McMourning without Transfusion

[zFiend]

So this idea popped to my head today. What it would be like to play McMourning without Transfusion? That way his biggest/worst thing would be taken away. It would be tougher to get poison in as you would need to do that with your crew, or Rancid Transplant it which might require positioning if you don't want to waste your whole activation pumping a model full of poison. 

 

Also how would he do as a more dedicated summoner. So I threw together this list: 

 

Resurrectionists Crew - 50 - Scrap

 

Dr. Douglas McMourning -- 4 Pool

 +Decaying Aura [2]

 +Moonlighting [1]

 +Spare Parts [2]

 

Zombie Chihuahua [2]

Guild Autopsy [4]

Guild Autopsy [4]

Mortimer [9]

 +Corpse Bloat [2]

Nurse [5]

Rafkin [7]

Rotten Belle [5]

Sebastian [7]

 

And went to my game of Squatter's Rights, Alits, Plant Evidence, Breakthrough, Protect Territory and Take Prisoner against Neverborn. 

 

The game ended 10-8 to my favour. Funny thing was this game got dragged on to turn 8. At turn 5 it would have ended 8-6 to my favour. I

 

But playing McMourning without Transfusion was super fun! I actually had to think up on my activations off when and how to get poison in and hope the model doesn't get away before I do get enough poison in and will I have the cards to pull of Rancid Transplant multiple times to ensure enough poison. Instead of the usual Lure+Lure+Lure+Lure+Transfusion+Accomplice+Expunge = Dead model instantly with no counter. 

 

Also I got a Rogue Necro turn 2. Another just for fun on turn 8. I had a possibility to get one on turn 4 but I had no crows and stones were gone. I got in 2 Fleshies and one dog as well. Anyway it was a really fun game and gave some more depth and excitement to play the goold old Doctor. 

 

Thoughts? 

[Dirial]

Sounds good. Like a fun experience for both parties. More like his intended playstyle. Or at least the one I would have liked to be his intended one.

[MasterDisaster]

zFiend... playing... minimizing... filth?  

 

WHO ARE YOU AND WHAT HAVE YOU DONE WITH THE REAL ZFIEND?!?! 

[PraetorDragoon]

This is more similar to the lists I use. (I play usually non-stompy casual, so no insta-gibbing. ) Haven't tried Spare Parts on him yet, as I usually run Manical Laugh and let Sebastian raise doggies. I have had some fun with Shikome as unusual supects. (1) Charges are filth. 

 

8 Turn game is pretty interesting though. 

[zFiend]

Sounds good. Like a fun experience for both parties. More like his intended playstyle. Or at least the one I would have liked to be his intended one.

 

Yeah I gotta agree. Transfusion makes the poison bomb so easy with no McMourning AP spent. You just build it up, Transfusion it with a Ca6 and then just Expunge the model away with Ca7 both (0) actions. Playing without Transfusion, like I said I had to build it up with the crew, Rancid Transplant it with using my own models to get the poison in while they take damage and have to position. 

 

This way it felt like there was really something else going on than going for the turn 2 master kill. But I had a ton of fun. I asked my opponent how he felt the McMourning performed and he said that it didn't feel overwhelming and he was a fun opponent to play against. Gotta say that's a first.  

[MasterDisaster]

So basically you played him like Guild McMourning with more poison spreading undead and summoned one of the filthiest enforcers the Ressers have not once but twice. I only played McMourning twice before he got put on a ban list by my regular opponents / friends... Dark times!

[zFiend]

So basically you played him like Guild McMourning with more poison spreading undead and summoned one of the filthiest enforcers the Ressers have not once but twice. I only played McMourning twice before he got put on a ban list by my regular opponents / friends... Dark times!

 

Yeah and that was the kind version! Add to that Transfusion.  

