Whut

I find it difficult to believe that anyone could still think Guild are underpowered, cosnidering they just received one of the downright best and least counterable masters in the game, Sonnia continues to be a win-on-turn-2 nutcase, and McCabe and Perdita continue to be powerful masters (and McCabe got Thralls holy f*ck). I can go into more detail if anyone cares.

The Formless Mantra (0) action on Sandeep's Enlightened Soul upgrade only mentions "target friendly model", it states no Rg and has no "In LoS" phrasing like most other actions and abilities without a range. "Targeting" requires LoS, but without a stated range can we just assume that the action can be cast from anywhere on the board?

Hi there, What are the 10T anti armor options? What I mean by this is legitimate models or combos that can punch through Armor +2 or more. Just to be clear I'm not asking for a list of models that ignore armor, I'm asking for viable options for consistency in punching through armor. For example I don't really like having the Lone Swordsman on this list simply because he only ignores models on a trigger which is not built in, so that's pretty inconsistent. So far the only viable options I've found are: 1) Hitting things really, really hard for 5+ damage so that Armor practically doesn't matter using Recalled Training or free focus 2) Kang with Hard Worker Is there something I'm missing? Coming from Ressers where spirits have ignoring armor everywhere, I'm a bit spoiled it seems

You're pretty much spot on, Vasilisa is awful for her points, just leave her at home. Some people do silly slingshot tactics with her and stitched or coryphee but the amount of investment needed and how squishy and useless Vasilisa is otherwise completely undermines this tactic's usefulness in my opinion. Seriously, you'll never need her. Just leave her at home.

McMourning Crews tend to require McMourning in order to not fall apart. If you neuter McMourning, you typically put yourself at a strong advantage as your opponent can no longer missile him into outer portions of your crew, killing your weaker models and summoning Flesh Constructs off of them. Luckily his low Df/Wp makes this pretty easy. You can paralyze him, you can hit him with high weak damage, you can use a Hanged to half his wounds and prevent him from healing. Just make sure you can kill him dead. If you leave him alive, he will likely heal back 5 wounds if he gets to activate.

So Obsidian Oni seem pretty spectacular once some burning is on the enemy crew. What is the best way to get some (consistent! as in not on a suit, but built in) Burning in 10T, aside from Mei Feng? High River Monks are pretty terrible so I don't think I'd ever take them. Kamaitachi can be pretty reliable in spreading a point of burning, but this requires putting it in danger (6" range) and discarding a card, which I'd prefer not to do. Sensei Yu has better things to do than walk and hit something for Burning +1 Komainu seem pretty good for this as long as you can keep them near an ancestor. However, the Burning competes with Slow and most of the time I'm afraid I'd prefer the slow anyway. Kang has better things to do than shoot Burning. Dawn Serpent is super expensive and can't shoot burning very far, I never liked it much for its cost. I might be able to be convinced, but I doubt it. Freikorps Specialist is super expensive as well and the Df4 and Wd8 really pushes me away from taking it. I suppose if getting burning was easy, Obsidian Oni would be pretty broken so maybe this is for the best, but either way - how do you prefer to get it on the enemy?

"Curse of the First Traitor: Damage flips against other models within (aura)4 gain +." I believe this would fall under Exhibit A

So for example, does Hayreddin get plus flips to damage against the Seishin if he attacks it? The effect does not affect the Seishin technically, it affects Hayreddin's damage flip.

Hayreddin stands near a Seishin. Seishin takes 1 damage from something. Does Hayreddin gain 1 vitality from this? Essentially is the Seishin not counted for the aura even though the aura doesn't actually affect the Seishin at all? Hayreddin: "Once per Turn, when another model within (aura)4 suffers damage, this model gains the following Condition until the end of the game: "Vitality +1" Seishin: "Only Aether: This model is immune to the effects of (aura) generated by other models."

