beevison

Honestly, I prefer the tome being built in for drop it. Which gives them a 3" push, so once in the middle of a crew just by themselves they can get 6" push total on their activation. Without taking into account any "drop it's" from the rest of Parkers crew. I would far rather the tome be built in on her (0) to move a scheme marker. There're just so many things she can do. I don't see her as a beater, but as a disruption piece. Engaging models in annoying ways and being pushed about to be even more annoying. The only issue I really have her is until she gets into engagement she's very vulnerable.

I'm in agreement with ElPuto. Wokou Raiders are severely underestimated. Sure they're pricey, but they do so much. If you can get one engaging a bunch of models they can be very hard to shift. The not being able to cheat melee attacks against them is great. Their mobility with markers being placed (plenty of those when playing parker) is great and the zero action has won me games. I would honestly consider swapping out Johana for one and swapping Bishop for Sue (with return fire). Johana's main thing is condition removal, which Parker has access to with his new upgrades. As for Bishop, whilst I do agree he's a good beater, I feel anti Ca tech is more needed with Parker. Parker in general is an extremely "schemey" master, with a lot of tools. So when picking a crew for him I tend to focus on models that help him do this. Saying that, if you have a specific scheme or strategy in mind Bishop can be an excellent choice.

Whilst I have used both Student and Child multiple times. I've never done the Hannah with Fury on Blood. I don't really like using and upgrade slot on Blood for Fury. Although giving Hannah +2dmg is tempting. My main argument against Child or Hannah and the whole saving AP. Is one of card costs. For Ashes it costs a 6. Which is fine, one mediocre to bad card for +2 dmg is a good trade. With Child you need a 9, now I know that he gets positives so theres a decent chance you'll get it off. But if you don't get it you have to cheat what is a decent card. With Hannah it's less punishing needing 2 6s. But if you fail both times that's 2 cards you're cheating in. I used to consider Child as an autotake, but after a few more games under my belt playing around with the student. I think she's a brilliant totem. Just so much potential wrapped up in a tiny little bundle.

Oh if we were talking about just the attack then yes I agree with you. But you have to also keep in mind that the student has sisters in spirit. Which can work out at around 7" movement (if you include the students base) and giving out fast. So essentially giving extra AP to master. And that works on all sister models. Also a lot of the time sister in fury is simply over kill. Usually you are getting 3 attacks on the charge all min 3. Not denying the child is great. But I just find the student enables so much more.

Yeah the student does much more. Sisters in spirit. Occasional Fast. 2/3/4 dmg track with melee expert (whilst ashes is alive). Wk 6. 4ss a Peon model is kind of frustrating though

This might be a stupid question. But the pdf for this says the Lost Love 6 is a 45 SS fixed master tournament selecting from a pool of 70SS. But this post says 50SS. Which is it?

Whilst I agree that the prime strength of Viks is their ability to sling shot and alpha strike. It is a tried and proven tactic. The problem is that almost every experienced player knows this and has developed a way of dealing with this. If you can do something different and unexpected often the results are rewarding. Whilst the list I've built can't do a true slingshot attack. What it can do quite effectively is 2 shorter sling shots. Ashes often goes in by herself kills a couple models (and hopefully netting a couple of stones from this). With Marlena Ashes can survive at least a couple of models attacks. This is when Blood can then dive in. And kill these models, healing up ashes. Like I said I can't say, and I don't believe, that this is better than usual sling shot. It probably isn't. But I have found that in gg2018 it makes Viks more viable in more scheme pools. And as a side benefit it makes for a far more interesting and dynamic game.