[Haunter]

I've only played the good doctor a handful of times (most of the handful of games I've played).  I dogmatically took Transfusion the first 2 games (my first 2 games of Malifaux) but had a hard time making it fly (largely due to inexperience I suspect).  I poisoned up one of my own crew and then failed to get Transfusion off... for 2 turns.  It was unfortunate.  After that I went the route you're suggesting - lots of poison-centric or at least poison-spreading models and letting the Expunge bomb be a bonus rather than a focus.  Seems to have worked okay.  I've reliably gotten a flesh construct or two, and a dog or two over the game - not focused on summoning, but certainly nice adds.

 

All it takes is a little poison to make dogs, Shikome (haven't tried them yet, but they're on the list!), Rafkin, and Sebastian punch above their weight class in some way.

 

Tangentially, what have peoples' experiences been of playing Doug in a non-poison-centric crew?  Is he sufficient as a stand-alone without his toxic friends around?  What would a non-poison crew look like for you?  

[zFiend]

I have played him for some time with the Transfusion path and I've never really failed to deliver the bomb. You have two models with the poison bombs and two models with the Transfusion and two models with Expunge so that rarely fails. It's a Ca6 after all with the Transfusion so that goes through a majority of models, Expunge is a ca7 so that can be counted for to use a lower card. But you need to be aggressive with stoning for cards if you don't get them in hand on turn 1 or turn 2. It always pays off when a key model leaves the table.

 

I haven't yet tried a non poison list. I have just played one game Transfusionless and I think I'm gonna try it out for at least a few more games and try to report back here how it goes. 

 

If you do play a game with no poison on the doctor I'd really like to hear your thoughts on it, if you could report here?  

[deValmont]

I think I probably do more large-scale poisoning using Rancid transplant or Nurses than I do with Transfusion, it's more AP expensive but it enables me to get more things poisoned in one turn and so Catalyst ticks more damage. If I use Transfusion then it's usually specifically to get out a Flesh Construct.

[zFiend]

Rancid Transplant is a really good tool for getting the poison in, you just need to position your models correctly. But that's why Autopsies and Constructs are good, because they take damage, but they can heal it with their own poison. 

[Kogan Style]

Really interested in this thread as I'm moving from Seamus and Molly and trying my hand with the good doctor. 

 

Seamus has taught me which Resurr models can operate independently of their Master and I wonder - how much synergy does McM need from his crew to be effective? 

 

Reading the cards, it feels like his ability to get scheme markers going and the re-positioning could be good avenues to explore as well as the more traditional Poison spreading. 

[zFiend]

Injection is pure gold. 

 

You can really make out of activations Plant Evidence, Breakthrough. Plant Explosives is really easy with Injection too. If you use it on your Flesh Constructs or Autopsies you won't even feel the backfire of Poison +2. As well as you get to reposition them. Usually though you might want to opt for Expunge as it's quite a big competition for Injection but there are times when VP is more important than killing.  

[Sezar]

It has past way more than a full year since the last time I took the doctor, but I have never used Transfusion and McM has always given me good results, even too good sometimes! At the same time, I have never taken Rafkin, although I have suffering him and he is really good, maybe a tod too good also.

My McM style is pretty aggresive and makes good use of Rancid Transplant for the Expunges... But I dont really focus on summoning, that is just a bonus.

That said, I use to try to spread lower amounts of poison on as many models as I can, to maximice Sebastian's aura, which usually ends with new Canine Remains all over the place anyway.

If I remember correctly, I always took Moonlightning and Plastic Surgery, as well as Decaying Aura (which is a pretty flithy pack, imho)

[zFiend]

I have a game coming up, depending on what it turns out I'll either go Transfusionless Doctor and focus on Summoning again or Seamus. I packed those two to go.

[zFiend]

So I decided to go McMourning. Game was Squatter's Rights, plant evidence, power ritual, Breakthrough and bodyguard. I took plant evidence and power ritual announced.

So I didn't even get out of my deployment when the Gremlins came running in I was pretty much boxed and shot, I managed to escape with two autopsies to make my schemes and take two Squatter's markers. Other than that my whole crew fought with the green buggers in my starting point.

McMourning summoned 2x Rogue Necromancies and 1 Autopsy. That was it. He got killed turn 4. Somer lost his life on turn 3, Sebastian and Rafkin got killed turn 3 and 4. Both Necromancies died too. It was a hella brutal game.

