Tara upgrades and totem

[Erik1978]

I want to try yet another Master: Tara.

I'm thinking mostly ressers but will try Outcasts too.

However, it seems there are many good upgrades for her, are any of them "must have"? 

Obliteration Symbiote seems like one I would almost always take and Knowledge of Eternity would be good to give MY models fast before burrying them, right?

I like Scramble but am I wrong to think Tara should charge around? How often is Dead of Winter your choice and are Death Marshals an important addition?

Last but not least: I'm not sure about her totem: Karina. It seems most give Karina some sort of summoning upgrade? But apart from that I can only see her being useful with her "Price of Eternity" to damage a cluster that Tara has just made fast? Then again 5 SS for a non-combat totem?

Any and all advice or thoughts are most welcome.

[Ryin]

I don't think I have played outcast Taraa yet. I play her almost exclusively as a reserrectionist and I love her.

Obliteration is the only upgrade I think is absolutely necessary personally. After that it's season to taste on how you play her. Tara has more options than just tara bombing things, especially in ressers, I think. I personally love Dead of Winter for the -wp but it's quite a gamble. If you think of it more like a way to pitch enemy cards than a way to guarantee wp failures, you'll do better with it, I think

I don't really use Karina. I think I used her once and didn't even use the summoning totem.

As far as Death Marshalls go, I think darlings is better for hiring void wretches and nothing beast but that's just because I like void wretches better than crooligans, which I am just not that good at using but I definitely think Death Marshals are useful for Tara.

[MobiusRex]

I'm a relatively new to Malifaux and my first master was Tara due to spiralingcadavers blog - http://spiralingcadaver.blogspot.co.uk/2014/04/sounds-of-silence-tara-and-obliteration.html?m=1 - in fact I'm pretty sure Wyrd should be paying him commission on any 'Herald of Obliteration' sales.

 

I've played probably six games with a roughly even split between Outcasts and Ressers. My thoughts so far are that depending on your game experience Tara will be easier to learn as a Resser. I found her theme crews defence mechanism one too many in terms of Tara's dynamics. With the AP shenanigans and bury mechanics I found myself being overwhelmed with Outcasts. Of course this could be as a result of my lack of Malifaux experience in general.

 

When it comes to upgrades, I've always taken Dead of Winter. I've never been disappointed by the DM's but I love the models so I'm ill inclined to not use them and the negative to WP from the upgrade is something I'm considering trying to maximise with Crooligans.

 

Obliteration Symbiote and Knowledge of Eternity are both also very solid but I'm looking at mixing in Transfusion in my next game and bringing some poison to the table just to experiment with play styles but also keep my regular opponents on their toes. To do this I'd probably drop KoE and consider using Karina to cast fast on to the buried model instead but the juries still out on whether I think she has a place in my crew.

 

Karina herself I find to be underwhelming every time I use her. Her summoning upgrade I find myself using infrequently at best, and honestly whenever I do get a high enough crow card I'd prefer to use it on something more productive. As I only have punk zombies though, my summoning options are limited. I'll reevaluate my position when Guild Autopsies become available as I think Karina will become a lot more viable then.

 

For hitters, I've been using Bete Noir. She is decent and works well in Tara's crew but ultimately, I find her actual damage output to be lacklustre. I'm contemplating trying to squeeze in a Rogue Necromancy instead. The intention being to use the beast bomb technique (read Spirals blog) to deliver it and thus hopefully keeping the positive twist to attacks.

 

I appreciate that it may sound like myself and Ryin (who I suspect is more experienced) differ over Void Wretches and Crooligans but I find the children to be more straight forward in terms of their use initially as well as spreading poison and WP debuffs. In turn though, I think Void Wretches will be stronger once you're familiar with running Tara and are confident with her mechanics but until then I think Crooligans or Canine Remains would be better for scheme running. Of course this all comes down to personal preference and my knowledge is nowhere near comprehensive.

 

Anyway, I hope I've at least provided you with another perspective from a relatively new player like yourself. It's always nice to see how others develop in terms of strategy and schemes so keep us updated on your progress.

[SpiralngCadavr]

So, big fan of tara, wrote a lot about her here.

Short version, tara has some serious flaws, probably the biggest of which is her dependency on being able to unbury to get any use out of her, and her two enforcers getting patched with 0ss upgrades (never take karina without summoning, she's horribly overpriced)

[Erik1978]

Thanks.

Yeah I know what you mean about learning from other players and get inspired. I was attending my first Malifaux tournament ever (3rd place!) and some came up to me and said I played Nicodem really different and effecient.

My problem is I want to try new Masters and crew every other week.

But what is that "Karina upgrade" you mention? What can she summon and how? I only see her lame upgrade that gives her the ability to sacrifice someone when they die (Long Forgotten Magics), something I fail to see the advantage in but then again, I haven't even gotten the crew yet.

[Freman]

It's in the second book, and the Outcasts Wave 2 deck.

The Faces of Oblivion

It allows the summoning of a Horror Minion for a high  as a (0) action.