It'll help if we know what a typical list looks like for you. Ashes & Dust shouldn't be too damaging for Ressers. With a Walk-Charge it has very very little chance of even killing a full wound Belle without a super lucky damage flip. Aside from that, there are other ways to stop him. Kirai can fling Izamu 3" away from him for 3 attacks while Ashes himself can't do much back against Armor +2. Spirit Molly can summon a Night Terror in base contact with it which forces it to waste 1-2 AP on disengaging strikes or 2 AP killing it. Horror Molly can do the usual Punk Zombie summon which really damages Ashes & Dust. McMourning rips apart the Ashen Core because he ignores all of it's defenses. Keep in mind this is a 13 stone model with only 9 wounds and no defensive abilities. Once it dies, send something that ignores armor against the core (or just hit it 6 times with anything) and you're done. Even better if you can do that AFTER they combine but before the end of the turn. It's not the end of the world, even if it might be tough

This is partially to ask for some comments, partially to explain my list building process, and partially to just rant and unify the jumbled ideas in my head So typically I make my lists by setting up a "core" of models which are strong with the master and then leaving the last 10-20 stones to build towards schemes and strat (typically these are just interchanging Belles, Necropunks, and Crooked men, but occasionally something else). For Kirai, it goes something like: -- Kirai, Bloody Shears, Swirling Spirits Graveyard Spirit Izamu, Spirit Beacon Carrion Emmisary, Spirit Conflux Belle Cache: at least 6 -- This gives me 15 ss remaining. I want at the very least 7 activations, preferably 8, so this is the perfect amount to have left over. With these stones I can get: 3x Belles/Crooked Men/Necropunks:(B/C/N for short) according to schemea Night Terror, B/C/N, 6-7ss model: This is for when I want something special from a higher cost model. This can be for Hayreddin, Forgotten Marshal, Jaakuna, Freikorps Trapper, etc 6ss, 6ss, Night Terror: Not sure when I would use this, but it's a possibility. 7ss, 7-8ss: Not sure when I would use this, but it's a possibility. 8-9ss model, Night Terror, Night Terror: This would be for things like Anna Lovelace, Envy, Lust, Philip, Yin, Datsue while still keeping up my activation control and having some Night Terrors to summon off of. -- My current conundrum is trying to make this list work for Show of Force, which of course shows up in about 40-50% of games. My only current idea is Anna Lovelace with Necrotic Preparations and Unnerving Aura, and a Night Terror. Not exactly the best though. I don't like Datsue so if possible I'd rather not use her. Thanks for hearing me out!

Thanks for the replies, you made some good points. With all due respect though, I remain unconvinced. Simply because of the 9ss cost, Datsue remains an expected underperformer. Theres a lot of "she can" for Datsue, and not a lot of "she is" or "she will". She can be survivable, then again, your opponent could have high accuracy Ca actions, so she may not. She can eat a 10 out of your opponent's hand with Terrifying, then again, your opponent could have a 6 in hand, so she may not. She can summon a Gaki or Onryo, but then again, it's going to require high cards, lucky flips, or leaving enemy models with 1-2 wounds and hoping you can hit - so she may not. She can get free Seishin, or she might need to cheat an 8 from her hand - so she might not. Her armor ignore can be useful, but her damage track is pretty bad anyway and not everyone has armor, so it may not. With Anna you KNOW you're getting value. I know I'm getting a free card to cycle, I know I'm getting a strong Ca attack, I know I'm getting a fairly survivable model. I know I'm getting a pretty solid push action. She *can* also screw with enemy pushing and placing but that's mostly gravy (and pretty strong gravy!). With Izamu you KNOW you're getting a moderately survivable beatstick, provided you can speed him up and provided you can stay clear of Armor-ignoring high damage attacks. With Philip you KNOW you're getting a powerful card cycling action and some anti-scheme running. You don't really get that with Datsue. Most games I've played with her (around 8-10 ish at this point I think) I deploy her thinking "oh, I guess she'll walk around and summon a bit, then... something? The only time I get legitimately strong use out of her is during Interference where she can engage enemies with Seishin, or when I need to put 4 wounds on an enemy with Armor +2.

