So, that Hoffman guy...

[Pyrflamme]

Damn, completely forgot that clause. And here I was hoping there would be an interesting variant on Hoffman crew selection. Maybe it still works out in a way with Wardens benefiting from having Dashel and Dashel enabling other non-construct Guardsmen, but other constructs probably end up being better.

[MasterDisaster]

Damn, completely forgot that clause. And here I was hoping there would be an interesting variant on Hoffman crew selection. Maybe it still works out in a way with Wardens benefiting from having Dashel and Dashel enabling other non-construct Guardsmen, but other constructs probably end up being better.

 

Hoffman doesn't need to be shoehorned into all Constructs. Whilst fun and fluffy I almost always seriously consider Austringers and Witchling Stalkers in my crews. I tend to focus heavily on Constructs but that's why I take Hoffman. He doesn't need pure Constructs to work well though, just a few to make the Loop and go from there. 

[Jewomie]

I noticed this while playing my game with him. The constructs that stayed close the whole game were great, but once they left the bubble and started a turn out in the field somewhere, they weren't as good all the sudden. So since I have Lucious, Sonnia, and McCabe stuff all over the place, I was thinking about taking Hoff with 2 or 3 constructs and then maybe something like Daschel and some riflemen, or witchlings and Hopkins/Sidir. even the judge and marshals depending on what I'm up against and what I need done.

 

Also, this shores up the obvious weakness of having low Df and high armor all over the place while playing against Outcasts.

[admiralvorkraft]

I've only run Hoffman once, but I really ended up feeling like All-Constructs wasn't a great way to go. You hit diminishing marginal returns really quickly if you start spending your whole turn setting up Power Loop, and you suffer from a lack of cheap activations even with Arcanist assets opening up a huge number of strong 4 point options.

[decker_cky]

It's not only power loop though - with power loop, you only need 1-2 extra constructs to cover the key stats (Guardian and whatever you want to be Df6 Ml7, generally), and with activation order, you can get away with only using it every other turn (activate early on turn X, then late on turn X+1 and early again on turn X+2). 

 

He also benefits from boosted Ca near constructs, and boosts constructs with healing, machine puppet, on site assimilation, tap power, and most importantly, update hardware. Everything about Hoffman is designed for constructs. A non-construct or two will make sense in many cases, but generally, he's all about constructs.

[MasterDisaster]

It's not only power loop though - with power loop, you only need 1-2 extra constructs to cover the key stats (Guardian and whatever you want to be Df6 Ml7, generally), and with activation order, you can get away with only using it every other turn (activate early on turn X, then late on turn X+1 and early again on turn X+2). 

 

He also benefits from boosted Ca near constructs, and boosts constructs with healing, machine puppet, on site assimilation, tap power, and most importantly, update hardware. Everything about Hoffman is designed for constructs. A non-construct or two will make sense in many cases, but generally, he's all about constructs.

 

This.

 

He works very well with a pure construct crew however having the bare amount required to get a successful loop going and having some non constructs also works just fine. It's just the none construct models have to be good enough in their own right to justify a place as they will get no support from Hoffman at all. 

[dgraz]

If a metal Gamin uses Protection of Metal on itself for the Df 6......is that considered printed on? Ie; can Hoff then loop it to gain both Ca 8 and Df 6?

[decker_cky]

Not sure dgraz, but my instinct is that it isn't considered printed.

 

I forgot about the mobile tool kit. But I'm not sure I could give up the mechanical attendant and his dampening field (is that the right name?) well... the skill that negates blasts, pulses, and auras within 3 inches. Also, I can see times when his condi removal will be nice to have around.

 

Mobile toolkit isn't a totem this edition, so it's just a 3ss construct you can keep around.

[Dirial]

If a metal Gamin uses Protection of Metal on itself for the Df 6......is that considered printed on? Ie; can Hoff then loop it to gain both Ca 8 and Df 6?

 

I don't think so. It's a condition, not its native defense which I think 'printed' alludes to.

 

Wait, can a Metal Gamin protect itself?

[Myyrä]

I don't think so. It's a condition, not its native defense which I think 'printed' alludes to.

 

Wait, can a Metal Gamin protect itself?

You can easily recognize printed values from the fact that they are printed on the model's stat line. (Or on an Action in the case of offensive stats.)

 

Metal Gamins can and often protect themselves. This is quite useful because Metal Gamins are quite often close to at least one Metal Gamin, and when they are in a position to hit something they are usually engaged with said something, which means that Headbutt causes 2 burning.

