How much does the game change at 35ss?

[Whut]

So my local area is getting around to finally running a tournament soon but I heard it will be at the 35ss level to not scare away people from needing more models to play. How much does the game change at this level? I heard that it gets slightly unbalanced. What models should I buy/prepare?

I figure I can't go wrong with Ramos, and with virtually anyone else, Mech Rider will be incredibly strong (although Im stuck when thinking of Raspy because I want snowstorm and mech rider and can't decide what to do.

I've heard around that many people in our area play Neverborn and Guild, if that helps formulate your answers

[Tigerstyle]

Anything that can summon can unbalance the game at 35SS.  Ramos is very strong at lower point levels (well at all point levels, but lower especially).

[admiralvorkraft]

It unbalances the game hugely in favor of summoning masters, or it can. It also makes certain schemes almost impossible - ALitS for one.

That being said, the game itself plays pretty much the same, put pressure on summoners and you'll still drain their hand, kill models early, play to the strategy and schemes. It's just your choices that really make a difference.

[Fetid Strumpet]

The game itself doesn't change, the relative value of some abilities changes at low SS levels, with Summoners being the most contentious issue. The lower the SS value of the game the more any individual model matters, which is why the ability to bring more in can get silly.

 

Though it could be also be said the combat monsters also become stronger, because there are less models to contain them, or targets for them to spread their attention to. Last edition summoning was much less reliable, and at Low SS values masters like Lady J and Misaki were pretty much almost untouchable in the low SS games I played.

 

To what degree your group will find any particular thing balanced or OP is going to be distinct to your group. If this is your first event and the majority of the players are new, I'd leave the rules exactly like they are in the book.

 

If you all have some experience you could discuss what house rules will make the experience more enjoyable to you. I personally don't think the balance is all that equalized by house rules limiting summoners in low SS games, as it just shifts what's the strongest from one group of models to another. However there are a lot of topics on this, and lots of discussion on various house rules to balance low SS games to make them more enjoyable that can be found through some Search Fu on the boards.

[Whut]

That combat monsters comment is what I am thinking about. Is Ramos's greater effect on the game better than say... Perdita? Honestly I don't think so. I'm not sure what to do, really.

 

EDIT: Actually its not that I don't know what to do, I'll just play the way I usually do, its actually not that hard xD I just don't know what to expect

[Adran]

Dropping to 35 from 50 and you see a huge drop in AP. You need your crews to perform optimally, and have no real chance to build in Redundancy.

Games like Reconnotre can be a real struggle as you don't have the bodies to spare to hold quarters.

You also have fewer activations, which means that there is less pressure on your hand. This really helps crews with harsher hand requirements (like summoning) where as models like Perdita work almost as well with 0 cards in hand as she does with 6 cards in hand.

 

Its much harder to find the spare AP to drop schemes

[Whut]

Hey guys my community seems to be sticking to 35 stones for a while (BOO!) but while they do, I might as well try to increase my chances of winning.

 

What in the heck does anyone do against Sonnia? Besides taking 2 raptors and a Cerberus/Myranda every game one plays against Guild to kill her?

Would Howard take priority compared to Joss? With less enemy threats and each kill being that much more important, I feel like Howard the hasty killer will be able to put much more pressure on the enemy than Joss the immovable brick. (Except for Joss with Warding Runes against Ressers )

Is the Brass Arachnid worth it? Spending 4 stones on a peon seems bad but two Howard Activations is disgusting.

Is Mech Rider better or worse at 35? On the one hand, she summons more models and is a tough cookie herself, though not too offensively powerful. On the other, taking up 12 points in the list means less points for other options (especially after the mandatory 10-12 point beatstick I include in every list ever). I feel like it may slow down your early game but give a large power boost to the late game.

 

What other masters get a power boost at this level? Which suffer?

[Dirial]

Generally, everything that summons gets better, as the impact of the summoned models is higher. Taking big, beefy models has the downside that you have all the eggs in one basket, though.

[zFiend]

Summoning models are really good at lower point games. Also brass Arachnid is usually worth it. Reactivating Langston is a horrible thing.

[Adran]

If Anything, I would have said Sonnia was one of the masters that was penalised by a smaller game.

her attacks don't do huge damage, its the blasts that make them deadly. If you crew is smaller and you spread out, she only gets to hit 1 model per attack.

 

Brass arachind is pretty solid, especially in smaller games. It gives you some extra activation control, and lets you get double duty out of your more expensive models. (or with the right hand, 2 of your more powerful models)

Probably very few masters are made weaker at 35 (Possibly sonnia and rasputina as blasts are weaker, and maybe an extreme buffing master like Lucius) but Masters which have a high hand requirment are stronger, as there is much less competition for the cards.

Summoners hence gain twice. The crew is less likely to need that 10+ to function, and an extra model is a higher percenatge of your AP.

 

But overall, the good players will still do best.

[Breng77]

Play Ramos, summon spiders, profit. I really don't understand the push to keep games smaller for long periods I time. The difference in expense between 35 and 50 is small, and the game functions much better at 50ss

As for models like Howard I think he is too expensive at 35 ss. As he would be a full third of the crew an if killed is a huge loss.

Essentially 35 is great for ressers, Ramos, and Dreamer...summonera rule.

[rythos42]

I think it's not just expense. I like 35ss because it's a quicker game as well, so I'm more likely to be able to get a second "full" game in, even if both games are semi-stunted or not balanced, or whatever. I also occasionally like it because it forces you to make hard choices with crew selection - you can't have all your toys, so the toys you do bring had better be perfect for the job.

 

Also, oddly, I designed a scenario for Walpurgis last year that actually played much better at 35ss. I played it a bunch at 50, and after we'd mucked out the big problems with it, we tried 35 (see above: not enough time in a day ) and it was much smoother. Fewer models meant that the tension to get points was higher, which made it more enjoyable. Obviously not the case with the Big 5, but it's a thing.

[Breng77]

See I feel like game length between 35 and 59 is not that big a difference, I also feel like you end up making tough choices even at 50ss. I find that it makes games less interactive because you can play around your opponent. Unless they are summoning, at which point the game is not short. Sure you can still have some fun...but as a standard play level for a group I feel it is less functional.

[Whut]

What about in a scenario with Reckoning/MakeThem Suffer, or both? Imagine some big beasty henchman charging a spider and earning 2 VP off of that kill (with another reckoning kill elsewhere)

[Breng77]

Sure if those pop up it helps a bit, but I find both of those not all that much fun at low ss due to low model count of most crews.