Kelshin Posted March 3, 2016 Report Share Posted March 3, 2016 Hello all, So I'm pretty new to the game, having only played about 10 games or so. But it has occurred to me, especially with the GG16 schemes, and we as a faction don't really have a great answer to actually winning games against summoners. This is really more of a question than a statement, just kinda looking for some advice on he matter. I also don't really mean summoners who are going to grab 2-4 models in a game; more like Ramos who can pretty reliably get 8+ Arachnids. It just seems for like for Reconnoiter, Interference, Extraction and Squatter's Rights especially an Arcanist or Rezzer player can see "Oh I'm playing Guild." And just grab Ramos or Kirai and you're immidiately fighting a pretty steep uphill battle. The new schemes almost universally reward action economy so when you add 10+ AP to your list for free in the first couple of turns it seems like that can swing pretty hard. So any advice for a newb or are we just in a bad spot as a faction? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myyrä Posted March 3, 2016 Report Share Posted March 3, 2016 Sonnia and Perdita can kill about as many models per turn as summoners can make them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lusciousmccabe Posted March 3, 2016 Report Share Posted March 3, 2016 Summoners are very often the go-to Masters for Reconnoiter and Interference, so you basically have to counter-pick. Most summoners tend to drop vulnerable models which you can pick off relatively easily with ranged attacks, that helps a lot in Squatter's Rights as well since you can sit on markers and shoot things as they pop up. They also often require a fair cost in upgrades, support models and/or cards which means your starting line-up will most likely outclass them in terms of what they actually do with their AP. Having a tonne of models isn't that great Extraction. You only need 2 model in range to score and the advantage of moving the marker often isn't enough to justify swarming it. You can hang back with your crew shooting summoned plebs or completing schemes and scoot in two toughish guys towards the end of the round to score and deal with the marker moving next round. Where summoners do become a problem is if they can out activate you and hold something back to kill or push your models, so just be aware of that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Munindk Posted March 3, 2016 Report Share Posted March 3, 2016 Identifying and eliminating key models in your opponents summoning machine can be important too. Killing Mortimer will hurt Nicodem, killing Phillip and the Nanny could leave Kirai or Molly starved for cards. Another way to go is to exhaust or deny the summoning engine fuel. If you field lots of easy to kill constructs against Ramos or low wound living models against Nicodem, you're making it easier for your opponent. Often trying to eliminate key pieces can drain cards or soul stones, which most summoning engines need. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelshin Posted March 3, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 3, 2016 Fair enough. I'm sure not all of them are nearly as bad as my experience with Ramos last night. I was running Dita and in no way, shape or form was it even close to possible to deal with the 6 spiders he made basically immediately, which then all healed up as they activated and had + defense flips. It got extremely overwhelming very quickly, and became a 2-1 activation ratio by the start of turn 3. Not to mention healing Rail Workers; ect. And you know, turf war, so I just had to feed people to the machine so to speak. I'm sure other one's aren't quite so bad; I am just completely baffled at how to deal with a very well-run Ramos out of Guild, I guess. But thanks for the advice! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fetid Strumpet Posted March 3, 2016 Report Share Posted March 3, 2016 The best way of dealing with summoners is to put hard pressure on THEM, personally. Summoning requires resources, resources that are finite, generally. In almost all cases they require pretty high cards, so if you are directly putting pressure on a Summoner, they get the option to either 1) Save those resources for summoning, and probably get killed in the process. Or 2) Use those resources for defense and not have them for summoning. A summoner WANTS you to attack their summons because they probably will have spent less ap and resources in making them than you will in removing them. Ramos spends 1 AP and a high tome and scrap to summon 2 - 3 spiders that you then try to remove for 2 through 3 ap each. So if you are trying to wipe them out you now spend 4 to 9 AP in removing them, unless you are able to hit them with AoE damage. But if you just deal with what he summons and instead direct all that energy that you were going to direct at the spiders at him, well it's going to wreck his day. Even if you don't succeed in killing the summoning, it is just generally better to deal with the summons and knock the summoner out, or at least tie up their resources so they can summon less than trying to out ap them by constantly killing what they summon and ignoring them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admiralvorkraft Posted March 4, 2016 Report Share Posted March 4, 2016 7 hours ago, Kelshin said: Fair enough. I'm sure not all of them are nearly as bad as my experience with Ramos last night. I was running Dita and in no way, shape or form was it even close to possible to deal with the 6 spiders he made basically immediately, which then all healed up as they activated and had + defense flips. It got extremely overwhelming very quickly, and became a 2-1 activation ratio by the start of turn 3. Not to mention healing Rail Workers; ect. And you know, turf war, so I just had to feed people to the machine so to speak. I'm sure other one's aren't quite so bad; I am just completely baffled at how to deal with a very well-run Ramos out of Guild, I guess. But thanks for the advice! Ramos can only use Summon the Swarm once per turn, so he shouldn't be able to get more than 3 arachnids a turn. I've seen a few people overlook that particular sentence... (myself included). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thstringer Posted March 4, 2016 Report Share Posted March 4, 2016 (edited) 12 hours ago, Kelshin said: Comment deleted because I said the same thing as AV Edited March 4, 2016 by 4thstringer Repetitive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thstringer Posted March 5, 2016 Report Share Posted March 5, 2016 The emissary is nice against summoners I've found. The never bluff a six gun trigger helps to clear out a bunch of already injured models. He also can be good to get models downfield fast, which helps put pressure on summoners. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redarkham Posted March 7, 2016 Report Share Posted March 7, 2016 I recently played in a tournament and was paired round 1 against a Kirai player. I found if you find yourself in a situation where you cannot kill as many as they summon, you can always goad them to a flank then abandon it. I had a mobility Lady J list. Essentially you have to outmaneuver the summoner player to waste their resources. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowNot2Wargame Posted March 19, 2016 Report Share Posted March 19, 2016 Go for the throat as Fetid said. Nicodem really does not like guild McMourning standing next to him at the end of turn one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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