SevenThirtySeven

Thanks, good points. I hope it's clear from the deferential tone of the original post, my intent is just to try to find ways to improve the process. It doesn't mean I am specifically sold on one idea on how to do this, so I appreciate the discussion. I think locking in rankings at the time of the games would be the easiest and simplest ways to calculate. Those rankings aren't too hard to find and document. Sure, it wouldn't mitigate errors like you mention (a player going on a great run of tournaments over a 3 month span), but I think it would still be better than a system agnostic of "strength of opponent" elements. I also think the adjustments should be subtle, so that these will adjustment someone's ranking by 20-30 points over the course of a year, no 60-80. If someone complains that they got an "easier" draw of opponents, they shouldn't, because they probably stomped those newer players and earned a win with a great differential - which would always outweigh strength of opponent adjustments. That's one of the big things I hope this could address - score inflation against new players. I have witnessed many scenarios where people have been artificially propped up by 10-0 scores against brand new players in tournaments. Malifaux is a hard game, and the learning curve is steep. Even a player with average experience has a great advantage vs. a brand new one. And like I said earlier, I think it would also be nice to reward players who either played very tough opponents all tourney (and prob didn't have the W/L ratio to place as a result) and reward players who placed while also playing the toughest opponents. Given the data we have, I don't think that would an insurmountable change as long as TO were willing to write in current rankings of players in their tourney when they submit. Players could probably help this process too. As for receiving bonuses for playing people who have a master who is bad at a certain strat.... maybe they should play a different master who is better for that strat in that game? It's the beauty of this game system. To turn the question back to you, you seem to be defending the status quo. I think we both agree that no system would be perfect, and all we would search for is a varying degree of improvement. Nothing I'm proposing would lead to a "perfect" system, but I'm just searching for a modicum of improvement over time. I don't know of any system I've ever worked with that had a "perfect" fix, either professionally or in games. To that point - do you think this system is good enough so that we shouldn't try to improve? What improvements could me made that would be easier or harder?

Fair enough! Sorry, not trying to come off as being overly critical, I think the ranking system is a great addition to the game. Just offering some thoughts. There is prob some an easy code to write which could assist here, in case you are ever interested. I have personally been to several events where folks finish #2 and #3 etc, and don't have to play any of the Top 3 ranked players at the tournament, which is why I bring this up. Just want to give folks credit for quality games vs top opponents vs running up big differentials on newer players.

Great work on this project! I'm sure this will be a great asset as the competitive scene for this community grows. A quick question on the ranking algorithm: From a glance it appears that players earn points from where they place at events, and those points increase commensurately to the size of the tournament. How easy/difficult would it be to also add a variable which modifies the final point total based on the quality of the opponents? For example, I think it would be far more challenging to place 3rd at a 20-person event where they played against 2 or more top 50 players (or maybe beat a Top 20 player, etc), than a player who won a tournament with 15-20 people and didn't play anyone in the Top 50, even Top 75. I've also seen players finish tournaments #2 or #3, but due to limiting most 1 day tournaments to 3 games, didn't have to play anyone at the top tables all day. Adding this extra variable should be easy since player rankings are readily available? On the downside, this might add an unneeded layer or complexity or create a points bias for established metas (such as the various East Coast metas). Just curious, thanks!

Excellent podcast! Love the depth of analysis. All the guests are great, but my favorite guest is James Doxey. I have listened to almost all the main Malifaux podcasts and I doubt any player out there has a better understanding of the game than Mr. Doxey. Feedback: Would love to hear more battle reports from the top UK players. I enjoy how the Max Value podcast guys talk about each of their tournament games in depth, and it provides a nice window into how great players think about the game while they are playing. Contextual situations, where they debate in their heads how to act given the models in front of them, schemes, cards in hand, etc.

Yea, but even if you focus, you need 2 severes from your hand and likely a stone for the suit. One to hit, one to cheat the dmg. A lot easier to just get a healing flip on an 8 of any suit. Not saying this trigger is impossible. It's just not something I'd count on for healing in a game.