So, I got a couple of games in over the weekend with this list (45ss). Unfortunately, both games were against Gremlins so the results are a little skewed and my opponent was of middling ability. 1st game was Standard, Symbols, Dig, Hold up their Forces, Punish the weak, Undercover Entourage, Public Demonstration. I went for Dig and Punish the Weak (Surprise!). I swapped out Marlena for Midnight Stalker (Scramble) and that guy is incredible for this Scheme, especially if you slap on the Don’t mind me trinket asap. I was playing against Ulix. Taking Punish the Weak and Undercover on Ulix. I’m not going to go through the battle in full. End result was 10-4 to me. This was slightly helped by Ulix failing to summon a war pig for first 3 turns (no 12) which cost him and allowed me to get into position. Normally when I play against Ulix with Viks he avoids balling up as he wants to. Knowing that I wasn’t playing slingshot meant that he felt more comfortable doing this. Giving me significant board control. The combination of the Emissary and the 2 Sisters in spirit gave me significant mobility that I had not expected. Allowed me to be where I wanted to be. I was punished significantly for only having the one minion and he made a very good play for my symbols that narrowly failed. Using pigapult and 3 piglets. He was hoping to get reactivate off on all of them with the hog whisperer, which would have been amazing. But he only had 2 high masks that he used early on in the turn defending against one of the viks I believe. Second was a real test; Corner, Ours! Guarded Treasure, Inescapable Trap, Take Prisoner, Take One for the Team and Recover Evidence. I was looking forward to this one as it was a very “anti-Viks” pool. I went up against Zipp. My opponent is relatively new to playing Zipp (this was his 3rd game) so it could have gone much worse for me. I took Take one for the team on Effigy, my thinking being he’s tough enough to survive a while and cheap enough to give me points against most things. And Recover Evidence, thinking that with the added mobility on Viks I could get to far flung markers once I’d killed enough of my opposing crew. I took Marlena this time, partly because I wanted to try her out and partly because the added survivability in this one would be more important than the mobility of the Stalker. Ashes died 2nd turn, but the sheer amount of AP spent on getting rid of her over the course of 2 turns I think is what won me the game. It should of taken more but for the first 3 turns of the game the highest card I had in my hand was a 6. In short, I can’t say that this method is “better” than Sling shot Viks. But, it was definitely more fun and more interesting to play. I love the Emissary (this was my first time using it) with them, the Stalker is incredible in certain pools (I already knew this) and Marlena as a denial piece is amazing. I do definitely feel that this is a better list for fixed master. Granted Outcasts have better generalists, but I honestly had such a blast playing them in this way I just didn’t care. Last note in this incredibly long post, I’m no longer sure about Sisters in Fury on Ashes. I used it once in both games and it didn’t feel entirely necessary. Wondering about swapping it out for Oathkeeper.

Hannah can't copy abilities from Leaders

Sisters in Fury reads this model and all friendly Sister models. So when Hannah copies it she counts as "this model" thus gaining the +2 dmg.

@misterfinn I haven't had the opportunity to use it yet. I'm hoping to test it out this weekend and see how it feels. I agree with you that the alpha/sling shot tactic is not something I go for, for all the reasons you've pointed out. Although, sometimes an opportunity is just too good to resist. I've never had Mystic Blades come up unfortunately, but my main opponent is a gremlin player and a new resser player (Seamus and nico). So that's not surprising. I just often find that I wish I'd used the slot for something else. Same with Synchronised slaying, 2SS for essentially chain activation I don't feel is justified. Especially when the Emissary is available and able to do so much work by himself. The main reason I'm trying this out is that I've a 3 round fixed master tournament coming up. And I want to play Viks, but I'm very aware that almost EVERYONE who has any experience will know how to deal with them. So trying to come up with a curve ball.

I completely agree on the whole telling people what they do and how they do it. But, even so most of the time the first time someone comes up against Viks there will be a pile of dead models by the end of turn two. And a slight green tinge to their faces. I think the easiest and simplest fix is to change the merc tax. Not sure how or what to suggest. But in this errata both Gremlins and Outcasts suffered the worst and mostly because of their mercs. As much as I love Hannah, I'm less inclined to take her in this crew build. Whilst copying and AR are great, I'm more inclined to go with Marlena for added Ash protection and random charges or Stalker as he's brilliant on to put opponent on the back foot from turn one.

@Aegnor Completely agree with you. Whilst I enjoy Viks. I find you either come up against a crew that can't deal with them and its a bloodbath. Or its a crew that can deal with them and its a bloodbath. I've managed to get the (2) action off a couple of times and both times have been incredible, always on a 50mm model and always going for whirlwinds from it.

I do like your idea of putting Sister in Fury on Blood for Hannah copy. Not only does this up Hannahs damage track to 4/6/8 which is pretty hilarious, but I've always liked Hannah as a "blocker" for the sisters. Part of my feels nervous of taking blood not just without Mark, but without oathkeeper too. The other issue I have with it is that I would have to drop Marlena and effigy... Not so fussed with Marlena. As this is optional between her or Stalker. Or now that I think about it, Mad Dog (his shotgun push is underrated IMHO). But regardless it's on my list of things to try out. I don't think this list is necessarily better than traditional Viks list. But I think the reason for that is that the traditional list is very basic and to the point. With very little moving parts. I think this might have some play (I won't know until I try it), but require much more care and attention. As far as I'm concerned that might be a good thing so that Viks are more interesting and dynamic for me again.

