Archers getting killed by birds,,,,

[Bengalius]

Hey there fellow forum people...this is my first post so please be gentle! I recently played a game with a mate who had ramos,some fistfighting chick called iron sides,,but he brought some attack birds to take out my archers....I saw recently something about smoking or blotting the sky..would this help with my avian problem?

Thanks in advance!

Bengalius!

 

[Gennosuke]

Nope, there is nothing you can do, sorry :/

The thing is, 10T Archers are extremely fragile, (shamefully fragile for a 7SS model). The only way to keep them alive is being out of sight and out of reach. But, your mate will place his raptors anywhere on the table he wants. Then either you win the initiative, and somehow manage to kill all 3 raptors before he activates them, or he will activate all 3 of them, killing the archer easily (not 'cause the raptors are really "killy", but because the archers are really kill-able). It shouldn't be that easy to kill a second archer that way, but still manageable.

The only thing that comes to my mind to avoid it it's keeping a high mask in your hand, to trigger Step Aside, disengaging the raptors. But a well placement of the raptors can easily deny you the chance to get away.

You could also discard Blot the Sky, if you did purchased it (which you should, if you brought archers), to push the archers away from the raptors, but again, it won't help if you lose initiative or the raptor's placement blocks your way. And also, it's a shame to discard Blot the Sky turn 2...

The good thing about this, it's that your friend will soon find there are... worse and more annoying things to do with his raptors, and maybe you wont have to worry that much about your archers being killed by them anymore

 

 

[Adran]

If you have more than 1 archer, then you want to keep them far enough apart that 1 raptor can't engage 2 archers. 

If your opponent has multiple Raptors, and spends his early activations burying them to stop you killing them, you can either  kill the ones he doesn't activate straight away, or use your activations to kill the rest of his models. 

If you have the Blot the sky upgrade, you can discard it to push all your archers. Or, if your opponent is Burying and unburying his Raptors, and you are the first player, you get to do the free attack from the upgrade before the Raptors unbury. 

The Raptors aren't that hard to kill, they have a high Df, but low wounds, so a simple bodyguard near your Archers has a decent chance of killing the birds and freeing the Archers. 

Option C involves Buying the New Aionius model, and attacking the buried Raptors.  

 

 

 

[MagicGis]

Beware my 13 point merc protecting my 15 stones 2+blot archers from your insignificant peon ""

[Rurouni Benshin]

I've been leaning less and less towards taking TT Archers, since it requires at least 15 ss of my crew to be effective (2 Archers and Blot the Sky).  Against opponents who don't have a means of attacking the other side of the board quickly, or being able to ignore the normal rules of attacking, they're still very effective.  The only faction I'd think twice about bringing them against is Guild.  (Austringers will eat them alive...)

The last few games I've played with them has been with only 1 Archer, with either Sensei Yu or Kang carrying Blot the Sky, and have had moderate success.  They died in both games, but managed to inflict upwards of 10-12 wounds throughout the games.  The other key to their survivability is keeping them close to the carrier of Blot the Sky.  Even with someone who doesn't have a great damage spread (ie - Sensei Yu), whoever is there in your backfield should be strong enough to protect them moderately.  Blot the Sky only has a 6" range, so most models will be within Cg distance if a Raptor happens to get into engagement with your Archer.

[Yvarre]

In upwards of 60 games playing Ten Thunders, I have yet to take an archer, though I got them pretty early in my collecting.  They are just so underwhelming to me for 7 stones, and the blot the sky trick seems way too static and predictable.  I see how AOE damage can be potent if an opponent bunches up, but I tend to think that players with a little experience would avoid that pitfall.  2 free AP on a model out of activation when hands are drained also seems good, but hitting a difference of 6+ and having a moderate or severe card to cheat in seems like it would draw too much from the rest of my crew, and using an AP to focus before the free end of the turn attack seems like it could make the Hale attack that much easier to avoid unless something else is positioning the archers- that's alot of AP to set up a small threat bubble to maybe get some damage in.  I would like them if they had a bit more range, but I feel that the samurai with favor of Jigoku is much more flexible in their role.  Though he randomizes when shooting into engagement, he has the potential to spread damage between models in clumps and far away from each other as well as a potent melee attack if something like a Malifaux Raptor gets in his face.  Plus the survivability of 6 wds with armor 2...

I can see the archers being ok with support from Shen Long, but being able to engage models can often be so strategically relevant, that I'd rather throw something like a fast, focused illuminated with a 2/4/5 damage spread in the face of some models to either kill them or stop them from going anywhere than to have 3 or 4 models in my crew stuck in the backfield while the opponent's crew has freer mobility and a better chance of trampling through my vanguard with team attacks.  Granted they'll be clumped up more if they're teaming up, but they can also choose the flank that the archers don't have range to.  And HtK snipers with from the shadows even without a super open board are something I'd rate above archers.

[Rurouni Benshin]

For their points, an Illuminated vs a TT Archer serve very different purposes though.  If used in your example, with Shen Long, he can walk twice and Focus in the same activation, and if he's within range of Sensei Yu's 3" aura, he's a Sh 7 model with +2 Focus.  I haven't tried this combination yet, but with the Shadow Emissary's "Dragon's Breath" ability, having that extra blast on moderate and severe damage is very tempting try.

Part of the strategy in utilizing this tactic is forcing the opponent to group up, or engaging multiple models quickly.  For this, I turn to Mei Feng.  With Vapormancy, her Rail Walk can get her into combat pretty quickly, and hopefully tie up enemy models, keeping them from disengaging too soon.  At and Ca 7 in melee, it would be hard for many models to get away.

