Maniacal_cackle

It doesn't specify a timing though. It leaves you to infer the timing (that you should probably do the replacement effect before you drop a scheme marker, resolve the effects, then get to the instructions about replacing and get confused). It would say a specific timing if it said something like "when resolving, before resolving any of the effects, replace the scheme marker with a dove."

Well, one of the reasons for the trigger phrasing is probably the fact that Rasputina has the trigger as well (they consolidated the triggers). But I don't see how any reading other than "within pulse 2 of either of the two markers (the main effect and trigger)" works. Also consider Colette Du Bois: By the same logic, her trigger doesn't actually work (as you don't perform the trigger until after everything else). There's clearly meant to be some inferences made - some abilities only work if you resolve the 'when resolving' trigger alongside the other one. In this case, there's a pretty clear inference you do both pillars at once (and they could have phrased it better, except again, the trigger is shared with other models). They couldn't use "immediately" language, because that would alter the effect (it would happen whether or not the duel succeeded). The rules say: From this, we might infer that the ice pillar is not a 'new effect' but rather 'modifies' the effect (and thus happens alongside it). And again, the word 'then' gives a pretty clear indicator that the pulse effect is supposed to happen last. I agree this sort of stuff will ideally be cleaned up, but don't see how it is a problem in the meantime. I can't imagine anyone is seriously going to argue that you can only do it with the first pillar in an actual game. It clearly isn't meant to work that way.

Right, so I had a question about Von Schtook's recruitment drive: So if I understand this correctly, in step 6c of damage timing you're supposed to resolve Dig their Graves and Recruitment Drive. Can you resolve the Recruitment Drive first, and then the Dig Their Graves, securing the point? I had assumed no, as the conditions for Dig Their Graves aren't met at the start of resolving 6c. However, it seems like not everyone plays that way?

Understandable! The rules are not nearly as polished as something like Magic: The Gathering for instance. There's a lot of areas where some clarity would be useful (particularly for timing). Which isn't a criticism of Wyrd per se - a wargame is significantly more complex than a card game (since you're dealing with 3ish dimensional space in addition to timing). But it does mean things get quite murky. For ambiguities like this, I find it best to talk to a playgroup (or tournament organiser) before games to make sure everyone is on the same page for how an ability works.

Well, Malifaux rules typically require a bit of reading between the lines. Here's some justifications on a rules basis for my interpretation: Sequential effects allows for queuing effects. The 'then' shows that the second part of the effect is meant to happen last (while the 'when resolving' in the trigger means it is supposed to happen with the main effect). Here are some common sense reasons why it should work the way I have outlined. If it doesn't work the way I have said (and it is any ice pillar created 'this way')... Rampage (like on Arcane Emissary) becomes insane, as every time you use the trigger, every model ever hit by the ability is affected. Blade rush - you do 1 damage to every model that has been charged through 'this way', so you'd do one damage to every model ever charged through with that model? Ice path (on ice dancer) again, uses 'this way' If you look at all the 'this way' examples for cards, the game quickly breaks down if you're supposed to track them for every instance of the ability instead of the current instance.

This has come up before, and note that the ability can create two pillars with its tome trigger. It is unlikely you're meant to have two different type of ice pillars with the same name, so it probably means 'this use of the ability'. EDIT: Since the trigger is when resolving, and the part that talks about one of the ice pillars says "then", it is likely the 'then' is supposed to happen last.

I think this is the key issue. It's not really a balance issue, it is an accessibility issue. Players with half a faction are obviously far more favoured than people who only own part of a faction. EDIT: There was a discussion on whether Malifaux has a 'pay-to-win' problem a while back, you could look it up. Most people were of the view that Malifaux is 'pay-to-play', but that cost is pretty high.

Unfortunately you can't use it against stiched. Gamble doesn't count as a duel, and you can only use the old ways against duels. EDIT: Nor can you use it on damage flips, so it must be pretty rare to use the same card over and over?