It took 7 turns of absolute murder and Mayhem to pull of a 10-4 and only Autopsy standing on the board alone. The same model that withstood Pandora for 8 turns! That guy is an absolute beast, he killed Lenny turn 7 to take the Crown of the last man standing.

Fun game! One of the most brutal ones I've played. But man is McMourning super fun. Though all he did was cover in fear and summon Necromancies to work as his meatshields. He tried to turn Somer to a construct but black jokered the attack.

[Kogan Style]

What upgrades did you take? Assuming not Transfusion. Rafkin is the only metal Resurr model I do not own, is he key for McM? I like the idea that McM can hybrid between Summoner, beat stick and poison bombing.

[zFiend]

I took Moonlighting, Spare Parts and Decaying Aura. Everyone else ran naked. Rafkin is great on paper but he rarely does anything. Everyone seems to have taken it their priority to kill him first. So it's a 7ss meatshield really for others to get vengeance on.

I have been having a blast playing summoner McMourning. I have also been tinkering with a turn 2 Rogue Necro. Mortimer with corpse bloat for two games now but I'm not sure yet is it worth it yet. I need to play more.

[admiralvorkraft]

zFiend, this is a cross-thread tangent so I apologize in advance.

 

I really have enjoyed reading this thread, especially in the context of the Sonnia discussion, because what you've chosen to do here is ignore the obvious synergy of Transfusion bombing and take a more nuanced approach to the master, get a deeper understanding of what he can do - and you've been successful at it. In many ways I think that's the same place that people get to with Sonnia after a few (dozen) games. Papa-in-a-Box Sonnia is an obvious synergy, it's obviously powerful, it seems like the only "smart" way to play, but it makes Sonnia a very one-dimensional master.

 

Sure that one dimension is awesome, so is Transfusion-bomb McMourning. But Sonnia can also run as a heavy denial master with Counterspell Aura and the witchhunter upgrade that I can never remember the name of. Swap out Papa for a second Witchling Handler and you have a surprising amount of friendly mobility enhancement (for Guild) if you run Minion heavy which, with Sonnia summoning in Witchlings, you will be after a turn or two.

 

I guess what I'm trying to say is that, as annoying as you find Papa-in-a-Box to be - and as annoying as I find Transfusion-bombing to be - they are a part of the game that makes a lot of sense. That doesn't mean that they are a be all and end all, and just because they are obvious doesn't mean that they are "broken" or even the strongest way to play a given master.

 

Anyway, my two cents.

[zFiend]

Thank you for your thoughts and insight on the matter admiralvorkraft. I believe you have a very good point there.

 

I did play for quite some time the Transfusion-Bomb McMourning and I still heavily believe that it's more powerful than McMourning without it. I actually do think that McMourning with Transfusion might be a bit too good. Since you do it with Ca6 on a (0) action, so you can walk twice to your opponent if needed and cast it. Then you Accomplice another model who then utterly destroys the target with a Ca7 (0) action and still has 3 ap to finish it off should it survive with a Ml6 and if that's not enough you get the target to come to you at a Ca8. 

 

Now that is some seriously dead models starting turn 1-2. The combination of it all is what makes it a bit over the top. As it is with Papa-in-the-box Sonnia and Francisco with any given master. It does something you can't really counter to that has a very high power level. But that was a discussion we had and it's gone now yadda yadda. I do value your opinion and thanks for taking the time to write it. I am always up for a good discussion.  

[zFiend]

Oh right I forgot to post this here. One more game in:

So McMourning went against Nicodem in sheer terror of Hanged's floating around (and they did). Didn't get to summon all that much this game, only 3 Fleshies came knocking about. My opponent summoned 2 Hanged's, Fleshie and I think that was actually it. He mainly used Nico to hand out fast to Rogue Necro and Sybelle (which was quite brutal) and to give out Undead Crowning.

