Pig Charge and Obey-like effects

[decker_cky]

My opponent's War Pig is not engaged with any of my models. It is within 1" of my opponent's Som'er (so within the War Pig's melee range).

 

I use obey/alpha/whatever to take control of it. Can I use pigcharge and charge those models, giving me 2 attacks for 1AP (or 4 for 2 with alpha)? That's not even factoring in a potential stampede! 

 

The key question is whether the model is engaged. You can't charge while engaged (p.44).

 

My reading is that you are not engaged, since models are never engaged with models friendly to them (p.44).

 

"When a model's actions are controlled by the opponent (for instance with the Obey Action) the model does not change which models are considered friendly, its friends are still its friends." p.31

 

Am I right that because of pigcharge, the war pig becomes a significant liability against those opponents?

[Dirial]

Your reading and reasoning is correct.

[brdparker]

Yep, agreed... isn't that a nice vicious little thing to look out for when I play gremlins next?

[brdparker]

Actually, now I'm looking at it, that leads straight into another rules question, "can a model be 'engaged' with a friendly model?"

 

If the WP triggers stampede, it immediately charges the closest model "that it is not engaged with." Could that be (for example) the friendly Som'er that it attacked before or does it have to be another one?

 

Sorry, don't have the rulebook on me to look up engagement.

[Myyrä]

"Models are never engaged with models that are friendly to them.""

[Bengt]

Actually, now I'm looking at it, that leads straight into another rules question, "can a model be 'engaged' with a friendly model?"

 

If the WP triggers stampede, it immediately charges the closest model "that it is not engaged with." Could that be (for example) the friendly Som'er that it attacked before or does it have to be another one?

 

Sorry, don't have the rulebook on me to look up engagement.

You are never engaged with friendly models so the pig can continue on the same model.

[brdparker]

Now, that's vicious. That could easily (with a few rams) lead to 4-5 attacks off an alpha. I'm going to use that next time

[decker_cky]

You can only trigger stampede once per activation. But one stampede should mean up to 6 attacks, as long as you don't trigger "grab on." 2 charges, plus a bonus charge from stampede. 

[papa smurf]

If you obey to charge you can't use obey on that same model. Since it took an attack action. So you get the charge then the stampede and that is it. Which is still not bad. Course if you play Zoraida as Gremlin you can pig charge rooster charge the world.

[Ausplosions]

A charge is a tactical action.  

 

You can obey a model to charge multiple times. 

[Clement]

A charge is a tactical action.  

 

You can obey a model to charge multiple times. 

Obey carries the specific wording "A model which performed an Attack due to Obey may not be targeted by Obey again during the same Activation."

 

I'd agree that charge is a tactical action.  I'd then say that Charge causes 2 attacks.  Are you concluding that the attacks generated BY the charge are not "due to Obey"?

[papa smurf]

I guess semantics

A model which performed an Attack due to Obey may not be targeted by Obey again during the same Activation.

Due to seems clear to me.

[Ausplosions]

It's taking a Tactical action due to obey. It is taking an attack action due to a tactical action. 

 

 

You can obey a model to take multiple charge actions. 

[Phinn]

It's taking a Tactical action due to obey. It is taking an attack action due to a tactical action. 

 

 

You can obey a model to take multiple charge actions. 

 

I would say that the intention of "A model which performed an Attack due to Obey may not be targeted by Obey again during the same Activation." is clear - to prevent multiple Attack Actions via Obey Actions.

 

There are some exceptions though. Like aformentioned Pigcharge and Roostercharge Abilities, where you get to perform 2 (1) Attack Actions, or Francois LaCroix' Trigger on (1) Rough Rider - Loose Trigger: After damaging, this model suffers one damage and then immediately takes this Action again.

 

You can Obey model to Pigcharge/Roostercharge and possibly get Stampede Trigger resulting in 4  (1) Attack Actions for a single AP, but you can not target the same model with Obey during the same Activation.

[Dirial]

It's taking a Tactical action due to obey. It is taking an attack action due to a tactical action. 

 

 

You can obey a model to take multiple charge actions. 

 

Debatable. And it has been done.

[Jeebus]

Now here's something, could you obey a warpig to charge, then obey vasilisa to obey the same warpig to charge? (assuming you are playing Neverborn Zoriada with Vasilisa)

[Phinn]

Now here's something, could you obey a warpig to charge, then obey vasilisa to obey the same warpig to charge? (assuming you are playing Neverborn Zoriada with Vasilisa)

You can not, because it is still the same (Zoraida's) Activation.

[Dirial]

You can not, because it is still the same (Zoraida's) Activation.

 

Yeah, this.

[Jeebus]

okay. just thinking at work. didn't have the cards with me. 

[Dirial]

okay. just thinking at work. didn't have the cards with me. 

 

No worries. We're forgetting stuff all the time. Except Myyrä. That guy knows everything.

[Myyrä]

No worries. We're forgetting stuff all the time. Except Myyrä. That guy knows everything.

While I do know most of the rules by heart, my real secret is that I check my facts before posting on the rules forum. I wouldn't mind if other people did that too.

[Dirial]

While I do know most of the rules by heart, my real secret is that I check my facts before posting on the rules forum. I wouldn't mind if other people did that too.

 

I do, too. Most of the time. Sometimes I fuck up. Usually when posting about Kirai...

[lusciousmccabe]

While I do know most of the rules by heart, my real secret is that I check my facts before posting on the rules forum. I wouldn't mind if other people did that too.

 

Sounds crazy to me. I just go with my gut instinct and consult chicken innards to fill any gaps.