[Adran]

Archers can do well, but are slightly fragile. And to make Blot the sky worth while I feel I need at least 2 archers. Which is a signifigant part of my list. 

I think a Turn in which they walk, focus, and then use blot the sky to get a LOS ignoring shot with Blasts is not too bad a turn. Unfortunately a player that is better than you will probbaly be able to stop them doing that turn. 

 

And Magic Gris is right, there is a point that you are spending too many points on doing 1 thing. 

[MrDeathTrout]

Malifaux is a game of rock-paper-scissors, what works is going to depend a lot on what your opponent has.  Sounds like your opponent has the answer to the Archers.  If your opponent(s) regularly run those birds sounds like you have a lot of trouble getting your points out of those archers.  It if were me I wouldn't run them.  If you want some good range run a couple of snipers.  Those birds won't stand a chance in close with them.

[Duront]

Unfortunately there is a clutch of models in Ten T that are not worth taking and the Thunder archers are solidly in that group. They seem great in theory, shoot into engagements, no LOS attack with blasts but they have classic problem of Wave 1 Ten T models having multiple things to do and being terrible at all of them. You can try to set it up for these weird end of turn Blot the sky actions where you walk and get double focus and then hope at the end of the turn you aren't either A. tied up in melee B. you have a target in your range C. you aren't just dead with 5 wounds and DF 4 (Which is laughably easy to kill).

[MrDeathTrout]

I don't agree that the TT archers are not worth taking.  I run 1-2 ranged units in nearly every list.  If there is a lot of close blocking terrain I take 1-2 archers, if there is a lot of wide open fire lanes I take 1-2 Snipers.  I'd say half the games at best these models kill thier points worth, but what both do for me is board control. Neither do an incredible amount of damage, but it is enough damage that most opponents cannot ignore it.  The archers are also good at clean up.  An enemy on it last could of wounds after you charged it.  TT Archers don't care if it's engaged, and out of LOS finish it off.  In the right situation they are fantastic.  I've killed a lot of models with Blot the Sky on Sensei Yu.  Two archers with a 12" no-LOS Sh7 attack with +++/+++, and double blast on sever damage, is formidable.  It is also fragile and cost a lot of points.  Not good for all situations.  If you opponent can just avoid that bubble its a huge wast of points, but if you're controlling a key part of the board like the center in Turf War it can still be worth it.

There are some very good counters for the archers (Raptors, Lilith's Tangled Shadows, Austringers) but at least in my group I don't face any of those models too often.

You have to be careful when and how you use archers, but in the right place at the right time.  Awesome.

 

[katadder]

prefer my katanaka snipers to archers as they are actually just as good in melee (if not better) and also harder to take down

plus with shenlong 2 range 28 focused shots per sniper is always nice

[blomkaal]

2 hours ago, katadder said:

prefer my katanaka snipers to archers as they are actually just as good in melee (if not better) and also harder to take down

plus with shenlong 2 range 28 focused shots per sniper is always nice

I find the two Focus shots take too much setup, unless I'm doing it wrong. Basically, I have a peasant giving the sniper Focus +1. He then Shoots, takes Focus +1 as a (0) from Shenlong, and shoots again. Am I missing something? Otherwise, this requires one Peasant pr. Sniper, or both Snipers being within 1" of the Peasant, and both of them being within 6" (or however much range his aura has) of Shenlong. Seems way too situational to me.

[Myyrä]

16 minutes ago, blomkaal said:

I find the two Focus shots take too much setup, unless I'm doing it wrong. Basically, I have a peasant giving the sniper Focus +1. He then Shoots, takes Focus +1 as a (0) from Shenlong, and shoots again. Am I missing something? Otherwise, this requires one Peasant pr. Sniper, or both Snipers being within 1" of the Peasant, and both of them being within 6" (or however much range his aura has) of Shenlong. Seems way too situational to me.

It's true that you quite rarely get to pull off two focused shots, but it's often easy to get a shot with double focus, so that you can often cheat against someone in cover, or be able to move and take a focused shot after that. Still pretty strong.

[newsun]

This is another reason Shen+Toshiro+Snipers can be a great combo, make a peasant with scheme marker, kill peasant, summon ashigaru with corpse, use scheme to hand out focus to bubble, presto long range death killers. If your board is open with lots of LoS, you could even add some Freikorps trappers to make an absurd T1 alpha. You just need to add in someone who will def kill the peasant, ideally in one hit so they can do more afterwards. Add in Yu+Wandering River and you can do this while models are being pushed into place.

[katadder]

dunno I get it fairly regularly as like my bubble of sensei yu and shenlong. have to use shenlong to get focus early then he can make the sniper fast using wandering river style (4" push, plus lower focus by 1 to give target fast) and then change styles so that sensei yu does the same thing.

this gives you a focus for zero action, shoot, focus for 1 action, shoot. also having had the 4" push should give you targets.

[BigHammer]

Alternatively, you could just use the Peasants' Provide for the Temple ability to hit focus onto the snipers, and save your pushes and fast for models that it will benefit more.

[newsun]

So there are 3 ways to accomplish this same thing for 4 shots into deployment zone T1, not bad considering ++ to all those attacks too.

[Myyrä]

6 minutes ago, newsun said:

So there are 3 ways to accomplish this same thing for 4 shots into deployment zone T1, not bad considering ++ to all those attacks too.

You can also include Kang to get extra s against constructs and undead.