I'm trying to be patient, I really am...

[Ramath]

I'm finding this game harder and harder to get into...  It's beyond frustrating.  At every turn, it seems like I find yet another wall preventing me from getting into this game.

 

1) Hey, look, Colette looks neat!  

Just kidding, she's not even updated yet.  Guess you'll have to pick one of the few master that actually has updated rules/minis.

 

2) Fine...  The Viktorias look pretty cool, I'll pick up them.  

No, no you won't.  The have been recalled and no one is selling them.  Also, there's no word as to when they are going to be reprinted.

 

3) /facepalm...   Okay, how about Kira?  She's available, right?  New rules, new minis, in stock.  Anything I should know, about this one?  

Yup.  She's the most expensive box with the most minimal amount of hired units.  You'll need to buy a lot more models just to fill out your playable crew.  

/sigh...  okay, I can manage that.  She can take Chiaki, I'll add her!  

Sure, I'll just add Master Yan Lo's starter box to your cart....

Wait, what?  I don't want Yan Lo's starter box, I want Kirai.  Why are you adding him to the list?

You can't buy models available to her unless you buy an entire box set of another master.  Sorry, but you can't use Chiaki, a legal model to run, unless you spend $35 to throw away the other models.

/eye-twitch... f.i.n.e.  I'll take Bete Noire.  

......

What?  Why are you looking at me like that?

You're not going to tell me I can't?

/blank look

Huh...  Okay, then I'd also like to get the Valedictorian.

Sure, I'll just add the University of Transmortis to your cart...

 

Seriously...  I've never seen a game be this hard to get into!  Am I the only one seeing the problems here?

[zFiend]

You certainly are not and you bring valid points.

[Myyrä]

Colette's rules have been updated though. Finding the minis is just close to impossible. Also Nathan or someone said that the Viktorias should be in stores after couple weeks. Since that was over a week ago, I would imagine they should be available quite soon.

I have nothing to say in defense of Kirai though.

[MasterDisaster]

It can be a tad frustrating to begin with but the bonus is that Kirai's Onryo work well with Yan Lo. Additionally Toshiro and Izamu who are traditionally Yan Lo's crew work very well with Kirai as well. I can certainly see where you are coming from. You can find yourself buying lots of models to get going. Kirai's box isn't really a beginner friendly box set. There are others in this boat such as Leveticus and Dreamer though. 

 

I've just started a beginner league at my club and many of the members found themselves buying tonnes of models because they all looked so cool or they work well together or they just went crazy for the plastic crack. I've suddenly found myself getting all sorts of comments about me breaking everybodies bank accounts or bringing people to the brink of bankruptcy because some of the guys went mad and bought a load of stuff. Not my fault they went all out but it seems the be the general consensus that I'm to blame for bringing such a fun game to their attention.

 

Also in regards to your 2nd point the Viks should be back in stock in a few weeks time. There was a thread about this a few days ago and the Wyrd guys mentioned the problem appears to have been fixed and the Viks should be back soon-ish. 

[Bengt]

Nathan talks about the Viks (and Lady J) restock here: http://wyrd-games.net/community/topic/106092-hired-swords-restock/

[Dirial]

You have to remember that the game is in the middle of not only an edition change but also the end of the pewter era and the begin of the plastic age. It's not the best time to get into the game, agreed. Still, I heard getting into Warhammer is way more expensive...

[MasterDisaster]

 Still, I heard getting into Warhammer is way more expensive...

 

These days getting into Warhammer or 40k is impossible unless you've won the lottery or have a 6 figure salary! 

[Kogan Style]

Also you are playing Ressurectionist, which is traditionally the most expensive faction as we can hire the most models. So we need the most model variety. That said, there is a sliding scale of summoning so not all of the masters need all of the toys.

I'd say Nicodem/Kirai would be the most expensive, with Seamus being the cheapest.

 

[Ramath]

I'm not worried about money.  At least, not on a reasonable level.  I'm okay with picking up a couple extra blisters.  

 

I'm talking, almost entirely, about model availability.  

