New to game, looking at Arcanists

[GrimmMJ]

Hey guys, completely new to the game and having my first intro game later this week. Im still looking at crews but got stuck on Arcanists. While im not extremely competitive I do enjoy winning now and then so before I start buying boxes im wondering which crews among the Arcanists are considered stronger and weaker? Just going by the looks of the models I do like Rasputina and Kaeris but got no clue wether they are competitive or not.

So all advice for a complete noob looking to start out Arcanists are welcome!

[LulleK]

Colette is widely considered the "best" master in arcanists, and many like Ramos too. Colette has a lot going on though, so she is maybe not the best master for a beginner. Ramos is a bit more straight forward and you get some of the best models for Arcanists in his box. Ironsides is probably the "worst" master. Malifaux is very dependent on player skill though, so you could win with anyone. Of the ones you listed, Rasputina is great for a beginner. She is pretty straight forward and easy to understand, but still has some depth. She is better in some schemes than others though. I've never played with Kaeris or against her, so I'm no expert, but she is a little more complicated to do well with.

[Adran]

Personally I would say that Ironsides is probably the weakest Arcanist master at the moment. But that could just be my much lower level of experience with her

The others are fairly close in power, depending on what you want to do, so Rasputina is probably one of our most killy masters, but is not as good in mobile games. Colette is probably most versatile, and best at scheme marker shenanigans, which generally turn into VPs, and as I understand it VPs win games. 

But my personal play style doesn't get the most out of Colette, so for me she is probably 4th or 5th choice of Arcanist to play if I really want to win. 

[Jugan0ght]

I like Ironsides alot, I agree she might be the 'weakest' in that her damage potential isn't amazing but she can Lure other people in and out of combat or pull people out of position. 

Her box as well also includes the oxfordian mages who can be great they all count as enforcers so if they kill something in most schemes that could mean a VP and the Captain, I love him. He comes in her box he can wind push everyone around and has a relic hammer which is great for taking on most things. 

I would avoid Kaeris as a new player as well as she doesnt deal a great amount of direct damage. Not saying she can't kill things because she certainly can but her cards might not be to friendly. 

Go with your instincts and get Rasputina she is very killy and recently as in this month and the last she has recieved alot of love with new models such as the Blessed of December and Silent ones.

[mythicFOX]

Welcome to the union!

Of the two crews you call out;  Rasputina is generally stronger than Kaeris.  Our flaming angel is a little under powered and really requires support from the Ramos box set to be effective, where December's chosen is both far more powerful and more self sufficient.  I guess you have to be to keep a tribe of cannibals in line.

Our strongest master strait out of their boxed set is probably Ramos.  I disagree with the internet wisdom and believe our strongest all round master is Marcus, although Colette is a close second, she's also the toughest to play really well (not a first choice for a beginner IMO).

That said you can't really go wrong so long as you avoid Ironsides and Mei, as they're the weakest of our masters.

Trust this helps.

 

Down with the Guild!

[GrimmMJ]

Sounds like Rasputina would be a good place to start then. Awesome feedback, thank you. Ill be able to borrow a full Rasputina-crew for my first games. Which Master would be a good complement to Rasputina later on?

[Adran]

That depends on what you find you struggle with when you play Rasputina. 

I would recommend the Ramos box, as even if you never play Ramos, everything else in the box is really useful to all the Arcanist Faction. 

[Sordid Strumpet]

Ramos is definitely a great box to pick up. Rasputina is not so strong when it comes to games that require a lot of mobility, even though you can compensate with a blessed of december and acolytes to some degree. Most of the things Rasputina likes are expensive points wise (acolytes, Snow Storm, Ice Golem). You'll probably want to pick up a box of silent ones and december acolytes as they have a great heal ability and are generally really good in many crews.

I'd suggest the mechanical rider as a generally great model because she's fast, becomes tougher and tougher as the game goes on, can summon tough little minions to do your scheme running for you and isn't half bad at getting scheme markers down herself.

[admiralvorkraft]

If you find yourself drawn to any of the M&SU masters (Ramos, Ironsides, Kaeris) get Johan to support them. He's an Outcast who hits hard and has great utility.

I like the whole M&SU sub-faction. Ironsides and Kaeris are slightly under the curve, but they are fantastically fun masters to play. I would call them both primary support, secondary damage masters. Ramos brings incredible support and summoning and his box has two of our heaviest hitters in it.

Rasputina is the Arcanist master that focuses most on damage. So if you're into that she's the way to go.

[GrimmMJ]

Damage-dealing is a good place to start out i suppose =). So Rapsutina, Acolytes and a Blessed of December or Snowstorm would be a decent place to start for my first games?

I have no illusions about getting just a few models once i dip my toe in it so Ill probably be sitting on a mound of models in a few months hah!

[mythicFOX]

That looks like a good opening salvo to me.  Welcome to the Cult of December!  

 

[Fog]

A bit late to,the discussion, but here's my two script.