Thanks for your thoughts! Basically. This strategy has become pretty dominant in my meta. The winning tables tend to be deleting 1-3 models a turn, so battle can get pretty intense (less so on corner deployment of course). That said, the crew has pretty good scheming power. Archie is one of our faction's best scheme runners IMO (as he can scheme very effectively without being so squishy that he can be deleted easily by the enemy team). Asura Roten can bring zombies into play on any table edge (as long as you have a tomes or crow in hand), and then those zombies can interact (although unfortunately she can't use her bonus action to make them interact, she can use it to make them reposition). EDIT: Damn, I forgot the zombies can't interact at all that first turn (mindless, her bonus action can't do it, AND summoned models can't interact the turn they come down. Editing the schemes too). So I imagine the crew would be pretty good at: Breakthrough Harness the Leyline Search the Ruins Dig their Graves (although so is any crew with a grave digger) Power ritual (it is pretty crazy that Asura can do this from across the board, as long as she can get sight). Outflank Assassinate Claim Jump So that's ~97% 82% of scheme pools that they can probably do pretty well. Of course, they might struggle if it is plant explosives (the interacts just add up to too many at that point). It is also hilarious to imagine the mindless zombies moving corrupted idols, but that'll be pretty niche as you need lucky setup for that. So when you take into account scheme pools, strategies, and deployment types... I'd imagine this would be a good crew in at least 30% of pools (assuming the crew idea ends up working out). And of course, don't forget masters are very good at scheming. If you manage to get the board down to a couple of models, two of which are your remaining masters, you can do quite a bit of scheming that final turn. But yes, definitely fits in the "prioritise killing, scheme later" types of crew. I think you really only need two attacks to make it worthwhile, and for that she has a threat range of ~18" (ignoring severe terrain). Assuming you have a corpse marker positioned correctly, of course. The whole crew hinges on the question of whether the markers can be positioned correctly. Yeah, this is definitely a problem. I do like crews like Forgotten that can be very flexible with their activations. However, in tournaments one positive of this is at least gameplay will be much faster. Normally I don't like The Whisper, as it doesn't change what cards are there, just gives you information and the order. You still have to work through them. However, in this case, I think you're right the crew probably wants it. Asura in particular really would benefit from having it, as she realllly needs those triggers to be done correctly, and stoning with the correct cards on top of the deck will allow her to hit her double suits. Excellent suggestion. I don't think you can drop GST as long as the crew has enough soulstones when you take it. That focus is super important. Seamus really wants to be landing his hits (and cheating with moderate damage at least). Reva doesn't need to cheat damage, but she would like to hit, and focus can often save a card. The two 10SS slots is really pushing it, I agree. However, remember one of those slots is actually just a support model (repositioning corpses) and has other roles (archie can scheme really well, and then if other beaters die he can swap roles to being a beater. Grave Golem can do Claim Jump really, really well). Yeah, I think you're right on the Seamus as leader (especialy as Reva can still summon her corpse candles by discarding occasionally. Doubt you'll ever want to summon two except maybe turn 1), but the crew could be neat without Seamus and just run as a Reva crew. I think overall you're probably right, the crew may be too resource hungry (although keep in mind Archie isn't as resource hungry as he usually is for this crew, since he plays a different role. He is more like an effigy with a fate upgrade. Early game supports, turns into a new beater when your primary ones die). If this crew falls over, it'll either be on the corpse engine not being workable or the crew being too resource hungry. I'll try to test it out, with updates from your suggestions.

Worth a go! Although at that point might drop Seamus altogether. Haven't had a chance to put it on the table yet (don't own all the models either), but will set up a proxy game sometime. A shieldbearer could be sweet, but I worry they're be not enough corpses at that point. It'd probably be fine if you had Asura pumping them out I suppose!

Here's a rather strange list I came up with! It'll be a while before I can play it, but thought I'd share it here. I call it corpse fiesta! Seamus + totem Reva Archie or Grave Golem Asura Roten or Emissary Gravedigger Grave spirit's touch on any model. Optionally a corpse candle. Seamus and Reva bring crazy killing power that synergizes with corpse markers. Archie/Grave Golem can hurl corpses (including candles and mindless zombies), ensuring repositioning as needed. Archie is more resource hungry AND can't focus, so have to consider that. Archie is a better schemer, however. Gravedigger and another model with grave spirits touch pulse out focus for the whole team. Starting with two extra focus helps counterbalance the lack of card draw. Asura roten brings scheming power, as well as walking corpse markers. The emissary brings terrain for Seamus and walking corpse markers. Probably matchup dependent which you bring. You probably never want Archie + Emissary, as they're too resource hungry and the crew might starve for cards (unless Archie is a dedicated schemer/corpse thrower). The idea is a crew that packs a hell of a wallop, can attack from crazy angles and at a distance, and has a surprising amount of scheming power to boot. It is the first double master list that I have made that I really like the thematic feel of too! What do you think?

Pretty sure it stacks. Since it says +1" (and not 1"), they should stack. 5 copies of the effect gives +5 inches for your crew. Pretty crazy for corner deployment! Also keep in mind it doesn't look like a very big keyword, so it'll probably get more models later on. I don't know much about the crew beyond that, though, so hopefully someone can be more helpful

There's no issue with taking the same faction, or even master, or in fact identical crews! Even in the story of Malifaux, there's plenty of internal disagreements in the factions. Or maybe they're having a practice bout. Rules wise, nothing stops it

I'm wondering if anyone uses terrain to even up the odds in casual games? Also curious about stories of messing up games by getting the board balance wrong! Sometimes you have a player who just tends to win more. Sometimes you have mismatched crews. I'm wondering how often people use terrain in casual games to even up discrepancies like this. Maybe even something like if you play an opponent and lose, the next time you play them you get to decide the battlefield (jungle with loads of forests, city with loads of buildings, etc). Also wonder how it'll work out for some of the 'weak' masters. Reva is renown for being weak, but personally I think she has tons of potential on a forest heavy map. The ability to walk through them unimpeded as well as 'see' through them with corpse markers is pretty wicked. If I'm playing Molly, we have started to check and discuss all the sight corridors before the game. Molly with an open board becomes heavily favoured, and so it is a good thing to watch out for. It is something I didn't originally put much thought into in the first few games, but now try to take into account game balance for boards. I'm curious as to what other people's process for terrain and game balance is?

