Advise needed for facing Rasputina

[asrian]

I will be facing a friend's Raspy crew (basic box set) vs my Pandora crew (box set + I own Teddy, Lilitu, 2 Insidious Madnesses, Terror Tots, Doppleganger, Primordial Magic, Tannen, and Graves)

Typically I play a Voices/Paralyze style of play but as Raspy and crew are naturally immune to Horror and Paralyze I was curious what other Pandora players did when facing off against her?

We'll probably be playing a 35SS to 40SS game (not sure what other models beyond box set he owns).

My initial plan though is focus on schemes that I can accomplish without worrying about killing/interacting with his crew and just try to minimize my losses, but as I haven't faced her before (and don't know the schemes/strat yet) I'm looking for just general advise.

Thanks

[namtar]

It's a hard question.

We played 2 games raspi vs pandora. After it we agreed to replace pandora with lilith, in this case i have much more chance.

 

Focus on the following things:

Rasputina has counter spell (you lose every built in suit).

She can cast through any forzen hart modell within 10".

Rasputina has sub zero, it ends your activation if she has a tome in the def total and you made dmg through a Ml attack.

 

How to win?

Try to choose schemes where you need to put markers far away from the most important point in the strategy.

Rasputina is really slow, Wk 3, Cg -.

Use lure and push, if the distance between raspi and her models is higher than 10" she can't use ice mirror/shattered mirror.

Don't stand next to each other, or base contact with any of her minions. Blast dmg, paralyze in btb.

Her every cast is projectile, so try to engage as much model as you can.

If you can engage rasputina she can't do too much thing, and disengage with Df 4 is not so easy

Maybe you should forget sorrows, poltergeist, insidous madness, Ca actions make full dmg on incorporeal models.

The pounce of kade can be a good thing against sub zero.

Heavy hitters also works well.

Kill minions ASAP.

 

And be ready to loose, it will be a hard game for you what is not so enjoyable.

 

BTW GL And if have any question feel free to ask!

[asrian]

Yeah, I'd already planned on lures, and to eat her smaller minions one bite at a time to weaken her (about a mirror for pandora there to destroy sorrows to weaken her overall potential). Basically looking at it as a mental exercise.  

 

Ty for the info.

[rgarbonzo]

Gamin and the Golem are immune to Paralyze

[Dirial]

Be aware that only Ml attacks trigger Sub Zero: Pandora or Candy can pummel them with impunity.

 

Look out for Acolytes and kill them early. If you get the Acolytes and have some Lures you can keep enough of a distance that Raspy has to walk. Every AP she uses for something other than casting is a win.

 

Kade and Teddy can attack out of activation which is great against Raspy.

[heckler]

try fears given forms on pandora and/or candy to capitalize on the low defense of the ice crew. kade seems to be a good choice to me as you can reliably put out plenty of damage through the armor and pandy and candy have long engagement ranges. use mood swing to control his activation order and tie up frozen heart models so raspy can't ice mirror through them. i would try the box opens upgrade since you can remove immunities to horror duels or just skip the limited upgrade in general. sorrows will just die quickly so i'd skip them as well. teddy is a good choice since he can mangle any models in that crew and will likely take 2 damage from december's curse. he can also be placed in BtB contact with an enemy giving him great speed. combo that with kade's 2 action and he can move quickly if needed.

[Hateful Darkblack]

My advice: Don't get intimidated.

If you play like she'll beat you, you'll avoid bold moves, and lose the game from lack of VP.

[Viagrus]

The upgrade Fugue State gives Pandy a spell that makes the target insignificant. Primordial Magic also has that spell. Take them both and a Doppelganger (to mimic Primordial Magic's spell) and just hand out insignificant like candy on Halloween.

Consider a pounce trap. Have Kade and a tot next to each other and have Lilitu lure something into them. Not only do you get two pounces but Kade's attack gives a +2 to dg if the target is engaged with another model. Kade's minimum damage becomes 3 and if you get a crow in, the target is getting lobotomized :-) The terror tot should probably spend 2-3 turns VP hunting, then move in close to Kade.

[StuffedKiwi]

Some helpful advice in here. I'm playing a Reconnoiter game (50SS) against (probably) Rasputina this week. I can run either Lilith and Pandora, and from the above it sounds like a Lilith crew might be a better option. Any further advice on list-making, and/or how to play the game? Don't know schemes yet, we'll flip those on the night. My usual Reconnoiter line-up is something like Lilith, Nekima (w/True Mother), Shaman, Doppleganger, Lilitu (w/Grow), Primordial Magic and some Tots. If it's a less marker-focused scheme pool, maybe drop Lilitu and the 'Ganger for something heavier hitting, and switch the Magic for the Cherub.

All thoughts and suggestions appreciated, it will be my first game against a Rasputina crew. If, indeed, my opponent doesn't surprise me by taking a different master....

[asrian]

If it were me and Recon vs Arcanist I'd go for Lilith, Tots, and the rest to taste, non-grow list. I'd probably include Lilitu just to because of her 4" engagement and Lure ability to pull people into the 6" non-scoring zone or to pull them out of position in general. I'd pick up Beckon Malifaux, Living Blade, and Wicked Mistress for a second Lure. Doppleganger would be a good edition as well as Primordial. That's me and my playstyle though as I very much enjoy the guerrilla style tactics of Lilith.

Thinking about it, I'd probably run something like this overall:
 

Neverborn Crew - 50 - Scrap

 

Lilith -- 7 Pool

 +Beckon Malifaux [1]

 +Living Blade [2]

 +Wicked Mistress [1]

 

Primordial Magic [2]

Doppleganger [7]

Lilitu [7]

Terror Tot [4]

Terror Tot [4]

Waldgeist [6]

Waldgeist [6]

That leaves you with 10 SS to play around with for further customization. 