 

-I can't any extra Seishin for Kirai without buying a whole second box.

-I can't get Chiaki without buying Yan Lo's box.

-I can't get the Valedictorian without getting The University of Transmoritis.

 

 

And the list goes on...

 

Every bit of advice I was given when starting this game was "pick the models you like the looks of!"

 

That is so far off base it's almost comical.  I've given up on what I like the looks of.  I'm now simply trying to find models I can put on the damn table.

 

EDIT:

 

Also you are playing Ressurectionist...

 

Not by choice.  She's actually third down on my list.  But, she's what I'm starting with, because...

/drum roll

The other two are not available.

[zFiend]

I really get where you are coming from. I have a masters standing in shelf because I can't find models for them to field them at a reasonable level.

What makes things worse is that the open beta brings even more queue for models. So this transition.. Keeps on for years to come if this pace of releases keeps on.

[Dirial]

That's not entirely fair. If money isn't a concern, what stops you from buying Yan Lo?

 

I agree that some models haven't made the transition to plastic and are thus hard to come by, but the Viks will be in store again shortly. As said, it's a transition phase. Putting something on the table isn't hard. Getting exactly what you want now is hard. That's true, and regrettable, but I'm no fan of hyperbole.

[Ramath]

That's not entirely fair. If money isn't a concern, what stops you from buying Yan Lo?

 

I agree that some models haven't made the transition to plastic and are thus hard to come by, but the Viks will be in store again shortly. As said, it's a transition phase. Putting something on the table isn't hard. Getting exactly what you want now is hard. That's true, and regrettable, but I'm no fan of hyperbole.

Locking unit options behind entire box set is far from fair.

 

I also said money isn't a concern "with in reasonable level."  Buying an extra blister is very different than buying an entire crew box for one model.

[Dirial]

Locking unit options behind entire box set is far from fair.

 

I also said money isn't a concern "with in reasonable level."  Buying an extra blister is very different than buying an entire crew box for one model.

 

Granted. The box set is still cheap compared to other war games.

 

Also, I see your points and don't want to belittle them. I just want to point out, that 1) this is a transition phase and 2) not every crew is so hard to get into. I've had no problem to make my Guild playable in the last year, even if I still miss my fair share of models.

[rb_man]

The biggest issue is how they purged all the old metals on Black Friday (Web Stores and eBay being the main place you can get them now.). It also does not help how they decided to try to reduce their overall catalog to make them look better to stock. I think the Bigger issue you are having is you are looking for masters not factions. If I was someone telling you play this game I would have been like find a faction you like. Do to the way the game is played and how list building works it is better to have a flushed out faction over a few masters her and there. Well that is how I think anyway.

 

Also if you look on A Wyrd Place or eBay or battertown people are always looking to split up box sets.

[mythicFOX]

<MOD HAT>

 

Removed a post.  

 

You're all free to disagree so long as you're polite to each other.

 

</MOD HAT>

[bandages]

I really feel Wyrd and the community would benefit from a release schedule.

The schedule needs to be;

A - consistent, i.e we get an update each week. Preview Monday goes somewhat toward this but, if you take the GW site for example they have an excellent previewing system, there is a lot of room for improvement. The monthly updates are not consistent and often don’t fall on the same day of the month.

 

B - Long term release overview, I feel that the community is a lot more mature than other Wargaming ones. We can deal with it if Wyrd said, ‘right here are the predicted releases for the next 6 months. Please beware that these are subject to change.’ It would allow players the opportunity to plan their spending; ‘Oh right, X won’t be coming out for 6 months so I’ll get crew Y instead this month to compliment this other crew I have.’ At the moment, anyone buying the old metal crews (Collodi, Collette, etc) are gambling that the new plastic ones won’t be out for a while.

 

C - Keep us updated with any issues; If there is a manufacturing problem, a scaling issue, the sprue is over engineered, etc.  As an adult I can deal with someone saying, ‘Apologies, we thought X would be ready by this month but this issue has set us back 3 months.’ Whatever, these things happen, but being left in the dark about the releases means that, I personally, am unable to have confidence in what to purchase next.