I'll be honest, I've only ever been able to use Snow Storm's heal trigger once. It's not that easy to pull off. He has to kill the model the do it, it needs a crow, and it needs to hit. So you either need to have a high crow in hand and a near-dead model, or you need to stone for the crow and also have a near-dead model. And have a high enough card that the opponent can't cheat, since healing 5 dmg is a big deal and worth a high card on their end to prevent. Silent One's heal is far easier, you just need an 8 to cast.

Welcome to the good(?) guys! Look forward to following. Quick question, you mentioned that stoning for a mask repeat trigger after focus is better than 2 normal attacks. In certain situations I definitely agree. But I notice that you don't usually take Shattered Mirror, instead taking Armor of December. Without Shattered Mirror, Raspy can't declare triggers on any of her ice mirror attacks. Do you usually get her close enough to the action to not need to Ice mirror much?

Great summary, thanks!!! Btw, can you cast multiple Wind Walls per turn with him?

What do you guys think of The Captain? I know general consensus is that he's way over costed. Does he have to have his upgrade if you take him? He hits like a truck, and seems pretty survivable. Anyone get utility out of spamming Airburst or Wind Walls? Thanks

I like everything you said, very on point. Only addition I'd like to make is the same one the poster above did, which is to take Silent Ones. I usually take at least one. With a gamin around they literally have the nearly same damage profile as basic Raspy (3/4B/5B), the heals are critical for your big node models like Snow Storm and Emissary. But most importantly, there isn't a shooting icon on their casts! So you can shoot into combat with no randomization. You can also ignore enemy soft cover and hard cover. Such a huge advantage over the Raspy December's Curse. Silent ones always pull their weight for me in every game. They may appear to do similar things, but they actually complent her very well by doing two things she can't do well - heal, and ignore cover / engagement randomization.

Welcome! I'm relatively new too, nice to have other fellow new players around! I think Mechanical Rider (Arcanist Enforcer) and Johan (Outcast enforcer) are probably good pick-ups for Ramos too. Mech rider is just a great all around Arcanist model that will be seen in a variety of crews. Johan has a great healing synergy for M&SU models and also has condition removal. And if you pick up Mechanical Rider maybe pick up a pack of Metal Gamin too. Mech Rider can summon arachnid spiders as well, but Metal Gamin are often good in different situations. Good luck!

Hey man, glad to be of help. With the Ice Tornado, remember that a model can't target itself with an attack action. But if you have another frozen heart model engaged, you can shoot into that combat with fear of damaging your model. For Snow Storm and Arcane Emissary, I almost always take just one of the two. Only situations where I'd take both are in specific scheme pools in Extraction and Stash. I agree with you that those two are very expensive and take up a lot of points if taken together. I usually prefer Snow Storm, but can take Arcane Emissary sometimes in situations where I expect the opponent to have a lot of cheap models (who could bog down and engage Snow Storm), or in deployments where I don't need a lot of Turn 1 movement, like Flank or Close. Depending on the scheme pool, I could take the Emissary because he has some cool movement triggers for enemy models in his attack triggers, in case I need to manipulate the position of enemy models to score/deny schemes.

