Whiskey Golem and WarPig Upgrades

[EpicWaffle]

I was looking at Malifaux Musing blog about RoF gremlins and I got really interested by the W. Golem and the Warpig dedicated upgrades (respectably 1ss and 0ss) and wanted to hear some ideas about it since on my last post I'm getting so many good advices 

They re two models that I find pretty awesome but I find myself using them not do often, aside for the whiskey golem with mah (which works suprisely well in the right context) or with brewie, (tho I don't think it really fits his crew well), and the Warpig with ulix.

The one I'm Moore exited about is the one for the Warpig, which makes him ignore set er off , boost his wp adding 2 and give him  to his flips (tho I dunno if it's automatic or you need an action for the +) at the cost of 0 ss! In fact I'm starting to think about a couple crew to fit him, like and Elite somer or Ophelia one! Or might be a meaner companion for Burt. I don't know it seem to me that help him out a lot and make it less risky to have it on your side.

In regard of the one for the Whiskey Golem, it's nice since this way you are not forced to use smokey finish since you get it free if you hit the right trigger (tome or ram if I'm not mistaken), so it should make him more solid (since I noticed that, even tho he has armor +1 and 9 wounds, when he's at 5df, he's not so hard to take down if focused and  being ht3 it's hard to stay hidden)

 

Thanks for your feed back  

 

Edit

Sorry, I really don't know why but it double posted the topic and I don't know how to delete it

[Nosilloc]

You have to discard the warpig upgrade to use it. So it's only good for one turn. And you can't put it on a summoned warpig and why would you ever pay soul stones for a warpig in Ulix's crew? It was a nice idea but for me it really missed its mark. 

I like whiskey's upgrade. Probably won't be taking the flurry upgrade in enforcer brawls anymore.

[Dogmantra]

3 minutes ago, Nosilloc said:

why would you ever pay soul stones for a warpig in Ulix's crew?

So you can take the upgrade

[Blacks85]

The whisky golem is a 0ss upgrade too, I guess?

However...you had no reason to hire a warpig in general.

Now, it can be a pretty devastating one-shotter with this upgrade, I will give it a try this noon

[EpicWaffle]

11 hours ago, Nosilloc said:

You have to discard the warpig upgrade to use it. So it's only good for one turn. And you can't put it on a summoned warpig and why would you ever pay soul stones for a warpig in Ulix's crew? It was a nice idea but for me it really missed its mark. 

Well what I was thinking was more about hiring a war pig in other crews aside from the ulix one, since it's obvious that with ulix you would be wasting soulstones hiring one while you can summon it pretty easily .

The idea I had in mind was Moore like using him as a meat shield that can escort people like Ophelia, Somer using truffles, while being a dangerous threat to the enemy (no one wants a pen angry piglet charging in your crew ranks). 

I'll admit it I really like the miniature of the War Pig so I was trying to find a way to use him outside of his usual context with ulix and while yeah, I'm totally with you when you say they missed the mark while having a good idea (it's for sure not a meta changing news), I don't think it's that bad too. Ignoring set er off and having +2 will power for 0 soulstones it's still good imo, and I think the war pig by itself can waste a lot of the enemy activation (or cause some good havoc in a better scenario) in the right context. Especially against a crew that don't really have too many ways of dealing with the war pig, or at least can't one shot it/disable it as soon as he charge, and need to focus on him a lot of activations. This is valid only if when you ment that you have to discard it, you were referring only to the + side of the upgrade and not to the wp/set er off part 

[Four_N_Six]

I think the only problem with the warpig upgrade is that it can't be attached to a summoned one.  Ulix would never hire it.  For 9 Stones, if you want to hire it with a different master, there are better options available.  If you need someone dragging something around just toss out Gracie, she can tank better generally.  Personally I would just use Franciois if I wanted a big bad beater

[EpicWaffle]

1 hour ago, Four_N_Six said:

I think the only problem with the warpig upgrade is that it can't be attached to a summoned one.  Ulix would never hire it.  For 9 Stones, if you want to hire it with a different master, there are better options available.  If you need someone dragging something around just toss out Gracie, she can tank better generally.  Personally I would just use Franciois if I wanted a big bad beater

True

Guess I'll use it just for the sake of deploying him and See what can happen xD thx to all for the feedback!

