santaclaws01

My interpretation is that LoS lines need to actually intersect with the target. Yours is that LoS lines only, to go with your definition of touch, need to come infinitely close to the target. Both make the same number of assumptions.

Can you source that in the rules? Because as of now it's just a difference in interpretation.

Mathematically they aren't the same thing. Touching doesn't mean one shared point, it means to points/edges infinitely close to each other. Model's block LoS yes, but they don't block the actual lines used to determine LoS. LoS is determined by drawing lines from the base of the active model to the target, if none of these lines go through another model or terrain then there is LoS between the active model and its target. My reasoning for LoS lines needing to actually enter the base is this: You have 2 models that would be base to base to each other. Now one model(Model moves away over blocking terrain into such a position that if the other model(Model A) were to draw LoS lines to Model B, no lines would be possible that do not go through the blocking terrain while still actually intersecting the base of Model B, however, a LoS line is possible that starts from on Model A's base that runs parallel to Model B's base and would be touching it but at no point in it's path does it ever actually intersect with Model B's base. Model A can not have LoS on Model B, but if LoS lines need only touch the base, as you both state, then Model A would have LoS on Model B.

There is no difference with what? And I'm asking what is needed to satisfy what gives LoS, not if they are restricted to one or the other. There are 2 posibilities, LoS lines only need to touch the base of the target to confirm that the active model has LoS on the target or they need to actually "enter" the base of the target to confirm the active model has LoS on the target. If only touch is required the the LoS line will never enter the models base and thus the active model will have LoS on the scheme marker. If LoS lines need to actually enter the base of the target(what I think is happening), then the LoS lines have to enter the model as well as the Scheme Marker, but because models block LoS then the active model does not have LoS on the Scheme Marker.

Not a valid comparison because scheme markers don't block LoS. Models do. And the fact that LoS is top down has no bearing on this right now. I'll ask again. Are the LoS lines only hitting the base of the target or are they actually "entering" the base of the target?

"Height(Ht): The model's relative height in the game. Ht is used when drawing Line of Sight (see page 40)" (big rule book, pg 21) It is clearly stated what Ht is used for, and that is LoS. Any other use of Ht is not supported by the rules. EDIT: I'll also add that Ht has interactions with engagement range and elevation which are specifically stated. If Auras and Pulses had any interaction with Ht other than for LoS it would be stated.

Martyr is after damage reduction, so the sorrow takes 4 damage, and is reduced to 2 first. Now judging by the fact that NAGI21 said that is more than enough to kill it the Sorrow has 1 HP left. The question is does the sorrow actually take 2 damage or 1 damage because it only has 1 wound and a model can't have negative wounds. I say the sorrow still takes 2 damage unless someone can find a rule in the book saying a model can't take more damage than its remaining rules(which I am currently looking for), it just can't be taken below 0 wounds.

Which isn't applicable here because there would be 100% overlap of model and cover, no part of the model is outside of the cover. And can we please keep this on topic with the Scheme Markers? As I said earlier, I thought my cover example would be more clear cut but apparently it's not so there's no point in bringing it up anymore. Just to clarify, you are saying the LoS doesn't at any point have to enter the target and just has to touch it, correct?

Through doesn't just mean in one end and out the other. Through can mean starting outside and ending inside, which would be satisfied even if you end inside an infinitely small point.

I would drop the Stitched and pick up Handbag for Widow Weaver, On Dreaming Wings for Coppelius/Widow Weaver/Teddy, and maybe another daydream or upgrade.

1835 shipped. Can't wait to start assembling everything come monday.

Any Neverborn with the "Nightmare" characteristic is good, with Teddy getting special mention. Terror Tots and Silurids will give you options for scheme runners. Waldgeist can help you advance on any gunlines because of the cover they can generate.

You seem to conveniently be ignoring the sentence right after that. "The model's Ht stat does, however, come in to play when determining the quality of the LoS". Actually why are we even talking about Ht? Do Scheme Markers have a defined Ht anywhere? My whole reasoning for this is that models block LoS, and for any LoS to hit the marker it would also have to hit the model, thus the LoS to the marker will be blocked. Firstly Ht 0 cover is literally useless and won't grant cover to anyone. Partially is not all the way in. In that example LoS could be drawn to the part of Lilith that is out of cover. I'm talking about someone that is 100% within a piece of cover but is perfectly aligned with the edges of it. Both situations are functionally the same. Any LoS you draw that hits one hits the other at the same place. I just gave an analogous situation that I thought had a clear cut answer but apparently it doesn't so there's no point in continuing to bring it up.

Line of Sight A model has LoS to a target if at least one of the LoS lines drawn between the acting model and the target does not cross intervening blocking terrain or models(pg 40, big rule book) For LoS to be drawn on the marker from anywhere, the lines would also be hitting the base of the model on top of it. Of course Ht influences LoS. That's the whole reason Ht exists as a stat. Quite easily. You don't have to see something to be able to touch it.

Would you say that if you had a model in terrain that granted soft cover, and you were able to align it perfectly with the edge of the terrain that you would be granted soft cover against any models making a projectile Sh attack against you?

I would say that if you perfectly aligned a 30mm model on top of a scheme marker you block line of sight to it, because it's impossible to draw any LoS lines to the marker that don't also go through your base.

Looks like the small one is the wrong one. http://gmortschaotica.blogspot.com/2015/06/unboxing-malifaux-johan.html

I think a 2SS totem for the Crossroads 7 would make more sense, because that way it can be hired into either a 50ss or Henchman Hardcore game.

There probably won't be any Mr models in the same fashion as Miss Erry, Miss Anthrope, Miss Pack, etc because "Mister" doesn't fit into existing words like "mis(s)" does. That doesn't mean there won't be masculinized(is that a word?) versions of female characters in the same vein as Johana and Johan.

Ah. In that case you would push either 4 inches or push into base with the target model/marker. Once the bases are touching, any more push in the same direction would be pushing away because measurements are made from closest point to closest point.

A push to base won't have a set distance. The maximum distance for a push to base is whatever the distance is between the two closest points of the models are. It could be 1", it could be 12". You just need to push as close to the max as possible. Also I take back what I said earlier in response to bengts hypothetical. Adrian's response would be correct in that you end the push behind the blocking incorporeal model, and push through both to the other side.

All distances are measured closest point to closest point, not center to center. Once you have the smallest bit of overlap on the bases you are pushing away from the destination point.

Also, I think the rules thread on pushing into base contact with a scheme marker is pretty relevant here. Essentially the same situation, just with a scheme marker instead of a model.

Where you stopped isn't a valid placement so you would keep going. I'm going on just the wording of the push. It says push into base contact. Once you are in base contact the push should end. That combined with Malifaux being permissive in its rules and nothing saying you can push through an incorporeal model to the other side to achieve base contact, or anything saying an incorporeal model can push through to the otherside of the target to achieve base contact.

The push should end when you satisfy the conditions of the push. Once become base to base with the incorporeal model your push ends because you have satisfied the conditions of the push.