I am a font of contrary opinions.  I think Ramos is tops, with Rasputina at the bottom.  Raspy is fantastic, don't get me wrong, but I find her to,have a very one dimensional play style.  She brings one thing to the table (though it's an amazing thing). Ironsides gets a bad rap for not being Mei Feng when she's not supposed to be.  Kaeris gets a ton of love but I don't think she's all that hot. Colette and Marcus are fantastic tool boxes but are very skill dependent.  

That all said, every master we have wins games.  We're better off than many in that we have no duds.

[enderwiggin]

As inoffensively as it can be taken, you can't be talking about the same Raspy I know and love. I'm not sure how you can consider her to be one dimensional when she has such a powerful box of tools in the form of blasting, board control (pillars), or potential activation control (being able to very easily paralyze things). She has a few ways to shut down melee via defensive triggers or just casting through others and, if her forces are tooled another way, can do a very good job at destroying hands with arcane effigy and acolytes pulling duty. Once ice dancers are released I don't think anyone should be able to say staying all cult can't run schemes then.

The best part though? Building a list that does 3-4 of those things is usually pretty easy. Now if Criid were in the same faction I may say otherwise on the power scale because I do think she has the slight edge in personal upgrades and can blast a little harder.

---

No arguing on Ramos though, the man is no myth and all legendary.

No clue on Ironsides yet (the player with her is new and I haven't played them), Kaeris is nothing special though imo. Above Yan Lo though at least.

[angyi]

@Fog: my take on Arcanist masters almost completely differs from yours. But I think that's because this game is so easy to interpret in different ways, not because one of us was wrong.

Eg. I think Colette is extremely effective, but really one (two) dimensional, not much of a toolbox at all. The same applies - to a certain extent - to Marcus. Even Ramos has more vectors as my games go, and even Kaeris is more interesting than Colette, while somewhat less efficient for sure. I think Rasputina is sometimes considered weaker or one dimensional only because her common lists builds have very obvious counters.

[GrimmMJ]

Not having read up on Colette yet, whats her playstyle?

[Bengt]

Colette buffs (mainly through the Doves), move and give actions (both by giving her own AP away and by making (1) Interacts be (0) actions) to friendly models. Her own attacks are very, shall we say, "modest". Her triggers makes her fairly hard to kill but if attacked by someone that ignores triggers she folds pretty fast.

[Sordid Strumpet]

I think of Colette as basically having the melee attack of any other model in range of her prompt. But her own attacks can come in handy (she has a free attack she may as well use if she can't use the action to drop a scheme marker), thanks to vaious highly useful triggers.

[GrimmMJ]

So I had my first 35ss game yesterday and holy hell Rasputina can nuke. Faced of with Leveticus with 3 small constructs, Desolation Engine and 2 Waifs hanging out in the back and the game ended 3/3. I had the Crew box and borrowed a Acolyte. Decembers Curse did the heavy lifting with awesome flips but the dilemma I had was being out-threatened by his Desolation Engine. Put my Golem to far forward and get charged by the Engine, hold it back and its not much use. 

As an afterthough I could have pulled the Engine forward with Acolyte into charge-range of the Golem...

All in all, fun to get started, very different from what I am used to (40k, Warmahordes) and certainly looking forward to my next game. 

[mythicFOX]

1 hour ago, GrimmMJ said:

So I had my first 35ss game yesterday and holy hell Rasputina can nuke. Faced of with Leveticus with 3 small constructs, Desolation Engine and 2 Waifs hanging out in the back and the game ended 3/3. I had the Crew box and borrowed a Acolyte. Decembers Curse did the heavy lifting with awesome flips but the dilemma I had was being out-threatened by his Desolation Engine. Put my Golem to far forward and get charged by the Engine, hold it back and its not much use. 

As an afterthough I could have pulled the Engine forward with Acolyte into charge-range of the Golem...

All in all, fun to get started, very different from what I am used to (40k, Warmahordes) and certainly looking forward to my next game. 

Glad you enjoyed it!  

Keep letting us know how you get on and ask any questions you have.

[ShadowAngel]

SnowStorm, for the stones, is way more effective than the ice golem imho. Ice Golem is a one trick pony. SnowStorm offers a handful of nice tricks for Raspy, as well as having a very decent melee damage track.

[GrimmMJ]

Snowstorm is on my shopping-list for next month. Bought a Blessed yesterday and got an old metal Acolyte from my friend so 50ss is not far. From what i recon Snowstorm and Silent Ones should be on my list for future models. Anything else... Heard something about Metal Gemin..

[mythicFOX]

I wouldn't worry about Metal Gamin at this stage.  Ice are as good for where you are now.

Once you've picked up the Snow Storm above I would look at the Arcane Effigy.  It's Arcane Radiance is good for 'Tina and condition removal is always amazing. Silent One's are really good but I'd hold off on them until a little later.

[GrimmMJ]

Does Radiance work on mirrored spells?

[Adran]

Yes. It is still Rasputina doing the spells, she is just drawing LOS and Range from a  different point. 

In  the case of Colette, she prompts a model, then that model makes its 1 Action, so those wouldn't benifit from Radience, because they aren't done by Colette. 

[GrimmMJ]

Then Arcane sounds really nasty with Rasputina, forcing your opponent (potentially) to drop 3 cards while doing large amounts of damage sounds good to me.