Three Flesh Constructs, Three - Four Canine remains should typically be plenty. Most games I end up with 2 Flesh Constructs and no Canines

So lately I've been taking Datsue in a lot of my lists, and the more I do this the more I think that this model isn't actually worth the ss it costs, for the following reasons: 1) It costs 9-10 ss (assuming Spirit Whispers and potentially Spirit Beacon). For this cost you can get Anna Lovelace. For this cost you can get Philip with Take Back the Night. For this cost you can get Izamu. 2) Datsue's damage output is awful. Her melee attack does a pretty mediocre 2/3/4, and even though it ignores armor that won't make much of a difference unless going against models which are Armor 2 or more. Weighed Sins is even worse with a 1/2/6, basically requiring a focus and a high card from hand (if not 2) to get that tasty 6. But if you don't start within 8" of the enemy and have the high cards to spare, it's not worth it. And although she can technically get positive flips from Adversary, she doesn't have enough AP to make full use of it, so she requires support from Kirai or another model to use AP to apply the condition before Datsue's activation. The trigger on her melee is also not built in, requiring a stone or lucky flip just to take an attack that will likely only cause one extra damage. 3) Summoning a Seishin costs an 8. The Seishin is nice for blocking up the enemy, but so many Resser actions already require that card. The Emmisary wants a 7, every Necropunk wants a 7, Sybelle wants an 8 (for molly), Kirai wants a 6, plus you want anything from 7's to 13's for summoning. Often you won't get as many medium - high cards as you need for all of these. 4) The other action on spirit whispers is usually a trap. If you take this (1) action, you don't have enough AP to do anything useful other than ping something for adversary or drop a scheme marker. 5) She's not durable. Sure Terrifying(All) and Incorporeal *might* mitigate a ton of damage, but it's just as likely that your opponent will pass or cheat the terrifying duel (most models only need a 6) and chunk Datsue for half her health or more with a single cast. She's also super vulnerable to blasts and pulses and only has 5 WP. The discard 2 cards thing is nice, but consider your opponent just killed a 9 or 10 point model if that ever happens. 6) Seishin are really hit or miss. Most games, they accomplish nothing other than a bit of activation control (but not really since for Datsue's price you can hire 2 models easily) and soaking an attack to prevent a charge. All of the above can be accomplished with the Carrion Emmisary. One out of every 5 games, getting the blast immunity might actually help (problem is doing this kills an activation at the top of the turn and makes it your opponent's turn to activate, so you let go of some momentum). 7) Weigh Sins is really hit or miss. The summoning is great! But the setup is annoying at least and a trap at most. You need to reduce a model to 1-2 wounds and thenot kill it with weigh sins. This can go wrong in so many ways (like flipping too much damage on the setup attack and killing the target, or spending a stone for the tome on her melee attack and then miss either that or the weigh sins. When this works it's great, but those instances are few and far between and usually cost some high cards and some setup. Don't get me wrong, she's not bad. But she really competes for cards and doesn't really do much useful herself other than summon Seishin. I keep hearing that Datsue is almost auto-take good and I just don't see that.

Pretty straight forward question. Moonlighting states: "If a living or undead model within (Aura)8 is killed by the poison condition, this model may summon one Canine Remains into base contact with that model before it is removed" 1) McMourning is Living 2) McMourning is within (Aura)8 of himself at the time of death. 3) McMourning is still on the board at the time that the canine remains would be summoned. Does this work?

Do people take this upgrade? I've been taking it regularly with Molly and it continually results in her just keeping up her Terrifying (12) because I nearly always use a (0) action for a free (1) action on a friendly spirit, and I often would rather stone+summon with a 9+ than spend a stone and that card on a reactivation. Tear being 3ss, I don't think that price is nearly worth it just for Terr(12). I've been toying with using the Grave Spirit or a Night Terror for an extra early game activation and some tankiness/scheme denial instead. What do you guys think? My usual list is tweaked from: Molly, Forgotten Path, Tear, 6 Cache Emissary, Carrion Upgrade Sybelle, Bleeder Lash Datsue Ba, Spirit Whispers Belle Belle Crooked Man

What to people think of this scheme? I think it's not a very strong take for our faction that enjoys lots of minions and not many extraneous upgrades, but regardless we have to be prepared to defend against it. Which Henchmen and Enforcers are our best models for this? What are the best upgrades to take on them without wasting points?

Can I come from out of state? Also is painting required?

So if Datsue Ba summons the Seishin up the board (by walking before summoning 6" up, for example), then Hayreddin can charge it to move 8" and all but guarantee the kill (unless the black joker comes up). So Datsue Ba can walk, summon, and then weigh sins on a nearby Necropunk, Guild Autopsy, or Flesh Construct (all of which will heal the damage back). This way Heyreddin will have Vitality +2 by the end of the first turn, just as long as the black joker doesn't come up on one of 3 damage flips.