[Dirial]

You can easily recognize printed values from the fact that they are printed on the model's stat line. (Or on an Action in the case of offensive stats.)

 

Metal Gamins can and often protect themselves. This is quite useful because Metal Gamins are quite often close to at least one Metal Gamin, and when they are in a position to hit something they are usually engaged with said something, which means that Headbutt causes 2 burning.

 

Never noticed that. Always thought it was 'other friendly model'. Cool!

[MasterDisaster]

You can easily recognize printed values from the fact that they are printed on the model's stat line. (Or on an Action in the case of offensive stats.)

 

Metal Gamins can and often protect themselves. This is quite useful because Metal Gamins are quite often close to at least one Metal Gamin, and when they are in a position to hit something they are usually engaged with said something, which means that Headbutt causes 2 burning.

 

zFiend has used this against me once or twice in the past. It's a neat little trick.

[Myyrä]

zFiend has used this against me once or twice in the past. It's a neat little trick.

I wonder where he could have possibly seen someone do that...

[jonahmaul]

Wait, can a Metal Gamin protect itself?

Yeah, it's very frustrating!  It's a tactical action so they can do it on themselves and they count as being a friendly Gamin within 3" of themselves.

 

You can easily recognize printed values from the fact that they are printed on the model's stat line. (Or on an Action in the case of offensive stats.)

I'm guessing it's being asked because some things, like the Doppelganger, state that you treat things 'as if they are written on the card' (I have no idea if there's other examples but if Gamin did state that it changed the value as printed on the card then Hoffman could Power Loop it).

[Sholto]

I treat Power Loop literally, so that Power Loop can only use a Stat value that is actually printed on the card in front of me.

[Dirial]

I treat Power Loop literally, so that Power Loop can only use a Stat value that is actually printed on the card in front of me.

 

Does that mean you count Metal Gamin protecting themselves?

[Myyrä]

Does that mean you count Metal Gamin protecting themselves?

Description of a condition is hardly the same thing as printed stat. To me the distinction seems pretty clear, but does it seem unclear to someone else? I'm honestly curious.

[zFiend]

I wonder where he could have possibly seen someone do that...

Not you.

[Dirial]

Description of a condition is hardly the same thing as printed stat. To me the distinction seems pretty clear, but does it seem unclear to someone else? I'm honestly curious.

 

I agree, but the claim of taking it literally doesn't clear it up much, as that Df stat is printed on the Metal Gamin's card.

[Myyrä]

Not you.

You have definitely seen me do it, but it might not have been the first time.

[zFiend]

You have definitely seen me do it, but it might not have been the first time.

It also reads on their card.

[Myyrä]

I agree, but the claim of taking it literally doesn't clear it up much, as that Df stat is printed on the Metal Gamin's card.

But is the printed numerical Df from Metal Gamin or just a printed Df in a description of a condition on the Metal Gamin's card?

[Dirial]

But is the printed numerical Df from Metal Gamin or just a printed Df in a description of a condition on the Metal Gamin's card?

 

I would argue that it's the former but

 

I treat Power Loop literally, so that Power Loop can only use a Stat value that is actually printed on the card in front of me.

 

this definition could include the latter, so I was just asking for a clarification what he means.

[MasterDisaster]

I don't really see how there is any room for interpretation on Power Loop, well, unless you are one of those guys.

 

"Power Loop: At the start of a duel, this model may use the printed numerical Df, Wp, Ca, Sh, or Ml (ignoring suits) from another friendly model with Power Loop instead of its own."

 

It clearly states printed numerical Df, Wp etc. The Metal Gamin's printed numerical Df isn't 6, it's 5. The conditional modifies it to 6, unless the action magically changes the print on the card I'd say Power Loop can't use the modified Df of 6. Sure in the condition it states this model becomes Df 6 and yes technically that is printed on it's card but it's not it's actual stat. It's the benefit of a condition from Protection of Metal. Any attempt to say otherwise just seems douchy to me. 

 

The way I see this is it's intended to be the stats printed on the front of the models card even though it's not specifically stated within Power Loop. Another classic case of RAI vs. RAW. Anybody who tried to pull this on me is clearly trying to make use of ambiguous rules and exploit a technicallity for an advantage and isn't worth playing in the first place. I have no time or patience for war gamers like that. Besides, there are plenty of other Df 6 models available to Hoffman so this sort of rules lawyering really isn't an excuse. 

[zFiend]

Well said MD.