[Nosilloc]

2 hours ago, EpicWaffle said:

This is valid only if when you ment that you have to discard it, you were referring only to the + side of the upgrade and not to the wp/set er off part 

The upgrade has no passive effects. You aren't immune to set er off and you don't get any buffs except the turn you pitch it. And unless you have pork whispirin (which is an upgrade now) it's really easy for that war pig to charge your own guys. 

[EpicWaffle]

22 minutes ago, Nosilloc said:

The upgrade has no passive effects. You aren't immune to set er off and you don't get any buffs except the turn you pitch it. And unless you have pork whispirin (which is an upgrade now) it's really easy for that war pig to charge your own guys. 

Ok this is something.. Definitely not worth and I get why you said they missed the mark, and totally on accord with it. 

It's too risky to take it white out pork whispering and rip for my ideas xD

 

[Blacks85]

I've tried it today and - probably with Ulix - is worth to hire a WarPig rather than a The Sow now.

It's definitively a beast when he discard that potentially doing 3 charge with + to everything

#Insane with the Wong magical conditions

[EpicWaffle]

1 hour ago, Blacks85 said:

I've tried it today and - probably with Ulix - is worth to hire a WarPig rather than a The Sow now.

It's definitively a beast when he discard that potentially doing 3 charge with + to everything

#Insane with the Wong magical conditions

Really? Good to hear  did you tried it with Wong?

Also if you rate it better than the sow it must work really well cause the sow sure is a beast once she gets in action

[Dogmantra]

16 hours ago, Four_N_Six said:

I think the only problem with the warpig upgrade is that it can't be attached to a summoned one. 

I actually think this is a really elegant solution to the War Pig issue that also plagues a few Resurrectionist models - they're great summons, but hiring them generally costs a bit too much and is a little situational. This is a great way to buff a model in the way it could do with buffing (i.e. when hired) without inadvertently making the summon even better.

FWIW I've had a chance to try it out too, I went with it on Ulix and used the initial War Pig to put pressure on my opponent while I could build up a little more of a summoned force than I normally do. It worked pretty well, and when you get the chance to discard the upgrade it's pretty fun

[Blacks85]

15 hours ago, EpicWaffle said:

Really? Good to hear  did you tried it with Wong?

Also if you rate it better than the sow it must work really well cause the sow sure is a beast once she gets in action

Yes, I've tried it with Wong and it did 3 charge the turn I've discarded the upg.

It just wiped out half a crew lol

[EpicWaffle]

39 minutes ago, Blacks85 said:

Yes, I've tried it with Wong and it did 3 charge the turn I've discarded the upg.

It just wiped out half a crew lol

Lol! Than. I'll have to try it for sure hoping to have as much succes as you had xD

[Goopy]

I think Gremlins got some of the worst 'fix' or general upgrades in the new book. Why did we need Hog Whispering? No clue. 

 

But on the other hand we already had the best upgrades in the game (dirty cheater, on your tip toes, stilts) so it really balances out I think. 

[Math Mathonwy]

13 hours ago, Goopy said:

But on the other hand we already had the best upgrades in the game (dirty cheater, on your tip toes, stilts) so it really balances out I think. 

Do you really think that those are better than what Arcanists, Outcasts, TT and Neverborn get as generics? I strongly disagree, for what it's worth. And now the disparity is even bigger (we are at the bottom of the pile with Guild (and kinda the Ressers but they are a special case) while the other four factions soar high above.

[Dogmantra]

50 minutes ago, Math Mathonwy said:

Do you really think that those are better than what Arcanists, Outcasts, TT and Neverborn get as generics? I strongly disagree, for what it's worth. And now the disparity is even bigger (we are at the bottom of the pile with Guild (and kinda the Ressers but they are a special case) while the other four factions soar high above.