~You can't summon a Seishin off of another Seishin I believe, and Heyreddin can only get the Vitality from damaging once per turn, so this would actually cap at 2 Vitality. You could potentially get 3, but it would require killing both Kirai's and Datsue Ba's Seishin, which I think is a bad idea. Still, that is something I didn't think of, fantastic!~ EDIT: Nevermind, this doesn't work alone. Seishin have an ability that makes them immune to the Auras of other models, so you cannot gain Vitality by damaging them. Also as a side note, they are immune to the +damage aura, so you will need to cheat a good difference in order to secure a straight flip and make sure you get at least moderate damage. So in conclusion, killing a Seishin can get you an additional point of Vitality on first turn, but not the "once per turn" one

In my opinion, Heyreddin has a lot of potential as a scheme runner hunter and late game fighter or scheme runner. With flight, a Wk of 6, a Cg of 8(+2" melee), Ml 6 with a decent damage track, Sh 6 with a double damage flip, and a built in positive flip to nearly everything he can do. Resilience wise, he has great stats, but not many defensive abilities, further encouraging using him on the sidelines while threats still remain on the board. Now, the best thing you can do with him in my opinion, is to try to charge up his (0) action to Vitality +2 by the time he activates on the second turn. This way, on second turn, he can (0) action to place within 6" (+1.1" base) and then either charge 10", walk 6" and shoot, shoot twice, or focus and shoot. This gives him an incredible threat range of up to 17", ignoring terrain. So now the question becomes, what is both the easiest way, and the way to waste the least amount of AP or SS, to charge his Vitality condition twice on the first two turns? Keep in mind you want to keep him pretty far away from the core of your crew so your opponent can't shoot you up. So you'll want him to be *barely* in range of whatever you will be damaging on the first turn to give him Vitality +1. For Kirai and Nicodem, this is easy, as a quick summon will damage the summoned model and satisfy the condition for Vitality +1. For others, it may be a tiny bit more difficult, needing to waste an AP attacking something of your own with a cheap model. On second turn, you need to do something similar again, damaging a friendly (of if you're lucky, enemy) within 4" of Hayreddin. So far, my best idea is to have a Flesh Construct and Guild Autopsy. A flesh construct doesn't mind walking twice on the first turn to get into position anyway, and won't suffer much from enemies getting a positive flip against it. The guild autopsy can shoot a relenting Flesh construct to do (hopefully) 1 damage that will be healed back at the end of the turn anyway. The only problem with this plan is that it forces you to use an activation on the Guild Autopsy (which is potentially a waste of momentum on second turn) before you activate either Hayreddin or the Flesh Construct. The upside is that these two models can fit into any crew, especially in strategies like Reconnoiter or Turf War. Anyone have a good idea of how to Supercharge Heyreddin? Post any ideas you have here!

Will there be a sign up? I'm very interested

It needed to be changed because fuck Gremlins. They had way too easy of a time scoring on this and Distract by out activating and speed.

