moxypoo

I tend to choose masters entirely based on whether I enjoy how they play (although having an awesome model doesn’t hurt!). Coming from a background in Magic the Gathering, I like to group masters into three categories. Aggro. Aggressive masters tend to focus on putting lots of damage on the enemy crew. Control. These masters focus on altering the flow of the game through buffs or debuffs or (in)directly controlling enemy models. Combo. These masters have an unorthodox playstyle or use convoluted combinations to create dramatic, powerful effects. Obviously, all masters will be a combination of those three categories, though I would argue that each master has one predominant category that he/she/it fits into. Some masters can probably even change their predominant category depending on which upgrades they take (Yan Lo comes to mind here). I tend to enjoy combo oriented masters the most, with control being my second favorite class. I like playing very unorthodox playstyles and setting up situations where it’s extremely difficult or impossible for my opponent to win as opposed to killing all their models.

That's how we've always played it for what it's worth. I think the new ruling supports this as well. Edit: Justin Ninja'ed me and I was wrong! Thanks for the explanation.

Justin, you can't make me choose just one thing, because there are a whole lot of things about this game that I like. Favorite models is probably the easiest: Original metal Teddy and Baby Kade were the models that first got me looking at the game. Simulacrum 29 is amazing; now that's how you make a Frankenstein monster! With the new plastics, I absolutely love the new Leveticus sculpt (he's so menacing!) and the new Abominations. I distinctly remember my reaction to seeing the artwork for the first time - I said something like: "Chainsaws for hands and and a giant bear trap for a torso?! That's so f***ing cool! Take all my money!" When the new plastic Death Marshals came out I had a pretty similar reaction; they remain one of the very few models I've bought simply to paint. The most incredible thing about the game itself is the onion-like layers of tactical depth, in my opinion. There's a poker element with the control hand, bluffing elements with asymmetrical (and possibly hidden) objectives, multiple levels of tactical considerations with the interactions between friendly and/or enemy models, many considerations when hiring a crew, and probably even more things that I'm missing. The background is also amazing in my opinion - I think Wyrd has managed to create a very unique setting and characters by combining inspiration from a huge variety of sources. The easter eggs/real world references such as Coppelius, Collodi, Sue, and Hamelin are also fun too! Overall, my favorite thing about Malifaux is that it's the complete package - great background, great models, great balance, and great rules.

My main opponent uses Imbued Energy very often, and it provides serious disincentive to kill the upgraded model. As a few people have mentioned, drawing 4 extra cards is a really big deal. During our games, I'm always asking myself whether it's better to kill the Imbued model and give my opponent a superior hand or to let the model run rampant. It's a really tough choice, especially when Imbued Energies is on something like Howard or a Rail Golem. I play Outcasts, and I use Oathkeeper almost every chance I get. The extra AP in a critical turn is just that good. Plus your opponent will often forget about the potential extra AP and make a mistake, such as getting too close to Bishop/Taelor/etc.

I'm looking forward to trying out the Karina/Nix summoning trick next time I play Tara. When I'm using Nix in his native crew, I tend to use him as a toolbox since he does so many things. In my opinion, he's sort of a jack-of-all-trades, master of none type of model. He's pretty good at getting places with incorporeal, tough to kill against non-Ca models, deals a moderate amount of damage, and has a nice level of synergy with the crew overall (i.e. spreading blight and making interact actions tough). When it comes to his activation during the turn, I try to identify exactly what I need most at that point - damage, Blight, or chasing down a scheme runner - and send Nix to perform that task. I also agree with Ausplosions that Nix is a great model to carry Infectious Melodies. Overall, he's a great model and it's really rare that I'd run Hamelin without his faithful dog.

This thread makes me all sorts of happy. Seconded. For my own contribution - Tara plus the Viks would be a lot of fun. Power up Vik of Blood with all the Sisters buffs, then Tara gives her Fast and Buries her. Tara reactivates and throws Super Saiyan Viktoria of Blood into the enemy crew. Delicious.