Oh, sorry, missed the part where you were looking for Guild stuff only. I don't know that faction so can't be helpful!

It actually isn't too bad to find an imperial tape measure in my country at least. And many systems use the imperial system (warhammer, dnd, etc). So isn't too much of a bother. The discrepancy between base sizes and terrain markers and inches is very annoying though. In an ideal world, they'd all be the same system.

Well, my rabble risers frequently go up to 4-5 focus on turn one... And take two activations many turns. So it isn't like it is unreasonably difficult. The game is full of 'broken' things. Though there is like a seven page thread on stitched together in the Neverborn forum (where ultimately I do think they need a nerf), so I won't cover it more here.

I don't think he is great in all crews. I think he is viable, but for example Von Schtook and Jack Daw have much better models (for them) in keyword. Unless you mean a consideration in all Reva lists!

Rabble Risers can do it somewhat consistently (haven't worked out the exact math), but they'll easily take 3 focused attacks in one activation. Of course, they'll end up with three poison for their trouble. I think that defense wise, handing out poison is the most egregious thing currently. Offensively, their Gamble Fate should be an attack. Yeah, that is what I mean. My point is changes like this slowly eliminate the niche scenarios. I personally found it super exciting that I was able to bait the First Mate into severe terrain due to its leap, then was able to use the only 2" engagement range in my crew (Dead Rider) to hit him twice. I like back and forth counterplay, where you have to assemble the correct conditions to negate an enemy advantage. If you can do it with any 1" engagement range, that's fine... But it is an example of a niche scenario that loses a bit of the Malifaux Shine. Of course, if you needed to make that change it'd probably be fine. But the measuring issue you've raised doesn't seem like the problem you've made it out to be, and it will take away dozens and dozens of interesting interactions.

The difference there is that severe terrain currently only stops butterfly jumping for 2" engagement ranges. This change would make it so butterfly jump wouldn't work for any attacks. I agree some stuff needs to be simplified, but there comes a point where it is too much. Just look at the evolution of warhammer fantasy into sigmar.

Thinking about this more, any token based crew may be a close analogue to Storm. Plague Hamelin stacks tokens on enemies, and then does damage equal to those enemies. It is very similar to getting storm count racked up then doing one massive hit to wipe something out. The other crews with tokens also have similar mechanics, and they are a lot more consistent than McMourning for example (as you can remove conditions, you can't remove tokens). There are several other token-based crews, but I don't know them very well.

My take above is that it doesn't necessarily break the game, it just makes it more... Boring. All this stuff to simplify the game to easier mechanics is quite a common thing in wargames. They often end up taking out all the really interesting niche mechanics (such as butterfly jump in severe terrain above) and make the game *too* streamlined IMO. I'd rather have a game with depth personally.

There was a third floor wars podcast a while back about the... Nova tournament, I think? In it, some of the players have a disagreement about a measuring issue and it turns into a bit of a scene. They both calm down and realise the answer is clean play. People should be conscious of trying to measure reasonably, and erring on the side of caution (if I am sloppy with moving through severe terrain and then find myself just within attack distance afterwards, I'll tell my opponent and often count myself as out of range for that movement. If I wasn't being precise, I can't claim that being precisely 8" away is valid). As a result, I find myself now being more careful with measuring everything (using proxy markers) in practice games. I was super sloppy last tournament, and am improving as I play more. You could try to boil down the rules to something super simple, but I think that robs Malifaux of what makes it so special: all these niche interactions. I love that if I attack a butterfly jump model in severe terrain it still escapes me, unless I use a 2" engagement range for example. This came up in a recent game, where I specifically decided to use my Dead Rider against the First Mate once it landed in severe terrain, as it made its butterfly jump ineffective.

I suspect the answer might be "every crew in Malifaux". It is seriously impressive how many combos and synergies every crew has that I've played so far. Molly: you have loads of discard synergies, and there is a lot of hand management (similar to Storm having to manage its cards/counts). You can also do things like attack your own models, cheat both cards, then discard a card, then use Molly to draw six to cycle out your whole hand if you want. Dreamer: You ramp up in power massively every turn, since you filter the bad cards out of your deck. Also rewards people who can count cards/calculate stats on the fly - potentially appealing to a Storm player. Can combo all sorts of abilities from the whole faction for his willpower duel summoning. McMourning: you stack a bunch of poison on yourself, then can transfer it to others and nuke them. Pandora: you can combo Kade and Pandora to spam executes, or attacks, or whatever. Also takes setting up conditions. Very 'setup' oriented crew. Also bonus shout out for Hamelin, since you work to stack blight tokens and then nuke people for it.

Also you cannot charge while engaged, so you can't use that to leave engagement. Other than that, moves will generally allow you to leave engagement.