How do you deal with Ramos and spiders...

[newsun]

Curious as he seems like a very hard nut to crack. I'm looking forward to playing more against him to learn.

[Paradigm]

I've personally had great effect with Kang carrying Blot the Sky together with two Thunder Archers. Just make sure you have a decent front line to keep the archers safe, and they can wreck some serious havoc. Always fun when Ramos summons three spiders and you kill all of them with a single unfocused Hail of Hachinosu, and still have another one left for the end of the turn. You need to be really careful though, since a single model getting into engagement with the archers can completely neutralize them. Having models like Graves, Lust or others that can push models around comes in handy for when that happens, though be careful not to build the entire crew to be dependent on the archers. They are really nice in the right cicumstances, but are also easily countered.

[OneLittleThunder]

In a broader sense, anything with blasts can help a lot, especially if they ignore Armor. Hitting something near the Steam Arachnids and bouncing damage off onto them is a good way to get around their annoying Df 6. Some ideas to consider:

• Mei Feng: Hire Willie - his Armor-ignoring blasts are tailor-made for taking out clumps of spiders. Giving Mei or Kang Hard Worker helps everyone else get around the armor as well. Metal Gamin can also use Magnetism pretty effectively against Ramos' crew. Mei's own ability to bounce back and forth damaging different targets will also be useful, and Thunderous Smash can help clear out the Scrap markers left behind. Sparks can also consume those Scrap markers to good effect. Be careful with the Emberling, though, as the Scrap markers he creates can help your opponent.
• Shenlong: High River Style gives some very effective blasts, and Burn Like Fire is great for stealing the Reactivate that the Brass Arachnid hands out (or the Reactivates from Mechanical Rider, Joss, etc.). He also hands out Focus like candy, which combines well with the Shadow Emissary (see below).
• Yan Lo: Terracotta Curse can help pin the spiders in place (and/or drain your opponent's hand), and Hunpo Assault will let you clobber a lot of them at once, particular with Brutal Khakkhara (and the Emissary's buff to that attack). Lots of cheap minions dying around Yan Lo can mean lots of Chi, so he can get Ash Ascendant faster.
• Freikorps Specialist: Can burn out Scrap markers, has good ranged blasts, and the Freikorps Suit means he's immune to the Steam Arachnids' self-destruct pulse (as well as any blasts you may use on nearby Arachnids).
• Hannah: Big base, big range, big blasts. The Freikorps Suit means she's immune to the Steam Arachnids' self-destruct pulse (as well as any blasts you may use on nearby Arachnids).
• Kang: Handy to have even without Mei Feng. His blasts don't do too much, but his attack and damage bonus against Constructs is very useful against Ramos. He can also carry Hard Worker, which can help Rail Workers become a real threat to armored opponents.
• Lazarus: Lots of nice blasts, at range and up close, and Ramos' constructs may give Lazarus some useful actions to Assimilate.
• Shadow Emissary: Can set up a big chunk of your crew to do Blasts with Dragon's Breath; particularly nice with Shenlong, who hands out a lot of Focus.
• Taelor: Getting anywhere Ramos usually means lots of free charges, and Relic Hammers are always dynamite against Constructs.
• Thunder Archers: Like @Paradigmsaid, can be very effective, especially with Kang and Blot the Sky, but only if you can keep them out of a close fight.
• Toshiro: Command the Graves can turn Scrap markers into more activations for you rather than your opponent. 

 

 

[Skitt_Happens]

I had a game earlier this year in a slow grow league which taught me a few things about dealing with Ramos. It was a 45 stone game and I was playing McCabe. My opponent took Joss, brass arachnid, tool kit, effigy. I think the firestarter, who as always deployed off on a flank and I ignored all game. I was surprised not to see Howard but ... happy days. If you know you are playing Ramos he's easy to build for: McCabe with bos, gs and promises. Kang. Dawn Serpent. Some other models who may or may not have done something in the game.

Turn 1 Ramon summoned 3 spiders next to Kang. Dawn serpent lined up in kangs aura and shot the spiders. 3 spiders dead in one activation.

Top of turn 2, Kang, who had bos on him at this point dropped recalled training, dropped a card to ignore armour and promptly charged halfway across the table into Joss. This was a stupid idea, even with  to attack and damage and ml 7 ignoring armour because he has hard to kill so you aren't going to kill him in 1 activation. I realised this as I went to flip for damage on the first hit... Red Joker. 9 damage ignoring armour. Joss on hard to kill. Then he died.

If you take away Ramos' beaters (particularly in reckoning as we were playing) he has to join the fight himself. This is not where he wants to be. Ramos was unlucky and Black joker ed a spider summon on turn 2 and electrical creation summon turn 3, but as he pushed up the board he found himself in a triangle of McCabe, Kang and a reactivating dawn serpent with glowing saber. Dawn only got one hit in with the sword as he was pushed away, but positioning by a wall allowed hin to bite him instead. All at  to attack and  damage... om-nom-nom!

Ramos is killable, but when you go after him, don't attack anything else till he is off the board. An opportunist kill on the side will make the task of getting rid of Ramos expenentially more difficult.

[BigHammer]

Yan Lo, basically. If you time it right, Hunpo Assault into the middle of a batch of freshly summoned spiders and laugh as you get 3 Chi for practically zero effort.