I know what you mean. I love Viks, but always feel a little guilty playing them (in slingshot mode anyways). I enjoy Levi quite a lot and all the options he opens up. Parker has to be my favourite, although I agree with the general consensus that he is a bit underpowered and overcomplicated. With so many moving parts it's very difficult to get all of them to align into a coherent game plan that comes off. But when it does it's very rewarding. I have a feeling that as a faction Wyrd aren't exactly sure what to do with Outcasts and where they sit. My main reasoning behind wanting to come up with a different play style with Viks is to throw a curve ball out there. So many experienced players no what to expect and how to counter a "true Viks" crew. I'm hoping that there might be a way to play to that and come up with something unexpected. It's why in general I've done better at tournaments with Parker than Viks. No one knows Parker that well, because there's so much he can do. Viks just do the murdering...

So the Viks are what brought me to Outcasts faction and are very much still my first love. I mean who doesn't love Katana wielding twin sisters?! Unfortunately, whilst the first few times you play them is very fun (not so much for your opponent and the pile of corpses they leave behind) but the whole sling shot and variations on this tactic gets a bit repetitive and is disastrous against an experienced player. I don't really feel that Wave 5 brought much to them. Sisterly Bonds is nice, but just doesn't really fit very well. Soaring Dragon gives an alternative play for Blood, but from a few times playing with it can be very resource intensive and vulnerable. So on that note I've been trying to come up with a different style of play, which relies less on throwing Blood down someones throat and more on surgically eliminating specific pieces and then pulling either sisters back. Through the use of Student of conflict and Vanessa. Ashes - Survivalist, Mark, Fury Blood - Oathkeeper, The bigger they are Student of conflict Hodgepodge Emissary - conflux of avarice Marlena Webster - Scramble Vanessa - Sisters in Spirit Hodgepodge effigy Now I know it might be madness for me to put mark on Ashes rather than Blood. But the way I see it Blood has easy access to positives for damage and attack. The idea isn't to make one murder machine, but that both sisters are capable against basically anything. Also combo of fury and bigger they are on Blood more than makes up for lack of the mark. It requires more finesse of where you go with each of the sisters. The general idea is that Ashes and Blood are each supported by either student or vanessa. They go in on certain targets and then get pulled back through sisters in spirit from vanessa or student. The hodgepodge effigy schemes and Emissary floats about doing whatever is needed. I also included Marlena to toughen Ashes up a bit and be a 3rd potential threat. This leaves 8stones left for something else to fill in. (extra scheme runner, ranged etc etc etc) I haven't tried this out yet. So I have no idea if it would work. Thoughts and criticisms on the idea would be most welcome. I'm still torn between Marlena and Stalker. Stalker would be a great distraction and threat piece. But soul tether and hard to kill on Ashes looks fun.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Convict Gunslinger is an enforcer and Sisterly bonds can only make minions sisters?

@Jesy Blue out of curiosity how are you using sisterly bonds?

If then intention is to play just Parker then you really don't need either Von Schill box or Viks. I occasionally take a Ronin, taken a trapper once. But for the most part I don't feel the need to use them. I tend to run more thematic crews. Sue fits perfectly into this and I've taken him in almost every Parker crew. Depending on the schemes Convict Gunslingers are handy and again fit quite well into theme. And since I got them I pretty much always run at least one Dead Outlaw. Of course there are plenty of other options, but those are the most common ones for me. I would agree with the general consensus so far. Parker is by no means an easy master to use. It's usually better to learn the intricacies of the Malifaux system before tackling a master that is quite difficult to get "right". Saying that I don't believe it should matter (especially to a new player) whether a Master is top tier, or best in faction. What matters more is whether you enjoy the way they play. As with apes-ma, I have a much higher win percentage with Viks and I do love them, but I have for more of a blast playing Parker and even when I'm losing I have fun. My advice would be to read up a bit about how the various masters play and tactics etc... and see what fits with your own play style.

It would make me happy. Also if his trigger on his melee attack for using the shotgun was built in that would be nice. But probably excessive.

I would personally love it if instead of rapid fire he got something more akin to Laz's auto fire ability. 3 shots but can be fired at different targets. Being able to blow back 3 models would be great.

Out of curiosity what stops a sniper using "from the shadows" to start on top of unreachable building top.

Agree. And I think that's the point, I don't see activation control as just having more models activate than your opponent. It's also having the ability to use your activations to control your opponents. Well that's my opinion and I'll probably stick to it. At least until I play against Hamelin...

I tend to run A&D as a kind of pseudo scheme runner (yes very expensive one) but with 3AP and 3/4/6 dmg track he munches on other scheme runners and has a trigger to summon an abomination on kill. And once he's dealt with scheme runners he can move back to fight and be beatstick A&D. I'm so used to not having activation control, considering my two main opponents run Ulyx and Somer respectively. So I've had to learn ways around it (some of these involve throwing a Vik down their throat ). A&D is one of these. I get why everyone goes on and on about activation control and count. Personally I see it as an advantage but not an unassailable one.

Ah Ok. Have to say the new Blight mechanics seem like he would be more fun to play with now.