Jump to content

Lady Justice - what am I missing? Why is she so great?


CapnBloodbeard

Recommended Posts

So, people often talk about LJ being a beatstick.  She looks at something, then it dies.

 

But....I'm having a hard time seeing it from her stats (I have her crew box, haven't used her yet).  The damage output from the greatsword isn't massive for a master...3/4/6 (4/5/7 with crit strike, built-in ram).  The weak damage is good though.  Mi7 is nice....but I'm sure there are other masters with similar or higher damage tracks.  So what is it about LJ that makesher such a beatstick?

 

Am I underestimating how often Riposte comes up?  What am I missing here?  Because I'm struggling to see what's so brilliant (actually, I'm struggling a bit to see why people love Judge too)...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ok, so what master out there has a better attack than that, pray tell?

For reference, Lilith and the Viks (Two of the other "Killy" masters) have the same damage track and Ml (Ml 7, 3/4/6 Damage).  And neither of them have Crit Strike, including a built in :ram, which in the extreme case that Lady J hits with a :ram and Soulstones for a :ram would bring that up to a 6/7/9 Track, which I believe is the highest anyone can go.

Seamus has a slightly better track on his .50 Flintlock, with 4/6/8 on a Sh 6 :ranged10 attack.. that he is only permitted to use once per turn.

Killjoy has only a slightly better damage track at 4/5/7, although Lady J can reach that with just the built in :ram.

Ice Golem has an attack for 9/10/12, but it cost 3 AP, comparatively and on a Ml 6.  And one of the most feared powerhouses of the Arcanist's damage track is only a 4/5/6, which is slightly stronger than Lady J before Crit Strike being figured in on an Ml 7 attack (Howard Langston).

And that's not considering the fact that Lady J gets default :+fate as long as she did not charge, which can guarantee the chance to cheat many times, meaning Lady J does not require as high of cards to hit while still being able to cheat in Moderate or Severe when needed.

Plus the difference between Ml 6 and Ml 7 is pretty powerful, forcing your opponent to "one up you" in most cases, making your middling cards even more powerful by forcing opponents to cheat into the 10-13 range easier.

Then you can go ahead and figure that of all the "Killy" masters, Lady J is the only one with the chance of gaining Onslaught, granting her a theoretical max of 6 attacks in a single round (Which has happened to me before, despite the unlikelihood of it).  And at 18 minimum damage, most things will melt.  Granted the Viks can get a comparable Upgrade in ignoring Armor, Hard to Wound, Incorporeal and Hard to Kill, which is a decent buff against the right opponent.  Likewise the Viks have triggers for Whirlwind, making them far more dangerous against groups of enemies, but Lady J beats them at single target elimination.

 

I mean, don't see it all you like, but when Lady J wants something dead, you better hope it's too far for her to reach.

Edited by Tawg
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you add Fransceso to the party. She has a def of 7 and riposte suddenly looks a lot scarier.

So far I have not lost a game with LJ  and she got killed only once (in 10 games) but still won the game.

She can be taken down but it requires a lot of attention.  I always add "badge of office" if i suspect a killy master like Seamus or Lilith.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Only Victorias and Ophelia do more single target damage than Lady Justice. Unfortunately the amount of damage doesn't really matter if you are unable to reach your target, which is something Lady Justice is somewhat struggling with.

Her weaknesses with mobility can be solved to an extent with the help from other models, but that doesn't feel all that comforting when you are in the same faction with Perdita and Sonnia, who are some of the best ranged damage dealers in the game. Perdita can even match Lady Justice's damage in melee if the target has armor +1.

If you want a master that can make enemy models disappear, Lady Justice is your third or fourth best choice within the Guild faction. I don't think there is anything too brilliant about her. The only thing she really has going for her is her ability to benefit from Promises aura.

Judge suffers from similar issues. He isn't a terrible henchman, but he's still only third or fourth best, and no one wants to hire number three when numbers one and two are available at the same price.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

To put it also in perspective she has a few things that few other models have in the game:

  • Condition Removal
  • Corpse/Scrap marker destruction
  • Ignore LoS.

Now I see what you are about to say "But Hagisman, Witchling Stalkers have Condition Removal, a Freikorps Specialist can take out markers, and why would I care about ignoring LoS she is Melee only?"

To which I say "Simpleton!"

Her condition removal is probably the biggest aura for it and there is nothing your opponent can do to resist it. Stalkers cause opposed duels which can be cheated against.

Freikorps Specialist? Boo. We don't need no Mercenaries in a faction of completely capable models like Lady J. Not only that but her and the Judge make it so that enemies they kill do not drop markers. The most damage dealing master and henchman in Guild(Arguably).

Lastly have you ever heard of Dense terrain my friend? You know those patches of land where there are trees and crap? Along with her Unimpeded upgrade Lady J can charge right through Dense Terrain without taking penalties and attack your opponent's support pieces he hid behind them thinking they were safe.

Also to get her riposte off more often you could always force your opponent to waste his hand and keep a high card in your hand. Honestly an opponent in Melee with Lady J doesn't need a high stat to do it. But keep an eye on your opponent's hand, did he just throw down a 13 or 12 to hit from his hand? If so the likelihood that he could beat a 19 or 18 has dropped significantly.

Edited by Hagisman
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Never underestimate Onslaught. With that trigger, even with two min-damage, is 7 damage on its own. "Now for attack #2..."

For some anecdotal evidence, Lady J took down, Vik of Ashes, Killjoy, and Vik of Blood before being stabbed in the back by my own Guardian. It took all my stones and Df+2 to survive that, but she gutted the enemy team on her own.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Never underestimate Onslaught. With that trigger, even with two min-damage, is 7 damage on its own. "Now for attack #2..."

No it isn't.

