Can you summon/unbury multiple models from a single model (not corpse counter)

[jonahmaul]

Had a discussion that came up today (though didn't actually come to fruition) and wonder whether you can summon/unbury multiple models from a single other model?  In this example it was possible that McMourning would kill a living model with the Abra Cadabra trigger to turn it into a Flesh Construct and I was also thinking that I might unbury my Bete Noir from the same model.  Both of the abilities/triggers state that you place the model in base contact with the killed model and then no corpse counters are generated.  Is this allowed or is there something in the rules that specifically prohibits this?

[zFiend]

Yeah you can do that. 

[Dirial]

There is no general rule that prohibits it, so it would have to be a special rule of a single model or effect. None come to my mind at the moment, but that doesn't mean they don't exist.

[jonahmaul]

Nasty shenanigans!

[mythicFOX]

<MOD HAT>

 

I've killed a post (and the reply to it) above.

 

By all means discuss your interpretations of rules, but you need to explain your positions when you're asserting something.  See Dirial's first post in this thread as a good example of how to answer rules questions.

 

In other words don't just make up stuff and claim it might be a rule.

 

</MOD HAT>

[Mister Shine]

Mythicfox is secretly a hamster, probably true.

[mythicFOX]

I don't think Ratty would trust a hamster to be a mod.

 

Maybe I'm secretly Ratty. Maybe we're all secretly Ratty and this whole forum is simply him talking to himself.

[jonahmaul]

 

<MOD HAT>

 

I've killed a post (and the reply to it) above.

 

By all means discuss your interpretations of rules, but you need to explain your positions when you're asserting something.  See Dirial's first post in this thread as a good example of how to answer rules questions.

 

In other words don't just make up stuff and claim it might be a rule.

 

</MOD HAT>

 

I'm confused!  What post has been killed?!  Is this interpretation incorrect then?!

[Dirial]

I'm confused!  What post has been killed?!  Is this interpretation incorrect then?!

 

No, it's correct. Someone remarked that one could play it differently, but without backing it up. I denied it (and I seriously hope I didn't overstep any rules in that). In the end, it would just have added confusion, and I think MythicFox was right in removing it.

[mythicFOX]

What Dirial said.  I just removed a comment likely to lead this discussion off on wild goose chase.  

 

For the record I'm a mod, so I can't give an official line on how the rules of the game should be played.  IMHO however I think it's perfectly fine to use the death of one model to bring two into play.

[jonahmaul]

Ah ok, so there was posts there that were then removed!  My friend and I agreed that it could happen too so glad our interpretation seems to be shared.

[rgarbonzo]

Oooh can bring Killjoy out as well...hahahahahahahahahaha!!!!

One model, Killjoy, Bete and a Flesh construct... that is just nasty...

[Darryl.Lademan]

Sorry to be a devils advocate but I'm not sure this is correct, doesn't one action have to be completely resolved I.e when the model is killed place a flesh construct in base contact then remove the dead model, therefore, no more dead model for bette/killjoy

[Ausplosions]

Bete comes out as it is removed from play.

[AverageBoss]

I remember when this was a debate in 1.5 (I think Kirai was the main offender). I think 1 had a specific rule that prevented it, but 1.5 removed it and thus it was allowed as long as the conditions for the bringing in of multiple models were met.

 

I see it as very similar in 2E. There is no rule specifically saying that you cannot. As long as all prerequisites for a summon/unbury are met, they should be able to take place. If Kirai uses mark the soul on an enemy model, then Datsue Ba kills it with Weigh Sins while Bete is buried and a model with Spirit Beacon is nearby, then 4 models should pop up in its place.

 

As per Mark the Soul it creates a condition that summons a Gaki should the holder dies, which he has.

As per Weigh Sins a Gaki or Onryo is summoned if the target model dies, which he has.

As per Spirit Beacon, a card can be discarded to summon a Seishin if a nearby model dies, which has happened.

As per Bete, she becomes unburied when a model model is removed from play, as has happened.

 

None of these rules conflict with each other, the only possible issue that I can see would be placement if the area is already packed with models..

[mythicFOX]

Sorry to be a devils advocate but I'm not sure this is correct, doesn't one action have to be completely resolved I.e when the model is killed place a flesh construct in base contact then remove the dead model, therefore, no more dead model for bette/killjoy

 

 

The logical extension of that argument would be you could never place Bete because the action that kills the model would always have removed the model from play before she could be placed.   The whole point of Bete's ability saying before the model is removed is so it instructs you when to perform her ability, ie before the model is removed.

[Myyrä]

Sorry to be a devils advocate but I'm not sure this is correct, doesn't one action have to be completely resolved I.e when the model is killed place a flesh construct in base contact then remove the dead model, therefore, no more dead model for bette/killjoy

This is wrong, because abra cadaver doesn't actually tell you to remove the model from play. It just says that the flesh construct is placed before removing the model and that the model drops no corpse marker. It doesn't in any way prevent doing anything else before removing model from play.

[Darryl.Lademan]

Thanks for clarifying :-)

[jonahmaul]

I repeat my earlier statement of nasty shenanigans then! Muhahaha  (oh wait, that's something else....)

[Snakeshit]

If you playing with Zoradia you could bring a Bad Ju Ju and Kill Joy which could be fun.

[PraetorDragoon]

In theory, in a Hamelin vs McMourning matchup, if something dies of poison and is blighted, it can spawn Killjoy and a Rat for Hamelin and a Canine for McMounring. Good luck positioning them though.

[Thaarup]

You could use a Witchling Handle in a Sonnia Crew, to bring out 2x Witchlings as well  

[HowNot2Wargame]

Tag team!

[HowNot2Wargame]

Oh my life never realised the double stalker bit with a ha dler and then ressurection.... That is actually bonkers.

[mythicFOX]

<MODHAT>

 

I have removed a post in clear breach of several of the 'how to answer rules questions' guidelines;

 

http://wyrd-games.net/community/topic/103095-how-to-answer-rules-questions-please-read/

 

I've also removed a couple of responses to that post. There was nothing wrong with those responses, they simply didn't make sense in the absence of the post they were responding to.

 

</MODHAT>

[Pierowmaniac]

Also note that their is nothing stopping your opponent from also bringing out Bette as well!

 

Played a game the other night with Bette on each side, which was very entertaining in deed