It comes in without slow or taking damage, but loses half its wounds, gains slow, and is buried at the end of the turn. Playing Outcasts you can get Hannah to Void Record the model after its activation but before it's buried so it pops right up again, but that isn't an option in Ressurs.

[MR TORGUE]

I'll be honest I was moaning and whining about Karina but decided to soldier on with her and recently she's been an absolute badass. Set the Dreamer on fire the other day and murdered him. Summoned Student of Viscera in the same game as well! Absolutely love her now!!

[Erik1978]

FLEXINGTON!!!

Perhaps I should give her a second... well, third chance actually. 

[Math Mathonwy]

On ‎18‎.‎3‎.‎2016 at 7:16 PM, Erik1978 said:

I only see her lame upgrade that gives her the ability to sacrifice someone when they die (Long Forgotten Magics), something I fail to see the advantage in but then again, I haven't even gotten the crew yet.

I'll give you a hint, because it's more fun to find it out for yourself. Is there anything in Tara's mechanics that happens when a model dies (but doesn't happen if it is sacrificed)?

Oh, and never take that Upgrade, ever. The Summoning is ridiculously better.

[Erik1978]

I can't see anything about death/sacrifice on my Tara card?

[Durza]

Its one of Karinas upgrades.

[Adran]

20 minutes ago, Erik1978 said:

I can't see anything about death/sacrifice on my Tara card?

You might want to look at the triggers a little more carefully.  

EDIT- Durza - we're talking about why Karina might want to use Long forgotten magics. We know where the ability is, but trying to let Erik see why there might be a reason to sacrifice rather than Kill. (But still, don't take Long forgotten magic for any reason it isn't worth it). 

[Erik1978]

Ah, that one, yeah. Like Nothing beast and Voids have too. Well, I'm thinking it's harder to do in game than in theory? But cool when it works I'm sure.  

[SpiralngCadavr]

It doesn't work. It's like horror duels. They'll pass some, drain hand on some, let the ones that don't matter go through. Unlike horror duels, once one goes through, they're de facto invulnerable the rest of the turn.

[Durza]

30 minutes ago, Adran said:

EDIT- Durza - we're talking about why Karina might want to use Long forgotten magics. We know where the ability is, but trying to let Erik see why there might be a reason to sacrifice rather than Kill. (But still, don't take Long forgotten magic for any reason it isn't worth it). 

Whoops. >.>

I do agree with never take it though. 

[Freman]

Sacrificed models don't cause Tara's buried model to unbury. However still not worth 1SS. Faces of Oblivion? Totally worth it.

[solkan]

Sacrificed models don't drop markers, and while there are lots of "when kills or sacrifices" effects, there are enough effects that are just "when kills" to be plausible.

I mean, it's basically "Discard a card to say 'No' to Finish the Job, Governor's Influence, Explosive Demise, Drawn to Death, etc."

How many soulstones is it worth to tell Ramos "I discard a card.  Your electric creation is sacrificed instead of killed, so it neither blows up nor gives you a scrap marker"?

I guess it's one of those "I would hate to guess wrong and not need the upgrade" upgrades. 

 

[SpiralngCadavr]

...Except it's on a fragile model that has a fantastically better upgrade that's mutually exclusive with it and cheaper.

 

I think if you were in the situation to use it and did try it out and the match up was perfect, you'd just be painting a giant bullseye on a fragile 6ss model.

[Freman]

They should really upgrade Karina to a henchman rather than enforcer. Then she would be able to stone for suits, so she wouldn't be hunting for high crows all the time, and she could use stones to negate damage making her a little bit tougher. Of course I also think her 0SS upgrade should be printed on her card so as to free up her upgrade slot.

The ability to turn a high crow into an extra model is nice, and sometimes she'll shoot something in the face, and she does have some useful actions, but five stones is about all you want to pay for her, sometimes not even that.

[SpiralngCadavr]

Then she'd be hugely underpriced.

She's fine as-is, even if it would be nicer to have her upgrade on the card.

If you're not typically getting mileage out of her, you're not doing it right. I expect to get 12-18SS of summons out of her most games, on top of a decent pistol, which I do short of my opponent thoroughly prioritizing her early or some really anomalous luck.

[Erik1978]

19 hours ago, solkan said:

How many soulstones is it worth to tell Ramos "I discard a card.  Your electric creation is sacrificed instead of killed, so it neither blows up nor gives you a scrap marker"?

 

I would say quite a few!

[mDzierzan88]

Hello.

 

I've a question about Tara's Obliteration Symbiote upgrade actions. I'am curious about the one that allows you to unbury enemy model and activate him.

It is written that this activation "does not count as this models activation this turn".

My question is... can Tara unbury and activate a model that had already activated this turn before beeing burried?

 

As always looking forward for any reply

[Adran]

Yes. 

The ability is there to not count as the models activation so it doesn't matter if it has activated or not

[mDzierzan88]

4 hours ago, Adran said:

Yes. 

The ability is there to not count as the models activation so it doesn't matter if it has activated or not

Thank you

[SpiralngCadavr]

Yep. Be aware, though, that it's very taxing to actually pull off, so it won't be the sort of thing you probably do more than once in a game, unless your opponent is unaware of how valuable the move is, or has really horrible cards.