It was a pretty brutal game of Turf war with Breakthrough, Plant Evidence, Outlflank and Bodyguard. I took Plant Evidence and announced Breakthrough. My opponent took Plant Evidence and Bodyguard on Chiaki, too bad she got turned into a Fleshie. Sybelle utterly devastated my poor Fleshies and Sebastian through Complying them to attack each other, mainly Fleshies beating on Sebastian. There were some Red Jokers on damage etc.

I got 3 for Breakthrough (my undying autopsy made it once again! With only 1wd). 2 for Plant Evidence, Chiaki got away and 4 for Turf War. My opponent got 4 for Turf War and 2 for Plant Evidence.

McMourning got prison showered by a Hanged, took him down from 14 wounds to 3 wounds in one activation they're that okay ffs.

Game ended with Nicodem, Graveyard Spirit and Sybelle alive on the opposing side and McMourning, Guild Autopsy, Sebastian, Rafkin, Fleshie and a Nurse alive on my side.

It was a brutal war. And I rarely condone on Rezzer on Rezzer violence, but it had to be done for my campaign.

I thought this game would be a Summoning extravaganza but it really wasn't. But it was a super fun game.

[zFiend]

I don't wanna start another thread for this, so I'm just gonna post it here.

 

So today I had a tryout with my new list for Nicodem. It was Poison oriented and it worked quite well actually. The game was Corner deployment, Reconnoiter, Power Ritual, Protect Territory, Breakthrough, Murder Protege I think. My list was:

 

Nicodem -- 6 Pool

 +Maniacal Laugh [1]

 +Spare Parts [2]

 +Undertaker [1]

 

Malifaux Child [3]

Guild Autopsy [4]

Guild Autopsy [4]

Mortimer [9]

 +Corpse Bloat [2]

Night Terror [3]

Night Terror [3]

Rafkin [7]

Sebastian [7]

 +Transfusion [1]

 

Idea was to abuse poison with Nicodem and take advantage of the (1) action charges with Rafkin and Shikomes that I would be summoning. I got in a full wounded Shikome on turn 1 and turn 2 thanks to Patchwork trigger. Guild Autopsies were there to dish out Poison at range, Sebastian would give out Poison with either his ml or by Transfusion and Mortimer also was there to give out Poison if needed. 

 

I summoned: Two Shikomes and two Autopsies during the game. That was it, mainly Nicodem was there to give out Fast to either the Autopsies or Shikomes and Malifaux Child was there to help with that. 

 

It actually worked quite well. The game was against a very trial and unorthodox Tara list (full of minions, which worked quite nicely.) though Nicodem took it 10-5. A Fast Shikome with a (1) Charge to Poisoned models and still having 2 AP after that is brutal! With their triggers they really tore models to shreds. Tara was killed by them turn 2 due to overextending but she went down quite efficiently. On top of Shikomes being really fast with wk 6 they really were the key models to this. Guild Autopsies with sh5 and Infect can really put the Poison in quite reliably with Fast as well. Rafkin just melted again without doing anything really but the Shikomes did the heavy lifting anyway, I overextended Rafkin and the table was setup so that I really had to send him the other with one Autopsy and they got the Hanged greeting them so he couldn't take that at all. 

 

I didn't get to summon the Rogue Necro I was hoping for but at least it was there if I had the chance. Not sure does this list need the Rogue Necro though, but I have been experimenting with Spare Parts quite a lot lately. 

 

Surely this list needs some more table time but for now, I'm really glad I tried it and I will try it again. I would be really interested in hearing thoughts and comments about this?  

[Math Mathonwy]

I have actually been thinking of something similar for Molly. All in all I've been wondering about using a Poison focus for Ressers for someone else besides McM as it seems like it could have potential.

But yeah, for Molly, Summoning Shikomes being Slow is mitigated by them being allowed to Charge for 1 AP against Poisoned foes. And Poison seems like it would nicely complement her Black Blood and the Summon Wounds and her all in all "a death of a thousand cuts" style that goes through Armor and HtW and HtK and such defenses.

[zFiend]

I have actually been thinking of something similar for Molly. All in all I've been wondering about using a Poison focus for Ressers for someone else besides McM as it seems like it could have potential.