RETURNING SCHEMES: Take Prisoner - This scheme has been kept entirely the same. Covert Breakthrough - Modified Breakthrough - Exactly the same as Breakthrough before, but you cannot reveal it for an easy 3rd VP. Detonate Charges - Modified Plant Explosives - Exactly the same as before, but if only 1 scheme marker was "exploded", it caps at 2 VP Frame For Murder - Modified Frame For Murder - Same as before, but now 1 VP is for the death, 1 VP for being killed by a Master/Hench, and 1 if it happens by Turn 3 A Quick Murder - Modified Murder Protege - Same as before, but now 2 VP for the kill and 1 if it happens by Turn 3 Set Up - Modified Spring the Trap - Same as before, but you select any Master/Henchman/Enforcer model at the beginning of the game to spring on Undercover Entourage - Modified Entourage & Bodyguard - Works just like Entourage before, but the 3rd VP comes from being at greater than half wounds (and on the enemy half of the table) rather than having the scheme revealed. Hunting Party - Modified Make them Suffer - Same as before, but now Henchmen/Enforcers score on kills, not Masters/Henchmen Exhaust their Forces - Modified Cursed Object - Peons Cannot receive or give the condition, you give the condition within 1" instead of engagement, giving the condition to a model who is already activated is a (2) action, and removing the condition is now just a (1) action while not engaged, but is NOT AN INTERACT ACTION. (This means Don't Mind Me does not help you get rid of it while engaged) Catch and Release - Modified Distract - Peons Cannot receive or give the condition, you give the condition within 1" instead of engagement, and removing the condition is now just a (2) action while not engaged, but is NOT AN INTERACT ACTION. (This means Don't Mind Me does not help you get rid of it while engaged) Neutralize the Leader - Modified Assassinate - Score 1 VP if you bring your opponent's master to half wounds. Score 2 VP if your opponent's master ever leaves play. - I love this scheme. It is such a better version of Assassinate. It allows for partial completion so it is much less all-or-nothing, and it allows for bury effects to have a more important role in winning the game. For those complaining about Levi, f*ck Levi. You have 6 other masters in your faction, learn to play two of them. You even have Hannah who is a goddess at scoring this scheme on an enemy master. NEW SCHEMES: Convict Labor - Spiritual Successor to A Line In The Sand - You now score on this every turn after first rather than at the end. You need 3 scheme markers within 2" of the centerline to score, and these markers cannot be within 2" of another friendly scheme marker or an enemy model. - I like this. It means crews with strong marker placement abilities don't automatically get 3VP from this by stuffing the centerline with 7 markers by turn 4, because you can deny during the course of the game. Also crews without scheme placement abilities have an easier time with this because the markers can be within 2" of the centerline. Inspection - Spiritual Successor to Outflank - At the end of every turn after the first, score 1 VP if you have a non-peon model within 4" of the point where the centerline meets the table edge. - I love this. They fixed Outflank. You no longer need to keep enemies away from your model, you no longer need to reveal it at the beginning to get full points, and you no longer need to stand directly on the centerline. Now, that doesn't mean this is easy. You still need to survive at opposite sides of the board for the majority of the game! Leave Your Mark - Spiritual Successor to Protect Territory (Barely) - At the end of every turn, for 1 VP remove a scheme marker more than 6" from the center of the table on the opponent's side and not within 4" of a non-peon enemy. - Very interesting. By throwing a marker deep into enemy lines, you can score once per turn. Be very careful though, this scheme allows for a LOT of counterplay, and while it may be sometimes easy to score on, other times it will be nearly impossible. Mark for Death - Spiritual Successor to Vendetta (Barely) - Use a (1) interact action while engaged to "Mark" an enemy non-peon. Then at any point if that enemy leaves play, you score 1 VP. - I'm loving this scheme too. It slows down the killing and forces you to pause to mark in order to score VP. The nuances of scoring this scheme will become apparent as you play with it more, I'm sure. For example, making a charge is strange because you won't be able to mark before hand. Models with Nimble or Lure effects are going to be strong in this scheme. Show Of Force - BRAND NEW! - At the end of each turn, if you have equal to or more non-zero-cost upgrades on non-master models within 6" of the center of the board than your opponent does, you earn 1 VP. - Wow. This is cool. It adds a Turf War style objective to any strategy. As long as this is in the pool, you have to keep upgrades in mind, even if you're not taking it yourself. Search The Ruins - BRAND NEW! - At the end of the game, earn 2 VP if you have at least 3 scheme markers within 6" of the center. If at least two of these are on the opponent's side of the table, earn 1 more VP. - A second scheme that adds a Turf War to any strategy. I like it. Public Demonstration - BRAND NEW! - Note 3 minion models with a combined cost of at least 15 SS. At the end of any turn, reveal to score 1 VP for each of these minions within 4" of an enemy Master/Henchman/Enforcer. - This is so cool. It really