 

Information is key. Just let us know. 

[Ausplosions]

This thread  is not aligned  with my views. 

 

Respectfully, forum user. 

[Insidiously Mad]

If models being inaccessible outside of Master boxes is a deal breaker for you, I wouldn't bother playing Malifaux. This is clearly a design choice by Wyrd to make it easier on game stores to stock product without overwhelming the stores. They've stated that this is a strategic choice they've made and it is unlikely to change any time soon, especially with all the other models to come out. Malifaux is a game undergoing a ton of change at the moment and it is probably a couple years from being at the point where model accessibility is at the level that it is in more established games. This is just reality. If it bothers you that much, don't play. I don't mean to be rude, but we see these posts all the time and I don't think this transition period that people mention is ending any time soon so it's just a reality of playing the game.

 

As to the release schedule, I believe they stopped announcing in advance after people were furious whenever things didn't come out on time or ended up falling into an abyss (Brewmaster). I understand why they did this, and although I would obviously love to know what is coming out in advance, I understand that they probably don't want to announce things until they have received them as they have had lots of production issues in the past.  

[Grantt]

It's a very difficult industry, dominated by one giant with another smashing into the fray. Companies like Wyrd probably do the best they can to keep running and operating while satisfying the fans. The way I see it, there are arguments on both sides. 

 

Let's start with the consumers. They're the primary financial support of a company, so they should be kept satisfied by that company's operation. A successful company treats its customers well, makes sure they're happy and maintains a positive relationship. Good consumers maintain a steady stream of purchases and supply a company with constructive criticism. Bad consumers develop a sense of entitlement and expect companies to over-support without reasonable means. To cite an example, a customer complains and blames a company for a lack of product they wish to purchase, even if the lack of that stock is out of the company's control. Relating it to this situation, the OP has suffered disappointment in not being able to get hold of the product he wants. If we assume, in this section, that the error lies with the consumer, then we can see this as the OP being impatient and having expectations too high to manage successfully. In response to his issues, it could be argued that the only thing stopping him playing with his Crew of choice is his decision to only play with the newly released models. There are rules released for them and a general consensus that proxied models are accepted, even in tournaments, for unavailable miniatures. Wyrd is solving the issues he states; releasing new models and updating out of stock product, but not at the speed or rate he wishes. His statement could be seen as exaggerated; it is unfortunate that he has chosen crews that are unavailable as his initial purchases, but there is a wealth of other product for him to choose from, or a simple matter of demonstrating patience. 

 

That's one side. 

 

On the other hand, we should also look at the company. Any business lives or dies in the satisfaction of its customer base; people are spending their money - the essence of measurement in our civilisation - on the product the company provides, and if the company fails to satisfy the consumer, that money disappears. Good companies manage their customer expectations, provide a good value for their product and continue with clear communication with their customer base. Bad companies have skewed expectations of what their customer base ants, fails to communicate with them successfully and does not provide a valued product. As an example we could point to a company suffering a lack of a particular, possibly popular product, due to a manufacturing or design problem, who fails to communicate this issue to their customer base. Initial silence on a matter is expected; you do not admit to small mistakes (because you wouldn't have time to do anything else) and you do not apologise in business unless you've genuinely wronged someone, but an explanation and some suggestion of potential resolution will at least keep the customer aware of a situation. In this, Wyrd has suffered a manufacturing issue with the Hired Swords box set, and the information released from them has been issued, though possibly late (I don't know, I haven't kept up to date with this). We can also address the release schedule as another potential problem, with Wyrd releasing beta rules for new models when even Wave 1 models have yet to be released, but it would then be pertinent to mention that this practice is endemic within the entire industry. That being said, Wyrd would most definitely benefit from maintaining a reliable release schedule (and for the record, I think that they are one of the best out there). In this instance, the lack of the Colette crew is understandable as it is "expected", and the lack of the Hired Swords is unfortunate, but mitigated by the steps Wyrd have taken to resolve the issue. However, the packaging of products is something that should be considered; a crucial model for numerous other crews should probably not be packaged only within one expensive crew box (as an example, I shall be purchasing the Ironsides Crew box, but only for the Captain and those Oxford Mages). That Chiaki is not available as a separate product is a little irksome. Once again, this is an issue across the industry (how many of us are buying Scum and Villainy ships for Accuracy Corrector upgrade for our TIE Advances?), so perhaps our expectations as consumers is allowing it. 