If there was a tier list, I'd probably put Dirty Cheater somewhere in A tier (things like Imbued Energies & Oathkeeper get to be in S tier above that), but otherwise I think I agree with you. I love On Yer Tip Toes but it's B tier at best imo.

[Four_N_Six]

Fears given form is extremely brutal in a faction with at least 2 good in your face masters. So it's hard to believe we have the best in the game. We have good ones. Hide in the mud is great if you know you'll need it. Stilts is good against the melee masters, or Francios to not murder himself 

[Blacks85]

With upgrades, yeah we have prety bad ones a part dirty cheater...

but as faction we are absolutely the strongest one

[Dogmantra]

4 hours ago, Dogmantra said:

If there was a tier list, I'd probably put Dirty Cheater somewhere in A tier (things like Imbued Energies & Oathkeeper get to be in S tier above that), but otherwise I think I agree with you. I love On Yer Tip Toes but it's B tier at best imo.

I made a tier list for gremlin generic upgrades, this is all IMO obviously, and with the caveat that I haven't yet used the ROF upgrades so they may be better than I expect.

Explanation of the tiers

S Tier: Fantastic upgrade, works very well with any model that can take it, very little to no reason not to take this upgrade as many times as possible.

A Tier: Great upgrade, works very well with most models that can take it but isn't quite an auto-take

B Tier: A good upgrade, either has one trick it does well or works as a generally decent pick for many situations.

C Tier: An okay upgrade. Either an upgrade that's quite useful in specific situations or one that is generally okay in some to most situations.

D Tier: Not often worth considering. Normally avoided or only taken as part of a very specific strategy.

Trash Tier: Never even considered. Not worth the stones and upgrade slot.

 

The List Itself

S Tier: None (examples from other factions: Oathkeeper, Imbued Energies)

A Tier: Dirty Cheater

B Tier: Stilts, Liquid Bravery, On Yer Tiptoes

C Tier: Quality Mash Liquor, Show Off, Hide in the Mud, Pork Whisperin, Do Over

D Tier: None (example from another faction: Lead Lined Coat)

Trash Tier: The Guardian Stone

[daniello_s]

@Dogmantra I would consider Dirty Cheater as S Tier to be honest especially when you consider taking it on models who can either deal huge/solid damage on their triggers with cost of single wound (Somer/Ophelia) or can greatly benefit from extra AP for the cost of single wound (Francisco, Burt and few others).

This upgrade should be treated as Oathkeeper in Outcasts - almost always to be taken by someone.

[Four_N_Six]

If you look at Dirty Cheater as a counter balance to Reckless, then it's worth it just there. 

[Adran]

On Dogmantras tier definition, Dirty Cheater is not a S class, but I think it is a better upgrade than Oathkeeper or Imbued energies are, especially when used in the faction who use their wounds as a resource naturally. But there are probably some gremlin models that don't want dirty cheater, where any model is made better with +1 AP

[EpicWaffle]

I think that gremlins upgrade are just there to complete certain model in order to make them work better

Like for Francois, where, as said, he has not to suicide in order to dish out a ton of damage in 1 hit, using Stilts, or Liquid Bravery if you're against neverborn, dirty cheater on Burt to make him use reckless more freely.

They might not be the best, but I think that aside from guardian stone, which I personally dislike, they all do their job pretty well  

[Bazlord_Prime]

Just tried a hired-in Warpig the other day, with Brewmaster. Had Trixiebelle "Lure" it twice upfield 1st turn, then it rampaged and killed 2 models. Result!

Wish I'd had the 0 upgrade tho (we decided against using RoF stuff) - i would've been more confident about sending the Pig against harder targets.

Edit: sry - point being, a big hired pig can be an incredible shock trooper in any list that has Trixiebelle (remember - pushes ignore severe terrain ;-)