[Rurouni Benshin]

In my experience, Mei Feng fares the best against Ramos (or Arcanists, in general).  The biggest reason I play Mei Feng is so she can take advantage of "Hard Worker", giving her the ability to ignore "Armor".  Traditionally though, I usually take the upgrade on Kang, since the only restriction is "Foundry".  Infiltrate a couple of Metal Gamin, and you've got some reliable minions that can do decent damage against all Constructs.  Even if you don't play Mei Feng, and bring Kang along, just putting "Hard Worker" on him just for his benefit is well worth it. 

The first target to take out in his crew is Joss.  If he's not running Joss, then go after the next biggest target (although I have to say if he's not bringing Joss with Ramos, I'd be questioning his tactics, but to each their own...).  Boasting Armor +2, HtK, and being able to use soulstones, he'll be the toughest model to beat.  Try your best to hit him early from a distance for small instances of 1 or 2 damage before getting close into melee (Metal Gamin are perfect for this, since Magnetism has such a great range and high likelihood of succeeding). 

As for the Spiders, I like the Shadow Emissary for these occasions.  If you're not creating scrap markers for Mei Feng to teleport to, it's ability to add to attacks benefiting from Focus help a lot.  It also gives Mei Feng a boost in her "Scalding Breath" attacks, presuming she's got a chance to Focus first.  I used to like taking Thunder Archers with her, but haven't used them as of late, mostly due to how quickly they can go down. 

Other people have mentioned Yan Lo and Shenlong too, all of which are also great options.  I just prefer Mei Feng in general, when facing Arcanists.

[OneLittleThunder]

If you haven't checked it out yet, I recommend the latest episode of the Schemes and Stones podcast (http://schemesandstones.podbean.com/e/episode-38-master-spotlight-ramos/). As usual, it's a thorough guide to knowing what Ramos does, along with some tips on how to counter it.

[Pyrflamme]

I had a game with Yan Lo + Shadowy Emissary on Thursday, where a combo of Fast from Yan Lo attaching, discarding for +2 Focus at beginning of Emissary's activation, then putting up the aura and double walking followed by a severe blast got all three of the summoned spiders. I imagine that pushes with other Masters (Sensei Yu, Misaki's Emissary upgrade, Mei Feng carrying Words of Wind, Shenlong with the air upgrade pushing and giving Fast t1) would help in much the same regard.

[Fetid Strumpet]

It's about managing AP. If Ramos is spam summoning multiple spiders and you are devoting many AP constantly clearing them out, He's on the winning end of the scale even if they never stay in play. Trading 1 AP, a Scrap and potentially a stone into multiple AP from the opposing crew is great for him because he spent one, you spent more, and not on something helping you win the game, potentially. Obviously Hunting Party can change that equation.

The way to deal with any spam summoner is generally the same. Put as much direct pressure on the summoner as possible so that they either potentially burn those required resources (Ie high cards and stones) on staying alive and active, or they don't and potentially get killed from the assault directed their way. Additionally you want actions that cause blasts or do dmg in a pulse that can hit multiple models in a turn. If you are going to do anything other than ignore or bait them them you need to equalize as much as possible the AP spent creating vs. destroying them. If you spend 2-3 AP to kill them each turn you aren't succeeding well enough. 

You can also attempt in certain circumstances Scrap destruction. If you have such in your list. It won't stop the summoning train, because Ramos only needs one, and then he'll get all he ever needs from the spiders themselves. But if you can deny the convenient one, the one he doesn't have to move to, or the ones that he wants to move towards anyway, then you can at least come out more even in the AP race. If he has to spend an AP walking towards the scrap, and then summons 2 spiders, that's at least 2 AP you made him spend to get to them on the table. This only works of course if moving towards the required scrap marker does't advance his board position in any meaningful way, which isn't something that can be ascertained through general advice as it is so encounter specific.

[katadder]

this is why mei feng is probably the best master for it, with seismic claws and good placing combined with hardworker 0 action she can kill pretty much every spider ramos brings for 1AP, leaving her free to kill other things too

[Rurouni Benshin]

15 minutes ago, katadder said:

this is why mei feng is probably the best master for it, with seismic claws and good placing combined with hardworker 0 action she can kill pretty much every spider ramos brings for 1AP, leaving her free to kill other things too

If I knew that I was facing Ramos, I'd bring Price of Progress with her just for killing swarms of Spiders.

[katadder]

I usually do anyway, price of progress, vapormancy and seismic claws. hard worker goes on kang

[InvokeChaos]

I am a big fan of Misaki actually for clearing waves. You want her stuck in anyways, and her Thunder has double blast 5 damage on severe, with Ml7. I would even consider a stalk action just to give the extra attack. If running emissary, you can get the extra general AP when you absolutely crush the spiders. 

I always consider her a harrier, and this kind of thing is what I like to do with her just to gum up my opponents plans and divert attention away (I also always run her with misdirection).  My ideal would be to charge in, take out one spider and wound the others with blasts, generate an AP, stalk attack for free onto the next, kill it, kill the last one with a next target trigger and I still have one AP, probably to attack something and next target again, trying to engage as much as I can.