ShieldBreakers Video Battle Report Dreamer vs Viktorias 50ss

[IamMoi]

Greetings!

Here we have a brand new shiny video battle report featuring the Overlord's Dreamer crew facing off against MaliDave's Viktorias and co in a battle of Reckoning at 50ss

We hope you enjoy! Please leave any and all comments and critiques below

[Ikvar]

Much better with the 50SS, and I love to see some Dreamer action

 

Two quick things though:

 

1. did you remember the terrifying check on the first teddy that died?

2. did you remember to give coppelius eyeballs when he charged Victoria of Ash?

- because even though he did not succeed with his attacks, he still gets eyeballs as it simply requires the target to be an enemy, nothing else.

 

Other then that I think the guy playing Dreamer was a bit to quick to get his crew up the board, and this coupled with the fact that there were very little terrain, meant that he were playing very much in Victorias favor, as she simply wants to kill things while the Dreamer (IMO) wants a bit more time to summon and setup his crew with more web markers etc. Even though I always play LCB Dreamer, I always try to summon at least 3Alps to tarpit and get my 3DD for WP debuffs.

 

And why all the Twist Reality attacks?

- unless you can paralyze her, or you want your nightmare models closer with the Feed on Dreams ability, I would personally never use it. If it is simply in an attempt to get LCB out, I would either cast Surrounded by Nightmares if I had a lot of models around, or in your case I would simply summon more stuff.

 

And as a last note, I would personally favor On Dreaming Wings for Coppelius, as he always wants to run around- flanking, doing schemes and picking out easy targets, while Widow Weaver generally wants to hang out in the back and chill.

 

Other then that I really love you guys videos, it is definitely some of the best batreps around, and I love you guys long time for doings lots of Neverborn stuff ^^

[Bengt]

 

2. did you remember to give coppelius eyeballs when he charged Victoria of Ash?

- because even though he did not succeed with his attacks, he still gets eyeballs as it simply requires the target to be an enemy, nothing else.

If you fail the attack none of the action text happens unless it explicitly say it works if you failed, e.g. the push from Mei Feng's Jackhammer Kick.

[Ikvar]

It simply States that if the target of the action is an enemy, he gets an eyeball. It says nothing about "after succeeding" or "after damaging " like other abilities says.

[Ikvar]

Double post from phone >>

[Bengt]

The basic rules for actions is that nothing happens unless you win the duel. That means all the text after header. An action can break this if it is explicit, like Jackhammer Kick. You can also declare triggers that says "after failing" or "after resolving".

[Ikvar]

It seems odd if that is the case, as this is the only action I have seen where it does not state the conditions from which he can do it, other then the target simply needs to be an enemy.

In all other actions I have seen, it either States after succeeding, after damaging or after failing and resolving as you stated yourself.

So if you are right, then this ability really needs to be rewritten, as what I say was the quick conclusion from my group when I started using it.

[DocSchlock]

It doesn't need to be rewritten at all.

An Action's effects only resolve if the duel succeeds or the timing is explicitly stated to be different.

Mei Feng's Jackhammer Kick explicitly states that her effect occurs regardless of success. Coppelius' would need to have the same line to give him eyeballs regardless of whether he won the duel or not.

Attack Actions, pg 38 small book -- "If the Attacker wins the duel... the effects of the Attack are resolved."

The current wording on Coppelius can only be used if he won the attack duel. Then, if the target was an enemy, give him an eyeball.


TL;DR You don't do ANYTHING in the Action past the colon unless you succeed or the Action explicitly states otherwise.

 

[Ikvar]

But seeing as it does not say it explicitly, is it then after succeeding, or after damaging?

I am also still a bit confused why it explicitly state the conditions on every other model, except this one.

I am not saying you are wrong, I understand your reasoning... But it still seems very odd to me...

[Bengt]

If it doesn't give a timing it is as soon as possible.