You bring up some good points. I think Snow Storm is a great pickup, for many reasons. He is expensive, and you may look at his cost and lament the fact that he doesn't hit quite as hard as a Howard or Cerberus (I certainly have!), but his value is in utility. He can do it all for you, and covers many weaknesses of the Frozen Heart crews. His December's call movement action let's him place a model up to 10" from where they start (if you count the other side of his 50mm base), which is amazingly good. It's add movement at the start of the game. I often use it turn 1 to get Wendigo in a position to cast some aggressively annoying ice walls. You can also call Raspy to Snow Storm if she gets engaged by an annoying model like a raptor or skeeter. Or call any other Frozen Heart model if you need to get them out of an tough engagement. That ability has saved me so many times. Snow Storm also presents some complex decisions for your opponent: - Do they engage him and subject one of their model to his very nice melee attacks in order to deny him as the ideal ice mirror choice? At height 3, he can see almost everything from the center of the board and gives Raspy great board control. - Do they shoot him instead? If they don't want a model to engage him and die, they can shoot him, but bulletproof +3 makes that very difficult. - Do they use casts or lures to hurt him or take him out of position? This is probably the best option for opponents, but that's why I almost always take Warding Runes on him for counterspell, especially vs Ressers and Neverborn. Makes it very hard to cast, and almost impossible to lure since I think all lures need printed suits to go off. Being a Henchman, Snow Storm can use stones to prevent damage or gain a suit (like for his ++ flip to damage or heal 5 dmg triggers). He also as great baseline stats (6s for most stats, plus a great 3" engage). Snowstorm is also a Spirit, so anything with a special ability when targeting Constructs, Undead, or Living models (and let's admit, those are the most common characteristics used in the game) doesn't impact him. Lastly, don't underestimate his Ice Tornado. Since it doesn't damage Frozen Heart models, you can have no fear casting into a combat with a member of your crew. In those cases, I'm almost happier when I randomize into my own model, since then I can cheat their defense down, guarantee a severe triple blast onto nearby enemy models, then push my own model out engagement range if I want to. You can also just cast it on a cluster of your own frozen heart models at the start of the game to give them all a free 3" push. Arcane Emissary is great too, for other reasons. Will follow upon in a post later tonight. But bottom line, I think Raspy needs one of the two for her to maximize her AP and establish board control with her attacks, armor buffs, and walls. She needs a height 3 tanky Frozen Heart model to make the most of that, and both SnowStorm and Arcane Emissary are the best choices. They also provide so much additional value to her crews.

Fair enough. I guess Raspy can be ok in Head Hunter during close deployment, but that's a very rare set up. I just think other Arcanist masters are much better than Raspy for HH, so unless you are forcing yourself to take her every game, why try to put a round peg in a square hole? The original poster said he has Marcus and Deep, which are far better at HH than Raspy in my mind. Also, remember that if the Arcane Emissary is engaged he can be Ice mirrored, but if Raspy is targeting the combat the Emissary is in, she still has to randomize. The Emissary's ice mirror/engagement rule is good for when you want to use the Emissary's height 3 to see over the combat he's in and into the back line. But not ideal for shooting into his own combat unless you are using Silent Ones.

To your point, I have started taking Myranda with IE and shape changed her into a Cerberus turn 1. Four free cards (which Raspy loves), and then I use the Cerberus as a mobile beater. Like you said, you MUST spam the armor buff on the Cerberus to keep it alive, but if you do it's so much tougher to remove and get below "three headed". It's a great idea. If you have a few ice gamin walking around, have them use their (0) to give the Cerberus +1 dmg, since it is now considered a Frozen Heart model with the armor buff. So 4/5/6 dmg track with positive flips! Speaking of the ice gamin, I often think of Raspy as a bubble master. At the front of the bubble is your big frozen heart ice mirror node (Snow Storm, Emissary). On the sides you have another henchman (Joss maybe), Acolytes, Silent Ones, etc. Raspy in the back. But in the middle you have an ice gamin or two who always have the (0) action up. So all these models get +1 dmg. The silent one's dmg track goes from 2/3B/4B to 3/4B/5B... that basically turns them into another Raspy... who also ignore cover! A lot of other attacks get deadlier: think of Snow Storm's Tornado cast- its goes from 2/3BB/3BBB to 3/4BB/4BBB. Amazing how 1 point of damage can add up! Going back to the armor buff, if you take Joss and give him armor, he's armor +4, which basically makes him unkillable unless the enemy can ignore armor. How about 3+ armor on a Howard Langston? With an ice gamin around, he also could get a damage track of 5/6/7... Lots of possibilies to play Raspy as a support master. She's a lot cheaper at this point too, because you usually needed to take Shattered Heart if you plan to use her offensively, and that's a costly 3ss upgrade on its own. To ignore cover, take Silent Ones and Arcane Emissary. And in case I haven't said this enough lol, try using ice gamin for the bonus damage. The Arcane Emissary's damage track gets a lot scarier when you add +1 dmg to all attacks.

