Nellie: Propaganda multiple triggers? Wording clarification.

[Hagisman]

Hello,

Can I use a trigger more than once if that trigger was not a bonus trigger. So here is the wording of the Propaganda multi-trigger:

Quote

...to declare an additional number of Triggers equal to the value of the Evidence Condition lowered. The same Trigger may not be taken more than once this way.

The question is does "this way" include every trigger of the action or only those that were generated by the Evidence Condition being lowered?

Currently my thought is no, but rereading the rule has made me question this.

Example, you can:

Quote

1. Succeed on Propaganda
2. Trigger Angry Mob
3. Trigger additional trigger Shock
4. Trigger additional trigger Angry Mob.

Because Angry Mob was taken as a normal trigger not as an additional trigger originally.

Example, you can't:

1. Succeed on Propaganda
2. Trigger Angry Mob
3. Trigger additional trigger Shock
4. Cannot trigger Angry mob again

Because Angry Mob was already taken during this action.

[lusciousmccabe]

The text is specifically there to tell you that her ability to declare multiple Triggers does not allow you to declare the same Trigger more than once. I can't see any other way of reading that isn't wilful misinterpretation. 

[Artiee]

I can see what you are talking about.  I would go with your 2nd group.   Since it says additional number of Triggers.

[Ludvig]

A trigger can only be declared once but you can use multiple triggers.

If you use the trigger twice that way (by using the option to lower propaganda to declare more) you have broken the rules.

If another model in the future allows models within  5 to declare the same trigger twice, Nellie will still be allowed to do that since her own way is the only one not permitted. 

[solkan]

And I think the "I'm going to use this mechanism to take the same trigger twice" is trying to put the wrong emphasis on that last sentence.

2 hours ago, Hagisman said:

.to declare an additional number of Triggers equal to the value of the Evidence Condition lowered. The same Trigger may not be taken more than once this way.

Because you'd still be attempting to take the same trigger twice.  You're just arguing over how you managed to do it.

Note that there are minor corner cases where the order matters.  So keep in mind that it's:

* Cheat fate

* Declare triggers (all of them, if you're declaring multiple triggers)

* Determine success

 

[lusciousmccabe]

41 minutes ago, Hagisman said:

So you declare Angry Mob, Shock, and then Angry Mob again you get two attacks because the trigger was taken twice and you can space out the order.

Why does the order matter? As I understand it you declare N+1 Triggers in place of 1 by lowering your Evidence by N and decide what order they will resolve in; while doing this you may not declare the same Trigger more than once. I'm see what the distinction between initial and additional Triggers is or how it lets you declare Angry Mob more than once.

EDIT: As an aside, if you know what you're doing the person you're hitting should really be beside Phiona Gage, in which case they'll be getting hit twice anyway. And if they've already activated and she's got her upgrade on chances are two hits is probably going to be enough to kill them anyway.   

[Ludvig]

Sorry, I was unclear. I meant she is allowed to bypass the normal rules, that was not very clear in my post.

"More than once this way" refers to the whole above paragraph and way of bypassing normal rules. During the course of the entire action and "this way" of bypassing the rules no trigger may be declared more than once. (Should be "that way" grammatically but I was using an exact quote for emphasis) The order you say them doesn't change anything about that.

[Hidelfon]

Doesn't it say that you cannot declare the same trigger twice? 

Can someone confirm this? Please 

[Hagisman]

9 minutes ago, Hidelfon said:

Doesn't it say that you cannot declare the same trigger twice? 

Can someone confirm this? Please 

It says "cannot use the same trigger twice this way."

[Hagisman]

9 minutes ago, Ludvig said:

A trigger can only be declared once but you can use multiple triggers.

If you use the trigger twice that way (by using the option to lower propaganda to declare more) you have broken the rules.

If another model in the future allows models within  5 to declare the same trigger twice, Nellie will still be allowed to do that since her own way is the only one not permitted. 

But already Nellie's action denies the standard rules of how triggers work. She can declare multiple triggers and can choose the order. So taking a trigger a second time means that she can choose to take it then take it again.

So you declare Angry Mob, Shock, and then Angry Mob again you get two attacks because the trigger was taken twice and you can space out the order.