But yeah, for Molly, Summoning Shikomes being Slow is mitigated by them being allowed to Charge for 1 AP against Poisoned foes. And Poison seems like it would nicely complement her Black Blood and the Summon Wounds and her all in all "a death of a thousand cuts" style that goes through Armor and HtW and HtK and such defenses.

 

The poison subtheme is actually very powerful. I think you should give Poison-Molly a try. It sounds like something that would be very interesting to see. Also Shikomes beginning that (1) Charge with a Shrieking Challenge on ca6 to get adversary in to get and +1 damage really makes them even better. 

[Patzer]

I have actually been thinking of something similar for Molly. All in all I've been wondering about using a Poison focus for Ressers for someone else besides McM as it seems like it could have potential.

But yeah, for Molly, Summoning Shikomes being Slow is mitigated by them being allowed to Charge for 1 AP against Poisoned foes. And Poison seems like it would nicely complement her Black Blood and the Summon Wounds and her all in all "a death of a thousand cuts" style that goes through Armor and HtW and HtK and such defenses.

This certainly got potential! What models would you hire/summon to get the poison rolling?

 

I don't wanna start another thread for this, so I'm just gonna post it here.

 

So today I had a tryout with my new list for Nicodem. It was Poison oriented and it worked quite well actually. The game was Corner deployment, Reconnoiter, Power Ritual, Protect Territory, Breakthrough, Murder Protege I think. My list was:

 

Nicodem -- 6 Pool

 +Maniacal Laugh [1]

 +Spare Parts [2]

 +Undertaker [1]

 

Malifaux Child [3]

Guild Autopsy [4]

Guild Autopsy [4]

Mortimer [9]

 +Corpse Bloat [2]

Night Terror [3]

Night Terror [3]

Rafkin [7]

Sebastian [7]

 +Transfusion [1]

 

Idea was to abuse poison with Nicodem and take advantage of the (1) action charges with Rafkin and Shikomes that I would be summoning. I got in a full wounded Shikome on turn 1 and turn 2 thanks to Patchwork trigger. Guild Autopsies were there to dish out Poison at range, Sebastian would give out Poison with either his ml or by Transfusion and Mortimer also was there to give out Poison if needed. 

 

I summoned: Two Shikomes and two Autopsies during the game. That was it, mainly Nicodem was there to give out Fast to either the Autopsies or Shikomes and Malifaux Child was there to help with that. 

 

It actually worked quite well. The game was against a very trial and unorthodox Tara list (full of minions, which worked quite nicely.) though Nicodem took it 10-5. A Fast Shikome with a (1) Charge to Poisoned models and still having 2 AP after that is brutal! With their triggers they really tore models to shreds. Tara was killed by them turn 2 due to overextending but she went down quite efficiently. On top of Shikomes being really fast with wk 6 they really were the key models to this. Guild Autopsies with sh5 and Infect can really put the Poison in quite reliably with Fast as well. Rafkin just melted again without doing anything really but the Shikomes did the heavy lifting anyway, I overextended Rafkin and the table was setup so that I really had to send him the other with one Autopsy and they got the Hanged greeting them so he couldn't take that at all. 

 

I didn't get to summon the Rogue Necro I was hoping for but at least it was there if I had the chance. Not sure does this list need the Rogue Necro though, but I have been experimenting with Spare Parts quite a lot lately. 

 

Surely this list needs some more table time but for now, I'm really glad I tried it and I will try it again. I would be really interested in hearing thoughts and comments about this?

 

Rafkin seems like such a nice fit in this sort of list, but he is just so easy to kill and will have a very big target on him. Will you continue to hire him, for his potential?

 

I really like the pairing of a Malifaux Child with Nicodem from a fluff perspective. A child that have for some reason got in contact with the necromantic arts, and from that fallen into Nicodem's lap. He has a history of taking young prospects under his wing (i.e. Kirai). Besides the very neatly painted story, did the Mal. Child bring something to the table?

 

All and all, nice list, will follow the development closely!