Lady Justice - what am I missing? Why is she so great?

[trikk]

Same with "I bought Sonnia/Perdita, whats next?" Maybe we should start and pin threads like "M2E Perdita" and "M2E Sonnia" like "M2E Kaeris" in the Arcanists forum?

 

[Dogsplosion]

I think that's what PullMyFinger is for; the esteemed authors of the useful replies to these "getting started" threads should really jump over there and add their expertise!!

[trikk]

Well, most of it is there actually.

[4thstringer]

I always look forward to the "Lucius is awful" threads for my time to shine.   Speaking of,  I've let him ready for too long.

[Ludvig]

I always look forward to the "Lucius is awful" threads for my time to shine.   Speaking of,  I've let him ready for too long.

Just say the word, I love whining about Lucius almost as much as I love playing him!

[wizuriel]

I always look forward to the "Lucius is awful" threads for my time to shine.   Speaking of,  I've let him ready for too long.

Just say the word, I love whining about Lucius almost as much as I love playing him!

same. He was my master from 1.5. As much as I love him I can't think of any other master who can unintentional spend his turn using your SS, burning your cards and only hurt/paralyze your crew. 

[chrisb]

1. Thing is the death marshals are probably the most impressive looking minions certainly for the guild so people bought the LJ crew because it looked good, and they bought it fast, it then sold out everywhere so became super rare (I found a box in a tiny little game store at this point at rrp then had to decide weather to open and paint it or put it on ebay when they where selling for £100+, I built it) but because of its rarity people assumed it must be amazing, so it got its name as an op crew, where as the truth is the game is actually really well balanced and no crew is really better than all the others its just understanding how to use it and getting the right mission to use it properly.

[Ashlian]

I'm a bit bored so felt like going on a "little" rant, don't worry it's relevant to this page

so LJ:

I am mostly in this hobby for the modelling/painting and lore. I don't really play competetive and my crews mostly consist of models I like visually or find interesting.

with the above in mind i can say I love LJ and she is my favorite master lorewise and in mental image (unstoppable katana wielding women that personifies cold absolute justice). Alas, I must also say that I hate playing her.

In previous posts I notice that people say that she does the highest damage in the game, but this is false. On paper this is certainly true and with a right card + build in ram + potential stone = highest single attack damage for 1 AP. In practice It just doesn't work that way. As Myrra pointed out, her main problem is getting in a situation in which she can do that amazing damage and even then that's not a guarantie as she has no build in way to deal with hard to wound/armour/hard to kill, so against these types of opponents some other models might even be better than her even after she gets in melee when just comparing raw damage on the target.

Long story short, her damage is just not amazing enough to justify all her drawbacks:

-no real mobility 

-can do nothing consistent except deny an area of the board and doing melee damage

-upgrades are bad and don't really improve her that much or give her playstyle any depth or flexibility (although "last stand" is almost mandatory to help her with her mobility)

-juggernaut is useful, but 1/2 (0)heal is just to little to really keep her going (4 is possible, but mostly need to cheat => not good use of resources)

-restore natural order, could've been great but the cast cost is way  to high to actually reliably pull it off.

-inspiring swordplay gives a little bump in power, but not substantial enough to really call support and it's very situational.

-riposte, should either have been build in (no mask) or also work against ranged attacks (and just give it a base damage of 3 or 4)

-covering fire is a joke

-greatsword, impressive weapon but not that awesome because of immobility, if it would've been 3" like lilith (upgrade) then at least her controll buble would've been a bit larger.

-no hard to wound, this would not have made her OP and would've inforced her marshal status.

