are grems to combo(ie)

[izikial]

is it just me (and I'm expecting it is) or do gremlins rely to much on overlapping effects?

this is just based on theory craft and I love a combo, but it seems with gremlins if you want a strong combo it requires half or more of your stones to get working and crumbles with the removal of 1 model.

is this the case or is it just me trying to get "the perfect combo" insted of making do

[Clement]

Eh...  It's certainly possible to go deep into snergies and bonuses in order to make really questionable models (bayou gremlins) into something fearsome.  Even if that synergy seems to be "Bring 3 bayou gremlins".  You can run the Gremlins as a team of totally independent strikers, you just have to build specifically for it and limit yourself to only bringing a few toys.

Generally, all of Malifaux really rides on it's combos.  Some might be more egregious then others, but none are immune.

[Yvarre]

I always kill the slop haulers first...

[Astrella]

Depends on what models you take, some are more self-sufficient than others. Kin models are quite self-sufficient for example.

[Sordid Strumpet]

If you're spending half your stones to set up a combo and the combo gets taken apart by the death of one model, what are all the other models in the combo for? Can you give an example of the theory-crafted combo you made?

My favourites are Wong and Gremlin Zoraida. Both of those like their synergies but can make do without, and you can swap different synergies in and out (i.e. gracie/burt/saddle, glowy burt or merris with her scheme marker that Wong gets to shoot up in the air and then place to give lightning bugs more AP).

If you design a whole list around one synergy, and that synergy is gone when one model dies, I think you need to rethink how you build a list. It's easy to go overboard with a particular synergy when you don't need it. I try to limit the models I need to pull any particular thing off to two, three at most if a totem or something is involved.

Way too easy to counter your list otherwise.

[Dogmantra]

Gremlins tend to be at least a bit more combo driven than other factions, since a lot of their power comes from hurting themselves, so you want those slop haulers. But I do think a well made crew shouldn't crumble with the loss of one model.

If you're having trouble, a more elite crew might be more your style. As Astrella mentioned, the Kin tend to be fairly self sufficient, and Burt or Gracie can both hold their own, particularly if you make them glowy.

Generally though, when I play I accept that my crew will probably die. Then you just have to focus on getting points as quickly and uncounterably as possible.

[daniello_s]

One thing: get Sammy. She is crazy model and I would take her almost every time if I played Gremlins.

[izikial]

well there is the generic thing of everything in gremlins wants a slop hauler and Lenny.

more specifically if you want to use a pigapult you tend to want lenny and often a slop hauler

the one I most like is Wong, emissary (for more blast damage) sparks (for more blasts) merris (for blast immunity). That is 24ss without upgrades

 

[Adran]

Gremlins have lots of combinations, its pretty easy to go with Lenny, to hand out the armor and Rams, plus Merris for the blast immunitys, plus Trixe for the initiative, and then a few models to actually take advantage of all that, and discover that you have an entire crew. 

But you don't need everything to play the game, or often even to do what you are trying to do. 

So yes, you probably are relying too much on overlapping effects.  

Unless having that many overlapping effects is fun for you., and you are happy with how it works in the game, then no you aren't relying on them too much. 

[Clement]

in a recent game I found I actually had both no Lenny and no Slop Hauler...  It was terrifying, and I also won.   In related news, Zoraida is a hoot against beatface masters who don't want to give you cards.

[Ludvig]

I'd say gremlins have a lot of combos and synergies and they're not more fragile than synergies in other factions. If you have a model that gives a buff and that model dies the buff is going to go away. That is true for any faction. You just need to accept the fact that you will not have your perfect storm for the entirety of the game but use it to take apart something in the enemy list and then deal with the loss or make your opponent pay dearly for it in AP.

I'd also like to question the statement "bayou gremlins are questionable models". They are significant models for 3ss (very rare and very powerful) who can actually get 3ap (which is basically unheard of for models below 9ss). Bayou gremlins make a lot of hard schemes trivial and with the right support models they hit way above their weight.

[Clement]

18 hours ago, Ludvig said:

I'd also like to question the statement "bayou gremlins are questionable models". They are significant models for 3ss (very rare and very powerful) who can actually get 3ap (which is basically unheard of for models below 9ss). Bayou gremlins make a lot of hard schemes trivial and with the right support models they hit way above their weight.

But running bayou gremlins without support and for the most part you have weedy models with a good walk stat and attacks that are typically bad, sometimes suicidal (dumb luck kills 100s of unsupported bayou gremlin every day), and sometimes actively counter productive (ricochet trigger).  That third AP they get one time, and only as an alternative to dumb luck.  Without some of the great support gremlins can through around, a bayou gremlin really only has 'it's a minion with bayou two-card and not horrific defenses that either goes fast once or hits hard once'.  The AMAZING support gremlins bring to the table are what graduate bayou gremlins from the weedy little bullet catchers they are to fearsome bayou horde that Somer runs so well.

[SpiralngCadavr]

Bayou gremlins on their own are decent but really fragile. I find them pretty poor at anything other than forcing a non-ranged force to deal with them and activation control. Also, the third AP is pretty rough when it means they're going down to a 2WD 3ss model that can hurt itself.

They're very good when fully supported, and they're okay for non-combat roles when unsupported.

...In short, I guess, what clement said.

[Ludvig]

I see their job as hiding out and providing out-activation turns 1 and maybe 2 and then going reckless to get scheme or strategy points. I wouldn't rely on them shooting anything unless properly supported.

If your opponent left them alone they can actually place two markers in the same turn which is basically three VP straight up in a lot of the original book schemes. They can also deliver the message from not being engaged. So not only do I need to kill your big scary models that will kill my scheme runners, but any one gremlin in your list can cost me 3vp so I need to kill every last one of those before they place their markers. That takes a lot of AP, especially when you keep all of your "real" models outside killing range of my best hitters until after I've wasted both their activations turn 1 and 2. They fare worse against shooty crews on open boards. Add to this that you rarely waste precious cards on them since they can often two-card to force the enemy into cheating for real.

I'm not trying to force anyone to love bayou gremlins I'm just saying that they bring quite a lot for a model with the same price as some upgrades. It seems unreasonable to expect greatness from 3ss.