with it. You'll still want to pick your schemes with the realization that you might not get a full five turns in.

For the full attrition package, you bring along Bleeding Edge Tech and someone like Johan so that you have a one-off heal that gets a bubble as well as a regeneration effect. In attrition play you're not shooting for a turn 1 or 2 alpha strike, you're grinding your opponent down, turning their alpha strike into a futile effort to bring your numbers down and keeping them from scheming by getting your spiders (in Ramos' case) into every bit of business that you can. Sandeep can play similarly (but not as effectively) because his summons are high enough value where they need to be dealt with, and every AP being spent on killing summoned things is AP not being spent on schemes or on killing your hired crew.
Where the numbers come into play in attrition is how many AP you spend summoning versus how many AP your opponent spends killing what you summoned. Sandeep's Beacon ability gives you the ability to summon at the cost of 0 AP (discarded card, tome on copied ability--which is relatively reliable if you're copying with an Oxfordian Mage), which is unbeatable on its own. However, the hard cap on how many things he can summon does actually affect how good that really is, especially since each upgrade confers a bonus and penalty that are situational. These limitations keep his summoning (and thus summoning-based attrition) down.

In my meta, the biggest 'problem' Sandeep opponents see is his mobility being combined with Impossible to Wound (while having soulstone prevention) and the ability to summon something like Banasuva. These are things that combine neatly into a solid alpha strike package. The added ability to tailor summoned Gamin to fit the job is what gives Sandeep better control (and more quickly) of the battlefield than Ramos, provided the unique ability isn't already attached to someone that's somewhere else (this is where Kudra's personal upgrade becomes invaluable).

[Blackraw]

14 minutes ago, spooky_squirrel said:

Sandeep can play similarly (but not as effectively) because his summons are high enough value where they need to be dealt with, and every AP being spent on killing summoned things is AP not being spent on schemes or on killing your hired crew.
 

I had a game against bubbled'up McMorning. With standard deployment I ran for first turn summon, popping up poison gamin + Banasuva (which copied poison demise) at the bubble. Of course my summons died (leaving 3*1 damage +1 burning +2 poison (which was affected by opponents own catalyst). On the second turn I re-summon that combo again and retreated. By the time my opponent dealt with both summon packs, he got solid damage of demises. At the same time I used my time to position Ox Trio set in a perfect gunline on different flanks of Extraction marker, ready to finish wounded opponents who go for marker. So that was basically a successful attrition, where I traded few SS + cards and master's AP for opponent spending most of his AP to eventually get his own hired models wounded. Sounds like a bargain