That looks like a great list to learn Jack's play style, and I think you'll have a lot of fun with it! You'll get a sampling of everything Jack's crew can do and start to learn all the complex combos. Something you may want to consider is giving Jack the Betrayer upgrade in lieu of Fearful Whispers on Montressor. Since you've got 2 Guilty and the Curses, you can give lots of enemy models Tormented which means they'll all consider Jack Terrifying. Then just keep Lady Liega near Jack and watch him be essentially immortal! Imagine Lady J trying to attack Jack and not being able to cheat the Terrifying duel - that's a huge gamble.

Ugh. That reminds me to never use a Desolation Engine against Marcus... To answer the original question: It really depends. I'll start with the DE if we flip Turf War or there are a lot of schemes that require crews to cluster up. It's not a particularly good scheme runner - you want it in melee. If you can guarantee getting it into melee, it can cause a huge amount of damage and disruption. The DE is the kind of model your opponent can't ignore, but it's not incredibly difficult to kill. If you suspect the DE will tie up or kill a number of enemy models, then it's usually a good hire. However, since it is so expensive, you need to weigh it against having multiple cheaper models (and therefore more activations). In my opinion, it's really scheme/strategy dependent. I wouldn't hire the DE for something like Reconnoiter or Stake a Claim, but would consider hiring it for Turf War and Reckoning. As for summoning the DE - it's pretty rare that an experienced opponent will let 4 Abominations that are close to each other live long enough to summon a DE. As the DE player you really need to decide whether you want greatly enhanced damage output or more activations and card draw. In my experience, this is really dependent on what I need at the time.

I have to echo HD's points from the post above mine! 35SS isn't the most balanced (especially when you include summoners), but I've found it's an excellent game size for learning a new master. Another piece of advice I give players who are new to the game or to a master is to start out with a master's thematic crew. Themed models tend to have similar tricks and playstyle. Plus, they generally revolve around a specific keyword. Once you get the mechanics of the crew down, then definitely branch out into other out of theme models! P.S. Definitely try out Lady Liega - keep her alive and near the action and your opponent will be having fits.

Quoted for truth. I think the original point was that killing a Waif reduces the area in which Leveticus can unbury at the end of turn, thereby reducing his mobility. In my opinion, one of the most interesting challenges when playing M2E Leveticus is finding a good balance between aggression and defensiveness with the Waifs. Sometimes, it's really useful to bait an enemy model into a bad position using a Waif, but others you need the Waif in a safe, secure spot for a guaranteed unburying.

This is a good question. In M1.5E there was something about being able to climb partially up an elevated piece of terrain and marking where the model stopped. My group just continued this practice into M2E. But now that I think about it, we've probably been playing this incorrectly, since I can't think of anything in the M2E rulebook that lets you move partially up an elevation and stop.

Awesome stuff! I really like how you achieved a lot of depth on LCB's skin. Did you use lots of washes to get that effect?

I have an absolute blast playing with the Viks, but I can't say the same for my opponents! Slicing Sonnia, Hopkins, and Fransico into bite size chunks in one chain activation won't make you too many friends. I have used the Viks to teach new players the game since they have the most straight forward playstyle of any master I own. However, I do play them to a very low level in intro/beginner games (i.e. walk, charge, attack, maybe use the whirlwind trigger or the (2) Dragon actions once during the game). It's rare that I'll go after my opponent's master either. So far, none of people I've brought in with the Viks have been bothered by the first game.

Maybe I should soften my terminology and say "almost none" or "almost all" instead. Although I am confused that you use the example of Misaki having no synergy with her crew beyond a generic upgrade to counter my point. It seems that Misaki fits into the "almost no" support category pretty well. So much win! There have to be some other funny crews like this out there.

I've been playing Jack the last few weeks, and this is my experience too. Liega is Priority #1 for my opponents. Rathnard gives some good advice here - keep her out of LOS and/or in cover and make heavy use of defensive stance. You can also use her as bait if you want to draw out an important enemy model. I've had success running her right up to an enemy heavy hitter to lock it down, knowing that I'll lose her in the near future.