Lol, a bit confident eh? Do you play anyone that knows what Raspy does? Or do you just curb stomp newbies at your LGS?

I think Raspy is great, but it needs to be the right situation for her to shine. Her crews can be great at removing models and creating terrain. Be careful getting too engrossed in killing models with her frozen heart crews though, especially in schemey GG2017. She's a hammer, and when you always bring a hammer, everything starts looking like a nail! I think she really excels in Extraction, Stash, and Bounty. Especially vs Neverborn, Guild, and Ressers. Even Gremlins to an extent, although Gremlins are tough vs everyone when they are played well. She can struggle in Headhunter - in HH you need to be a bit closer, and when that happens, your models can get engaged, which means she can't ice mirror and she has to randomize when shooting (Silent Ones and Arcane Emissary are the best takes when you expect to be engaged quickly due to their non-shooting icon Ca attacks). Interference is ok, but she almost always needs to take either Snow Storm ( 11ss) or Arcane Emissary (10ss) in every crew. So when you combine that with the near mandatory mech rider, that's a lot of SS tied to two models for that strat. And at that points it's hard to compete against a summoner. Marcus has much better cheap minions, and Sandeep can summon gamin, so I think those are better options for you.

How can Bishop ignore defensive triggers?

Ok, hah sorry to ruin the fun, but in my opinion this Bishop thing is getting out of hand... Few things to keep in mind: 1. Bishop can't be holder of Pack Leader, because he is not a Beast before the start of game. You have to have the Beast characteristic to choose Pack Leader 2. Bishop is an enforcer, not a henchman. So even if he could hold Pack Leader, he couldn't hold Pack Leader and I.E. at same time. 3. Bishop has a 1" reach and a 4" walk. It takes a very specific scenario for him to be able to take advantage of all these attacks. 4. Bishop is D6 with no armor, no H2W, and no H2K. His defensive trigger is sick, but any opponent worth their salt will know what is coming when Bishop is taken in a Marcus list. He can go down fast unless you are very careful. And if you are very careful, chances are he isn't in position to take advantage of all of these smell fear attacks. 5. Bishop with I.E. in a Marcus list will cost as much as Howard or a Mech Rider!

Great post. Question in Essence of Power - his (2) gives everyone within 3" +1 cast. If another academic more than 3" from EoP uses Beacon to copy a Sandeep cast, does it get the +1Ca too? All the Beacon ability says is that you have to "take a Ca action printed on the models stats card", doesn't say anything about having to use the exact Ca profile.

Hey guys, good thread. I haven't read through the whole thing, and I'm going to guess many answers to this question are somewhere within this font of knowledge, but - When do you guys use Darzee's Chaunt on your own beaters? Is it only if you have activation control and it's the end of the turn? Do you ever do it earlier and give the opponent a chance to attack your model on double negative Df flips? Do you always target a big beater, or do you sometimes give it to a cheaper less important model? Thanks!

I've seen people proxy Kudra for her, seems easy enough. A question to a question though - Anyone know when the real Amina model is scheduled to be released?

Hey guys, Been a lurker for a while, hope this isn't too obvious of a question. I looked several pages back and didn't see a post on this. When you take a sniper, when/why is it either Hans or the Trapper? From speaking to local people, it seems like the Trapper is the pick vast majority of the time due to cost effectiveness. Is this how it should be? If Trapper is default, in what situations do you take Hans and with what upgrades? Thanks!

Good summary. Question though: How is Raspy a good pick vs Ressers? The hard to wound makes it very difficult to get any straight flips for her December's Curse, even when you focus. Do you just take her black joker upgrade and fish for jokers with triple negative flips? Or do you utilize her other abilities, or those of other Frozen Heart models? Thanks

Lot of good points in this thread. Quick question - what does Somer NOT like to see? Is it strat/scheme specific, or are there certain masters or abilities that he doesn't like to tango with? Thanks