 

For more examples of two sentence action effects:

Metal Gamin | Fierce Head Butt

Barbaros | Macuahutti

[TheOverlord]

Thanks for all the responses, and I'm glad our videos can inspire rules discussions and educate our fellow players, that is our goal after all!  Ikvar the terrifying test were remembered Malidave simply passed them all.  As for my tactics with the scenario being reconking I wanted to minimize easy targets for the Viks to kill thus the excessive use of twist reality.  Most of my early game was to set up assasination on Ash as it was my hidden scheme and I opted for agression hoping that 4 attacks with + twist to attack and damage would put a hurting on her from the teddy.  Malidave's control hand and SS cache told me otherwise.  And finally my reason for Widow weaver having the dreaming wings isnt for her but because she is usually in range of the Teddies thus granting them flight.  I use this to get the teddies where ever I need them and make the weaver a little bit faster as she is the slowers member of my crew....and flying teddy bears!  Again thanks for watching!

[Lucidicide]

But seeing as it does not say it explicitly, is it then after succeeding, or after damaging?

I am also still a bit confused why it explicitly state the conditions on every other model, except this one.

I am not saying you are wrong, I understand your reasoning... But it still seems very odd to me...

 

You're thinking of triggers. Triggers have the wording "after..." which lets you know when/how they function. This language is not present in attack text itself generally.

[DocSchlock]

Coppelius' eyeball gain would apply in sentence order. Apply the damage, then gain an eyeball as long as the target of the Action was an enemy.

But this is not "after damaging / succeeding / resolving," it's simply while applying the Action's effects. It's not a Trigger -- it doesn't follow trigger timing.

Declare Action
Spend AP
Duel
If successful, apply applicable effects of the Action.
"After" Triggers go off now.
 

[Ikvar]

Well it seems like you all agree, and when even the new staff member speaks for your side, I guess I must admit defeat

 

But in any case, I am always happy to learn new things even if it means I was wrong, so thanks for teaching me this

[Tuttleboy]

To bad the star player was the deck. I think a big lesson most will take from this games is that when you see Vanessa in a sisters crew, she must be neutralized. It's one thing I've learned in game games against the Viks. Kill her or get her off the center line. Interesting to see another player running Dreamer. I run my Chompy smash crew a bit different in construction and play. Mostly I like to start with at least 2 Daydreams on the board to speed the crew up on turn 1 and only run 1 Teddy. But I can see that 2 would be a good option against many crews. I try to use Widow Weaver's webs and Daydreams to kill the enemy crew's Wp and inflict Horror duels, either making them burn cards to not get Paralyzed or robbing them of AP by paralyzing.

Thanks for the batrep and showing me a different way to run Dreamer.

[cdhay]

Great batrep so thanks for sharing. Love the new format. 1 point I picked up on though while watching was that I didn't think Dreamer can cast empty night on himself as he is neither a minion or nightmare. Think you did it to heal for stitches to heal dreamer 2 dm at around 16m 15s? Let me know if I am wrong as if so I have been playing that wrong

[The Godlyness]

He is not a minion or a nightmare so no he can't use it on himself.

[Drool_bucket]

Hey guys,

 

finally got around to watching it... love the new format.  If you could figure out a workable angle for the camera, it might be easier to tell what is what... that said, with the narration it is probably overkill.  I would still love crew shots when you go over the beginning of the game!

 

To the game itself... it devolved into a mash up in the middle pretty quick, what happened to MaliDave's "I'm gonna use some of the Viks shooting?" 

 

I do find the Viks very shooty when you go outside of their starter box.  In this game we saw Hans and Vanessa, both great examples, but I've moved away from Ronin in favor of Convict Gunslingers and Friekorps Trappers.   Though against The Dreamer shooting can be particular ineffective because of the ease of Healing the crew has.

 

Couple observations that I can't be sure how they were played...

- Vanessa's heal is a (2) action.  I think turns 3 and 4 she first healed and then attacked and then the next time healed while slow.  Again, I wasn't there but her heal, while very powerful, does eat up her AP.  (a good reason for the SoC or an Oathkeeper)

- DId you put Slow on the Dreamer when LCB got killed?

 

Overall, a nice watch, still love the before and after commentary, you guys should podcast a bit, I'd listen to you two ramble on about this game, no problem!

[knghtpiper]

Great video report.  As petty as this may sound, you two are easy to understand and I do not have to have the volume turned all the way up to hear you which is great.  I like the diverse range of crews so far.    

[Verdeloth]

Awsome report

[SevenSins]

Very nice report, just the right blend of details and visuals, loved it!