I’ll preface this post with saying that I haven’t played against the Brewmaster since he was finalized, but I did play with/against him a few times very late in the beta. I would not consider those games to be NPEs, though I can see how some people would see them as such. Back when I played Magic, I was a big combo/control player, because I found a lot of enjoyment in locking my opponent down and then instantly winning. My opponents didn’t always find this fun, however. I have a similar mentality when playing Malifaux and other skirmish/wargames. Most of my enjoyment comes from trying to out-think and outplay my opponent, so I view playing aginst difficult control masters as an interesting challenge to overcome rather than an NPE. My favorite thing about Malifaux is that how you play matters more than what you play. Every master can be overcome; you just have to outplay or out-think your opponent. The moral of this story is that NPE is completely subjective – I would be disappointed if masters like the Brewmaster didn’t exist. TL;DR: I never found the Brewmaster to be an NPE, because I like the challenge of playing against unorthodox masters.

I think we're just arguing level of amplitude of various synergies here. Leveticus and Tara can absolutely offer synergy to their thematic crew, and I take full advantage of those synergies when I use those masters. The point that I'm trying to make is that not all synergies exist on the same level. Running Leveticus and being unable to use Entropic Demise is not the same as running Hoffman without being able to use Machine Puppet. That's the reason I categorized the masters like I did. They offer different levels of synergy to their thematic crews; therefore, some masters can more easily go out of theme than others. There are no masters that don't have at least some synergy with their basic crew, which I think exemplifies the superior design of Malifaux. This is a really good question, and I'd be really interested to hear thoughts on this. I can't think of any off the top of my head.

I really like this! There are definitely some masters who seem to like spinning elaborate webs where this idea would fit perfectly. Seems like you could work this into a campaign somehow... @OP: Don't let my categorizations dissuade you from trying any models you want with your chosen master! I like to have things dissected and categorized; just the way my mind works.

I'll agree with everyone else and say that you can absolutely play in theme and still make a strong list. It may not be the absolutely optimal list, but as long as you play well, you'll always be competitive. I think one of the main draws to this game is that you can generally take whatever models you like the look of and still compete as long as you play well. In my mind there are 3 classes of masters in terms of theme: 1. Masters such as Zoraida, Tara, and Leveticus. This class either supports any model they hire (through Obey, giving models Fast/Slow, etc.) or gives absolutely no support to their crew. Either way you can hire any model and do well. In my experience, it's usually completely up to the player whether they want to run in or out of theme when playing a master like this. 2. Masters such as Jacob Lynch, Yan Lo, or Jack Daw who have some synergies with a certain key word or model type but don't require that synergy to function. For example, Lynch has more options when his crew can help him spread Brilliance, but he'll still work well with non-Darkened crews. Jack and Yan Lo have synergy with Tormented and Ancestors, respectively, but they can still function fine without them. Most crews I've seen with this class of master run mostly in theme models along with a few out of theme models. 3. Masters such as Collodi, Hoffman, or Nicodem who have very strong ties to a certain model type or characteristic. These masters generally need some of their in theme models to run efficiently. Trying to run Collodi without puppets or Hoffman without constructs usually doesn't go as well as running an in theme crew. I think most masters are probably in class 2, and the masters that fall into the more extreme categories are fairly rare. That said, I almost always play in theme unless I'm trying out some crazy combo I cooked up. My crews are all painted in a particular theme, so I like to see them all together on the tabletop!

Easy solution - Leveticus. All your Armor means nothing Ramos!! Here's my real response: My main opponent (CougDyver on these forums) is an excellent Ramos player, and I've learned a few tricks to take him on. 1. Kill key lynchpins and don't get bogged down in Steam Arachnids. Ramos generally needs a couple heavy hitters such as Joss to get the summoning engine going. In addition the Spiders barely have any damage output, so Joss/Howard/etc. are there to do the real damage in the crew. The Brass Arachnid is a high priority target for its ability to hand out reactivate, while Joss should be killed given the opportunity. 2. This is a continuation of point 1. There are few masters (Hamelin certainly, maybe Nicodem and the Dreamer too) who can win an attrition war against Ramos. For the most part, you should avoid trying to focus on killing spiders unless absolutely necessary. Spending too many AP unnecessarily fighting spiders can quickly lose you the game. Target spiders holding your key models in place or ones that are running to drop scheme markers. Do your best to avoid any others. 3. If you plan to kill Ramos, go all out. Don't try to nickel and dime him to death, because his Armor +2 and innate healing ability will keep him topped off in Wds. I generally don't try to take out the man himself unless he's particularly vulnerable. However, if he's alone or otherwise exposed I'll bring all my force to bear on him. 4. Bring models that can ignore armor in some way. This is generally good advice against most Arcanist masters but especially against Ramos. Models with Armor +2 generally have lower than average Wds to compensate, so ignoring that Armor makes them much softer than they should be for their cost. Conclusion: Ramos is not overpowered and certainly not to the level pre-patch Hamelin or Dreamer was in M1.5E. However, I do think he's at the top tier of the master power curve along with Leveticus and a few others. He's not easy to fight but few masters are.