It gives you 3 potential Lure models (counting Doppelganger mimicking Lilitu). 3 severe terrain markers that can bog down the enemy, one of which blocks LoS (Waldgeist and Lilith). It gives you two hard targets (Waldgeist) who can help hold down your starting two areas for Recon, and two dedicated scheme runners (Tots) who can also be used as back up offense or numbers for schemes/strat. You also would have Primordial, who along with Lilith gives you the ability to draw another card per turn, can count as a scheme marker for scoring, and can potentially make an enemy model insignificant and keep them from scoring. 

If you felt you didn't want to use Lilith's lure, you could always drop Wicked Mistress and pick up On Wings of Darkness which would give her Flight and the ability to draw 3 cards instead of 2 when Soul Stoning after the Draw Phase, which would mean, with Lilith & Primordial's ability, you be able to Draw and Discard (for 1 SS a turn) 5 extra cards before the turn even started.

 

[Math Mathonwy]

Just as a general note, I don't think that the game is balanced if you know the Master you're going up against. Some Masters become, if not unplayable, then at least extremely disadvantaged if the opponent knows the Master in advance.

Now, I realize that in the real world this is often unavoidable (since a given player might own only one Master) but it's just something to bear in mind.

[zFiend]

Just as a general note, I don't think that the game is balanced if you know the Master you're going up against. Some Masters become, if not unplayable, then at least extremely disadvantaged if the opponent knows the Master in advance.

Now, I realize that in the real world this is often unavoidable (since a given player might own only one Master) but it's just something to bear in mind.

Off topic sure, but do you have an example of this?

We have been playing with Ezyryder a lot on Vassal with pre-posted lists. So it has been known from the get which master and even the exact crew composition and we have gotten extremely good and close games in.

[Fetid Strumpet]

I can't stress enough, NEVER end in base to base contact with one of her minions if it can possibly be helped.

[Math Mathonwy]

Off topic sure, but do you have an example of this?

We have been playing with Ezyryder a lot on Vassal with pre-posted lists. So it has been known from the get which master and even the exact crew composition and we have gotten extremely good and close games in.

I think that there's kinda four ways of going about it. 1) The official way (both players declare Factions but might end up fielding whoever Master and whatever crew), 2) declaring Masters and then choosing crews, 3) one player choosing a Master, then the other one choosing a Master and then building crews or, if I understood you correctly, 4) one player choosing Master and crew and then the other player doing the same.

And I think that these are in the order of balance with 1) being the most balanced and 4) being the least.

In Gencon they played so that you first declared your Master (simultaneously, I believe) and only then chose the crew. Some Masters are very synergistic with their particular crew so you will know what you will face while others can take really whatever.

If you are going against, say, Kirai, you will know to load up on casting attacks to bypass Incorporeal. If you're going against Molly, it might also mean lots of Incorporeal Spirits but it might also mean Horrors, so the choice of taking damaging Casting attacks isn't as clear-cut anymore.

If you're going against Outcasts, you might come up against anything really, but if you're going up against Hamelin, you'll know what to expect (most of the time) and, for example, take more blasts than you otherwise would. Or Vickies - better not take a force that needs to bunch up.

Or, to bring this back to the topic of the thread, if you know which Master you are facing but are allowed to choose your own Master, you will likely choose Lilith over Pandora to go against Rasputina.

[Patzer]

Off topic sure, but do you have an example of this?

We have been playing with Ezyryder a lot on Vassal with pre-posted lists. So it has been known from the get which master and even the exact crew composition and we have gotten extremely good and close games in.

"We"... what?! Most of the time we have done our list about the same time, and I think both of us are going by a sportsperson code about crew composition. Meaning that even if one have revealed before the I other, neither have gone all out power play against that list. I guess that is a real possibility in a competitive environment, but it is plain dickish to do that in causal play.

 

Some helpful advice in here. I'm playing a Reconnoiter game (50SS) against (probably) Rasputina this week. I can run either Lilith and Pandora, and from the above it sounds like a Lilith crew might be a better option. Any further advice on list-making, and/or how to play the game? Don't know schemes yet, we'll flip those on the night. My usual Reconnoiter line-up is something like Lilith, Nekima (w/True Mother), Shaman, Doppleganger, Lilitu (w/Grow), Primordial Magic and some Tots. If it's a less marker-focused scheme pool, maybe drop Lilitu and the 'Ganger for something heavier hitting, and switch the Magic for the Cherub.

All thoughts and suggestions appreciated, it will be my first game against a Rasputina crew. If, indeed, my opponent doesn't surprise me by taking a different master....

 

In reconnoiter, I would go with Lilith since it is the one strategy that Pandora doesn't have much benefit in. She can definitely do it, very well even, but Lilith is a better option. I tend to play Pandora as an individual very strong model in those cases, while fielding a crew that will work without her.

 

As for the Raspy vs Pandy match-up, a lot of conventional wisdom about Pandora is thrown out of the window, but it opens for some other options. I would go with Cry For Me, Fears Given Form, and Aether Connection (and fist full of Soulstones). Killing the Gamin would be priority. Then going after the bigger hitters, or maybe tie up Raspy in order to protect the crew. Pandora is speedy and can influence many parts of the board quickly. As someone said before, the Sub Zero defence will not work against Pandora. 

[StuffedKiwi]

Thanks for the great advice, everyone. In the end, my opponent didn't run Rasputina, which made me laugh at myself. But my Lilith crew worked just fine anyway. )