-No relevant synnergy/mechanics/interactions with her crew, this last one is why i hate playing with her. when playing hoffman or sonnia or almost any other master you at least have some basic interactions that give your crew a core tactic or unique flavour. (more on this later)

 

of course there are also some good aspects:

-lore

-wounds

-final repose (although situational)

-blindfighter

-very satisfying when you can just utterly destroy an enemy master/henchman/enforcer (although if your oponent plays it smart this was just a sacrificial move to keep her away from the real objective)

 

if you insist on comparing with other models (will limit myself to masters I have some real knowledge of):

-Sonnia: a little less pure damage, but can damage at range 14", doesn't need Los if burning (and just awesome abilities all round), burning boosts her attack damage, usefull and consistent tactical actions, very compact core crew (just take some witchlings and handler to punp out burning), very good and cheap upgrades (flame pillars, summon witchlings,...), can do more than just do damage (pillars).

-perdita: less flat damage but very consistent in getting damage applied because range 14", very good with the whole family, many options both on her card as in upgrades (damage, obey, family interactions,...).

-Mcmourning: compared to justice he's the real monster. Between all the poison and his amazing threat range via scalpel combined with an amazing thight crew he can be utterly unstoppable.

-hoffmann: amazing buffer, he lives for his crew and his crew lives for him. not really a fair comparison with LJ as they are completly different types of masters. (support caster VS solo hero)

 

there just isn't any reason to take LJ over any of the above unless you take into account "I want to play LJ".

 

The best crew I can come up with is either a construct list (hunters, watchers, peacekeeper, guardian, some extra filling) or a guild guard list (just any guardsmen with dashel/sergeant/drill master).

-constructs, guardian stays close and rest goes objectives elsewhere. this works not because LJ is that good, but because hunter + peacekeeper + watcher will work in any crew. swap LJ with perdita or sonnia and it will stil work (maybe even better as the extra options and range help a lot).                                                             => this list is of course even more potent when you just keep 12points open for miss step/HL and go for hoffman. hoffman + hunter + watcher + miss step + peacekeeper = awesome at almost everything (and missstep with nimble and decapitate can easily outdamage LJ)

-guild guard: works because dashell/sergeant/drill can form a really closed group with guardsmen, riflemen, hounds, mounted cav,... so LJ not being able to synnergies isn't that big a problem. However,.... why not go lucius in this scenario? or for that matter if you yet again swap for sonnia or perdita the crew will still work and in most cases will work even better.

 

So to sum it all up:

In my opinion there isn't a single scenario where you would prefer to take LJ over perdita or sonnia.

 

what needs to change:

-something that makes justice, justice. apart from lore and looks she doesn't rly have an identity apart from "the one that does damage". (condition removal and marker removal could be great but the way that is build in now is inadequate to be substantial to her kit)

-better inner crew workings, synergy.

 

hope for the future:

-addition of emmisary might breath some life into her as it will give her some much needed mobility gimmicks

-upgrade system allows to have targetted future releases for certain masters to pimp up their upgrades. so fingers crossed that at some point justice will get a little boost to make her more interesting

-future model releases that have specific interactions with LJ/marshals.

 

I still love this game, world and it's characters so this isn't meant as pure negativity. also LJ can work, but if someone says she is just as good as other masters that's just plain wrong. the effort you got to put in her is substantional and her options are very limited.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[trikk]

Lady Justice is the model/master that got me into Malifaux so I dig your feelings.

I also had mixed feelings about her, but with Brutal Effigy and Badge of Office she becomes a really hard to get rid off. While she might struggle with Armour models she does have high damage and my Gremlin opponent doesn`t like playing against her. With Mi7 she is also quite the area denial /tarpit. 

 

Boost her defence and push her around and your view on her gameplay will improve (although I agree that Sonnia and Perdita are mostly more versatile

[Ashlian]

yeah I know.

I would mostly take: 

LJ + badge + unimpending

hunters or peacekeeper or both (chain spears + objective runners)

brutal

and with future release probably emmisary

(student of conflict is fun sometimes to give out fast, although pretty expensive and unruly to position)

[trikk]

I like Francisco, Sidir, Papa Loco, Brutal Effigy buff is also nice, as you get double positive with no charge and positive with charge.