adds an interesting layer to the game - NOT wanting Henchmen and Enforcers! It also has multiple ways to go about it - do you take 3 sturdy minions to survive long enough to score? Or do you take 3 fast minions to run up and quickly score in a suicide run? Occupy Their Turf - BRAND NEW! - Reveal this scheme at the end of any turn and score 1 VP for each minion model more than 10" away from the centerline on your opponent's side. - Interesting, another scheme that requires careful crew construction and allows for lots of partial scoring and counterplay. A MOMENT OF SILENCE FOR THOSE WHO HAVE FALLEN: A Line in the Sand: The "I have scheme marker tricks" scheme. You pretty much knew going in if you could get 100%, or 0%. Good Riddance. Protect Territory: The "I score 3 VP" scheme. Everyone took this, all the time. It was way too easy. Good Riddance. Outflank: The "I want to play 3 VP down" scheme. Terrible scheme, way too hard, took too many resources. Too easy to deny. Good Riddance. Plant Evidence: The "I like an easy Breakthrough" scheme. It really was just that, an easier version of Breakthrough. Pointless. Good Riddance. Vendetta: The "I hope this goes well for me" scheme. You either did something dirty with an Austringer or hoped for your opponent's ignorant cooperation. Good Riddance. Deliver a Message: The "All or nothing" scheme. You either played 1 VP down, or hoped that your opponent couldn't stop you, knowing full well what you were trying to accomplish. Good Riddance. Power Ritual:The "Terrain dependent -> score 3 VP" scheme. See Protect Territory (as long as it was flank or corner deployment). Good Riddance. A NOTE ON NOT EVER REVEALING SCHEMES: This. Is. Amazing. I love this. I'm sick and tired of every pool including the likes of ALitS, Protect Territory, Power Ritual, Breakthrough, Plant Evidence - "Always reveal" schemes that make the game much more open and gives little room for trickery. And others like Deliver a Message and Murder Protege which basically leave you at a disadvantage if you DON'T reveal them. Having every scheme unrevealed - gives you a reason to leave things unrevealed. Your opponent can't use process of elimination to know that in a pool of Bodyguard, Protect Territory, Plant Explosives, and Outflank, your unrevealed scheme is almost definitely Plant Explosives, defeating the purpose in having a hidden scheme in the first place. A NOTE ON PARTIAL CREDIT: Almost all the schemes now have the chance to get "partial credit", and in general the scheme pools encourage going for a win and denying your enemy more than going for 10 VP yourself. I expect it will be much rarer to see results like 10-8 and we will be seeing more results like 6-4. A NOTE ON AREAS OF CONFLICT: More Schemes now encourage different "Areas of Conflict." In the past, the Strategy usually defined where the action will happen, and then for schemes the players would have to play around that. For example, Turf War would present you with "Stay in the middle" and you would score for protect territory and power ritual by staying out of that area where there aren't many scary enemies. Now, Schemes play a much more pivotal role as far as "zones" where conflict should be expected. Imagine Headhunter with Show Of Force and Search the Ruins in the pool (as well as Convict Labor). This completely eliminates any kind of "Turtling" that can happen (which I see often in these schemes that don't push you to control the board). If you don't come out of your shell, you could be giving up a 6 VP advantage. A lot of interesting combinations come from this. There's the schemes just mentioned that encourage moving to the middle, theres ones like Occupy their Turf that encourage moving a large force to the enemy side, or Leave your mark that pushes you there early. Inspection makes the corners potential conflict zones. A REVIEW OF THE SCHEMES OFTEN AVAILABLE: Always: Convict Labor (Mod ALitS) Doubles: Take Prisoner Rams: Show Of Force (Mini Turf War with Upgrades) Crows: Hunting Party (Mod Make Them Suffer) Tomes: Leave Your Mark (Place markers deep into enemy territory) Masks: Exhaust Their Forces (Mod Cursed Object) Get used to these schemes. Especially Convict Labor - it is always available, and unlike ALitS is more easily accomplished by most generic crews. Then we have the other five. In the past we had: Bodyguard -> Never Take Assassinate -> Player's Choice, but usually not. Protect Territory -> Always Take Breakthrough -> Almost Always Take Distract -> Depends on your faction/crew. None of these really changed your crew composition. Assassinate makes you save a few stones for defending your master, and maybe Breakthrough encourages you to get a model or two that can move around enemy lines. But aside from that, nothing changes. Compare that to now. Take Prisoner is a really interesting one that encourages quickness, out-activation, tankiness, lures, or something of the sort. Show of force encourages pushes and Henchmen/Enforcers with upgrades (and justifies upgrade bloat!). Hunting Party encourages a balance of Henchmen+Enforcers vs Minions +Peons. Leave your Mark encourages speed like Breakthrough before it. Exhaust Their Forces means you want some sort of pushes and control. All of these things encourage different things, and will break up the monotony of "Take Protect Territory and Breakthrough, declare both, try for 6 VP".

Who else in this game has bury mechanics on enemies? Tara + Friends, Aionus, Death Marshals, Anna Lovelace, Hannah. Is that it?