Only Victorias and Ophelia do more single target damage than Lady Justice.

Mah Tuckett says hello ;)

Tell her I said hi, and that she does less damage than Lady Justice.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Never underestimate Onslaught. With that trigger, even with two min-damage, is 7 damage on its own. "Now for attack #2..."

For some anecdotal evidence, Lady J took down, Vik of Ashes, Killjoy, and Vik of Blood before being stabbed in the back by my own Guardian. It took all my stones and Df+2 to survive that, but she gutted the enemy team on her own.

Sorry, but you can't declare Triggers on the onslaught attack, so its actually minimum damage 6. Thats Why I don't like it, because Lady J is doing 5 or 6 minimum on the one attack with Similar resources spent. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Never underestimate Onslaught. With that trigger, even with two min-damage, is 7 damage on its own. "Now for attack #2..."

For some anecdotal evidence, Lady J took down, Vik of Ashes, Killjoy, and Vik of Blood before being stabbed in the back by my own Guardian. It took all my stones and Df+2 to survive that, but she gutted the enemy team on her own.

Sorry, but you can't declare Triggers on the onslaught attack, so its actually minimum damage 6. Thats Why I don't like it, because Lady J is doing 5 or 6 minimum on the one attack with Similar resources spent. 

Against targets with armor Onslaught gets even worse compared to plain old critical strike.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Never underestimate Onslaught. With that trigger, even with two min-damage, is 7 damage on its own. "Now for attack #2..."

For some anecdotal evidence, Lady J took down, Vik of Ashes, Killjoy, and Vik of Blood before being stabbed in the back by my own Guardian. It took all my stones and Df+2 to survive that, but she gutted the enemy team on her own.

Sorry, but you can't declare Triggers on the onslaught attack, so its actually minimum damage 6. Thats Why I don't like it, because Lady J is doing 5 or 6 minimum on the one attack with Similar resources spent. 

4 min on regular attack + 3 min on Onslaught? Maybe I left out that you should stone for an Onslaught :) That being the worst case scenario of hitting min twice. If you didn't charge and already have the :+fate to damage, 7-13 with one attack is pretty juicy.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Never underestimate Onslaught. With that trigger, even with two min-damage, is 7 damage on its own. "Now for attack #2..."

For some anecdotal evidence, Lady J took down, Vik of Ashes, Killjoy, and Vik of Blood before being stabbed in the back by my own Guardian. It took all my stones and Df+2 to survive that, but she gutted the enemy team on her own.

Sorry, but you can't declare Triggers on the onslaught attack, so its actually minimum damage 6. Thats Why I don't like it, because Lady J is doing 5 or 6 minimum on the one attack with Similar resources spent. 

4 min on regular attack + 3 min on Onslaught? Maybe I left out that you should stone for an Onslaught :) That being the worst case scenario of hitting min twice. If you didn't charge and already have the :+fate to damage, 7-13 with one attack is pretty juicy.

You can't declare two triggers on the initial attack either.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Only Victorias and Ophelia do more single target damage than Lady Justice.

Mah Tuckett says hello ;)

Sorry this is the big league :p. I don't even think Mah is considered a heavy hitter amongst the Gremlin faction (I would say Som'er and possible Wong can both out damage her). 

With Lenny, a stone and a ram card, Mah equals Lady J's minimum damage when she uses a stone and a card as well (weak 3, crit strike with up to 3 rams). And Mah can be reach 3 and Ml 8, potentially, too. She might not immediately seem like it, but she's capable of hitting like a truck in the right circumstances. Lady J can do higher damage more easily, due to having her ram built in, and having built in + damage flips when she doesn't charge, but I'd say Diving Charge is generally better than Blind Fighting and Unimpeded (Lady J can make some charges that Mah can't, but Mah can charge out of engagements and over models and impassible terrain, so long as she has line of sight). She's not necessarily better, and she's more difficult to use, but Mah can put down a model just as quick as Justice when she really needs to.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

With Lenny, a stone and a ram card, Mah equals Lady J's minimum damage when she uses a stone and a card as well (weak 3, crit strike with up to 3 rams). And Mah can be reach 3 and Ml 8, potentially, too. She might not immediately seem like it, but she's capable of hitting like a truck in the right circumstances. Lady J can do higher damage more easily, due to having her ram built in, and having built in + damage flips when she doesn't charge, but I'd say Diving Charge is generally better than Blind Fighting and Unimpeded (Lady J can make some charges that Mah can't, but Mah can charge out of engagements and over models and impassible terrain, so long as she has line of sight). She's not necessarily better, and she's more difficult to use, but Mah can put down a model just as quick as Justice when she really needs to.

Oh, I'd say Mah is definitely better. She just doesn't do more damage.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Only Victorias and Ophelia do more single target damage than Lady Justice.

Mah Tuckett says hello ;)

Sorry this is the big league :p. I don't even think Mah is considered a heavy hitter amongst the Gremlin faction (I would say Som'er and possible Wong can both out damage her). 

I always thought Ophelia was the premier damage dealer in the faction.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Unfortunately the amount of damage doesn't really matter if you are unable to reach your target, which is something Lady Justice is somewhat struggling with.

...

Judge suffers from similar issues. He isn't a terrible henchman, but he's still only third or fourth best, and no one wants to hire number three when numbers one and two are available at the same price.

100% agree.  The only time I look at LJ is in some instance where her Pulse powers (Justice Unleashed or maybe Restore Natural Order) are going to be game breaking (e.g. possibly vs. Ressers on a Strat like Turf War).  I think her ability to charge without LoS is also under-appreciated in general, but for the most part it's just too easy for a good opponent to tar pit her and keep her busy killing junk models, instead of completing vital tasks.

So yeah, what Myyra said :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information