I've only played Jack a handful of times, so I'm barely scratching the surface of what he can do. My experience suggests that his crew is all about presenting your opponent very few choices, all of which are bad. That seems to be why his crew isn't "tanky" - you debuff the enemy crew or paralyze them or move them into bad positions so that they can't actually do much to your models. Combined with all the actions Jack's crew performs that makes the opponent discard cards, you can really lock down some enemy models. Once, I managed to drag a bunch of models into b2b with Montressor while keeping Lady Liega close but out of range of any melee attacks. That combo locked down about half of the enemy crew for 3 full turns. Also, requiring a 7 to hit a TN means that you'll flip the required number 50% of them time assuming your deck is perfectly randomized. This combo sounds like a lot of fun and should synergize well with making the opponent discard cards. Definitely have to try this out sometime.

Sorry folks. Didn't make the deadline - real life got in the way again. Good luck to all the competitors!

Dirial is definitely correct. Another thing to consider is that the complexity of masters like Levy, Collodi, and The Dreamer (and Zoraida to an extent) makes them more difficult for the opponent to predict. For example, Lady Justice is really good at hitting things with her sword - as her opponent, you can usually guess pretty accurately that Lady J wants to run up and attack you in melee. The more complex masters generally have more widely varied options which makes it more difficult to determine what they're going to do each turn. I don't think any of the common top tournament masters are overpowered; rather, they're just more difficult to play against if you aren't very familiar with them. Another example: Levy is one of my favorite masters. When I play him against my most frequent opponent we always have very close, tense games, because my opponent is familiar with everything Levy can do. However, when I play Levy against players who haven't seen him (ever or infrequently) I tend to stomp them. This is true of any master, but I find the discrepancies are larger with the more complex masters than the ones who are more straight forward.

Hi Vlad, I'm glad you're finding all the responses helpful, because it's always great to grow the community! One of my friends occasionally plays Rasputina, and something that I've found very useful against her is to eliminate her Ice Mirror targets. Since she's so slow, she often relies on bouncing spells through models like Ice Gamin using her Ice Mirror ability. Eliminating these models can severely reduce her effectiveness by preventing her from being able to target your models until they're right on top of her. Then you can overwhelm her.

You definitely do not need to take the Pariah upgrades to get the best mileage out of Leveticus. His themed crew is generally sufficient to accomplish most strategy and scheme combinations. They aren't the fastest crew so some schemes such as Power Ritual can be tough. However, the Outcast faction has very solid minions and specialist models that you can use to tailor to your objectives. For example, Void Wretches and Ronin (who are surprisingly fast and tough) are solid scheme runners. Ashes and Dust is really an all purpose model that excels in eating enemy scheme runners while being competent to act entirely by itself. In my experience, the Pariah upgrades should be taken when you want to bring in a specific model or combination from another faction. For example, if I think my opponent is going to have only a few expensive models (due to something like Reckoning), I might take Pariah of Bone and To the Earth Return on Leveticus and hire 2 The Hanged so I can efficiently eliminate large targets. Another example is bringing in Joss or the Large Steam Arachnid to generate lots of scrap markers if you're going heavy on the Abomination summoning route. To answer your last question, I think Leveticus can get a lot of mileage out of Abominations and the Desolation Engine. The DE is a huge beatstick with huge damage output. It's not particularly difficult to kill, but you can always make another one. Abominations are easy to kill, but when you mob them together, they can put out a surprisingly large amount of damage (or at least drain cards from your opponent's hand with all the duels they force). Always remember that they remove suits associated with Ca and prevent (0) actions from nearby enemy models! They also allow you to draw lots of cards which is always nice. Essentially, they're hugely annoying and can get out of hand very quickly if your opponent doesn't take time to remove some of them.