 

I'm not recommending anything or trying to sway opinion; I just like to make sure both parts of the argument are clear. My two cents!

[Dirial]

As to the release schedule, I believe they stopped announcing in advance after people were furious whenever things didn't come out on time or ended up falling into an abyss (Brewmaster). I understand why they did this, and although I would obviously love to know what is coming out in advance, I understand that they probably don't want to announce things until they have received them as they have had lots of production issues in the past.  

 

Agreed. Although the community is now mostly lighthearted about it on the forums, I still hear the complaints.

[Adran]

B - Long term release overview, I feel that the community is a lot more mature than other Wargaming ones. We can deal with it if Wyrd said, ‘right here are the predicted releases for the next 6 months. Please beware that these are subject to change.’ It would allow players the opportunity to plan their spending; ‘Oh right, X won’t be coming out for 6 months so I’ll get crew Y instead this month to compliment this other crew I have.’ At the moment, anyone buying the old metal crews (Collodi, Collette, etc) are gambling that the new plastic ones won’t be out for a while.

 

 

Information is key. Just let us know. 

 

I really wish I could agree with this, but past experience here suggests the community has enough vocal people who can't cope with predicted releases not happening.

 

In answer to the original poster, yes the Malifaux range is not all out. Its the Wyrd release model. They do rules once a year, and then spend that year releasing the models for those rules. I've been playign for 5 years, and I there have probaly been only a couple of months in those 5 years where you could say the entire range was availible. (Things are made worst at the moment because they are re-releasing eevry single model so its more than a years worth comign out in each rule book.)

It does have the advantage that the player has a pretty good idea of what is beign released over the year. They also only have to buy 1 rules book a year, which will let them know the rules for everything out there. But I've had GW gaems where I've had to wait longer for models, and the need to buy multiple rule books in a year, or several otehr systems where I can't get everythign I want, so I thought it was the norm.

 

They have also chosen to only include some models in crew boxes. this has been an issue for the last 2 1/2  years (Since the first release of Ten thunders), but makes the most financial sense for wyrd. They have tried the model that has every single model availble seprately and the model that has some models only availbe in crew boxes, and I would guess that stores and distrubutors find the second option better.

The same happens in just about any collectable game that exists.

 

Regards to the Kirai box, I don't think there is a satisfactory answer. She is a crew that typically makes use of lots of cheap/free models. Surely its better that she gets those in her starter box, than a legal crew, that you then need to go and buy all the models that are vital to play her.

 

Sorry for the issues, and I hope you can find a crew that you like with not too many suplus models, as I think its a great game and worth the effort to get into.

[Poko]

 

I just want to point out, that 1) this is a transition phase

That by now has been going on for 2 years. It's shaping up to be less of a phase and more of a geologic period at this point.

 

I understand Wyrd had their reasons, but equally I can understand how irritating it can be to wait for a crew that just ain't happening.

[Cunning]

If you only want Chiaki and never want Yan Lo or Ashigaru you could either buy the box and sell off the rest or try and find someone selling Chiaki.

Not ideal but certainly worth considering.

[Dirial]

That by now has been going on for 2 years. It's shaping up to be less of a phase and more of a geologic period at this point.

 

I understand Wyrd had their reasons, but equally I can understand how irritating it can be to wait for a crew that just ain't happening.

 

I never said that's it's a short phase. I also don't think that it would be a realistic expectation. Yes, that is quite frustrating. As said, I want my Austringers and Hounds, too.

[MasterDisaster]

I never said that's it's a short phase. I also don't think that it would be a realistic expectation. Yes, that is quite frustrating. As said, I want my Austringers and Hounds, too.

 

Don't forget the Peacekeeper! Damn I want one of those!