May 30 - Asami

[D_acolyte]

15 hours ago, solkan said:

Suppose someone made a figure depicting a monster or demon from Japanese mythology, and kept the depiction of that model accurate to how the images for that monster depicted the monster in that era.  How would you expect it to me depicted?

For ease of reference, quoting from page two of the thread:

Japanese demon lady with weird wavy hair, a misshapen face, and a misshapen body.  It's supposed to be disturbing.

 

Yep I was watching something when I remembered her. I was going to post that this morning but you beat me to it. On a side note I am really torn between her and Titania.

[tomjoad]

15 hours ago, SpiralngCadavr said:

That's a really obviously modern illustration, so is not a good reference piece.

The hair is not my taste, but not a problem with the concept.

The wide, heavily lidded eyes is just shy of yellow-face taped eyelid-style stereotype, based on chinese stereotypes and facial structures, not japanese. If going for a japanese-styled mimic of the aesthetics rather than reality, you'd see one with shallow features and extremely high/faint eyebrows, the airbrushed look. An exaggeratedly tall/oblong face with features that are too small wouldn't be out of the question, while a squished one with large features is probably unheard of. 

The extreme forward hunch is also linked closely with western caricatures (of propagandized/parodied subhuman asians). The style of the time would be droopy/natural shoulders or exaggeratedly pointy ones. A downward tilt to the head and or exaggerated emphasis on the shoulders and collar, emphasizing the neck, is pretty common with representations of women.

Those sleeves... they're just made out of problems. Yes, asian fashions often had crazy sleeves, but no, they looked nothing like that. Kirai's triangular and layered ones are pretty reasonable examples. I don't think I've ever seen anyone outside a racist stereotype wear ones like those, though. I think the hooks are ridiculous, but that's just taste.

Well heck...this is either my inability to parse details in art, or just my ingrained western eyes, but I did not see/realize any of this. Just shows why you really need to have a lot of varied perspectives on things like this, since things like the hunch or sleeves are not things I would have connected to any racial caricature, let alone an Asian one. But if you're feeling that, then it's probably safe to guess you aren't going to be alone. Thank you for explaining your point of view.

[SpiralngCadavr]

tom, thanks!

Kuro, because it's just some random person's interpretation of it, nothing traditional there. It's a poor copy of some famous images that, like my complaints with the model, suffers from a very superficial understanding of the aesthetic. A translation isn't as good as the original, especially if the original is still accessible.

Didn't say anything about sex that I remember, and on the sleeves that's a fair point, I guess it just stood out as part of one more stereotype in collection of them that made the caricature.

 

[huntroll]

13 hours ago, SpiralngCadavr said:

tom, thanks!

Kuro, because it's just some random person's interpretation of it, nothing traditional there. It's a poor copy of some famous images that, like my complaints with the model, suffers from a very superficial understanding of the aesthetic. A translation isn't as good as the original, especially if the original is still accessible.

Didn't say anything about sex that I remember, and on the sleeves that's a fair point, I guess it just stood out as part of one more stereotype in collection of them that made the caricature.

 

I think you should just take off those problem-glasses, mate. You dislike the sculpt, we get it (so do I), but it's simply a not-so-well-done sculpt, at least judging by the previews and not some horrendous attack on the Asian people and their cultures done by evil white males who have no clue about the rest of the world.

[Linus Mcmold]

Just wanted to say that I usually prefer the art and this is the first time I like the render better.

Can't wait to see if she's the Oni that has been mentioned.

EDIT
Lol, some of the dialogue in this thread reminds me I have to turn in a paper for my college that is long overdue.

[SpiralngCadavr]

8 hours ago, huntroll said:

I think you should just take off those problem-glasses, mate. You dislike the sculpt, we get it (so do I), but it's simply a not-so-well-done sculpt, at least judging by the previews and not some horrendous attack on the Asian people and their cultures done by evil white males who have no clue about the rest of the world.

So... lower your standards because other stuff is weaker, too?

I just don't understand this model of thought. No, I don't think it's any sort of targeted attack, but just one more miss that happens to stumble into some problems. And I'm pointing it out because I think it could be done better. Instead of saying "lower your standards to the worst in the line" I'd prefer to say "raise your standards to the highest in the line." Every time a consumer says "meh, that thing's lazy or bad but I'll still buy it" is an incentive for a company to make more lazy things instead of trying to keep the bar higher.

[solkan]

I think it's important to focus on the important matter on hand:  When is this poll going to close?

Because it's a lot of work trying to ensure that it results in a tie. 

[CougDyver]

40 minutes ago, SpiralngCadavr said:

So... lower your standards because other stuff is weaker, too?

I just don't understand this model of thought. No, I don't think it's any sort of targeted attack, but just one more miss that happens to stumble into some problems. And I'm pointing it out because I think it could be done better. Instead of saying "lower your standards to the worst in the line" I'd prefer to say "raise your standards to the highest in the line." Every time a consumer says "meh, that thing's lazy or bad but I'll still buy it" is an incentive for a company to make more lazy things instead of trying to keep the bar higher.

I think just based on a single render it is rather harsh to say this model was done poorly or lazily.  Especially since it was hinted there may be more to the model than what we see, and also because we know nothing of the fluff/design behind the model.  Plus, despite what has suddenly become the consensus, there are some of us that like this model (specifically the hooks on the sleeves seem cool to me).  Everyone has a right to not like the model, but I think it is important to acknowledge that also has to do with personal preferences, and not simply that wyrd did a "lazy job".

And, as solkan mentioned, it's more important we focus on getting this tie and get two previews next week...

[SpiralngCadavr]

I wasn't talking about it being wrong to like the model, I was rejecting the sentiment of a given piece being subpar but good enough being actually good enough.

[AverageBoss]

29 minutes ago, solkan said:

I think it's important to focus on the important matter on hand:  When is this poll going to close?

Because it's a lot of work trying to ensure that it results in a tie. 

If the poll resulted in a tie and it were up to me, I would say that the Outcats and Arcanists cancel each other out and reveal the Guild master instead.

[Tawg]

3 hours ago, SpiralngCadavr said:

I wasn't talking about it being wrong to like the model, I was rejecting the sentiment of a given piece being subpar but good enough being actually good enough.

But you're also suggesting subpar-ness based on personal preferences? 

I don't think the render leaves me wanting for a better model.  Depending on the reverse side, I may even love it.  But I would say it's hard to prove that the model is unquestionably subpar.  And I know you're not saying it, currently about this model, but with models in general, it's hard to place non-aesthetic qualities as the qualifiers for disliking them.  Except when they're like, two models flipped for variation or such.  There have been some questionable rendered previewed in the past.  (Those new changelings, I think?)

But besides that, your sentiment is true.  It certainly shows itself in video games, where produces often rush products and make "yearly" releases which minimal enhancements and gross amounts of unfixed bugs, yet people buy games yearly which simply encourages the industry standard.

[SpiralngCadavr]

Sometimes I don't like things. Sometimes I express my dislike of things. Sometimes it's a matter of taste and sometimes I think it's a matter of the thing being bad. I think that bad things are lame, and shouldn't be tolerated. Hopefully none of those sentiments needs attacking. I'm really tired of defending what are apparently unpopular and easily misinterpreted opinions. I'm sorry, I quit.

[RatsInTheWalls]

On 6/1/2016 at 3:22 PM, ABoyNamedSue said:

...

Done.

...

And done.

[The Warlock]

Well, voted are tied for now at 185...I guess we'll see what happens come Monday

[Cinnamon Bear]

Come on Outcasts! Don't let the terrorists win!