Myth

Dreamer's Otherworldly upgrade gives him the ability Playtime, which lets him give a model the following condition for a turn: "Playtime: After dealing damage with an Attack Action, draw 1 card." So... how does this interact with attacks that can deal damage to multiple targets - or multiple times? Basically, does the wording mean, "After an Attack Action deals (any amount of) damage (regardless of how many times it deals damage or how many models were damaged), draw a card" or does it mean, "Whenever an Attack Action deals (any instance of) damage, draw a card (for each instance of damage)"? Some possible scenarios: 1) Tuco is given the condition, and fires his shotgun. With his blasts, he damages three enemies in total - the main target, and two other models hit by the blasts. Does this activate Playtime once (since the damage all happens simultaneously), or three times? 2) A Stitched Together is given the condition, and uses Gamble Your Life. It fails the duel and takes damage. Does this trigger Playtime? In other words, does this count as the Stitched Together dealing damage (to itself), or does it count as the opponent or targeted model as the one dealing damage? 3) Taelor is given the condition, and attacks with Hammerfall. She damages her primary target with the attack itself, and 3 other enemy models fail their Df duels and take damage from the 3" area of damage. Does this activate Playtime once (since it was all from the same attack), or 4 times (since 4 models were damaged) or twice (once for the initial damage from the attack, and once for when models were damage by the other part of the effect)? 4) A Young Nephilim is given the condition, and attacks. After damaging (activating Playtime and drawing a card), it also gets the Blood Frenzy trigger to attack again. If the second attack also hits and damages, does Playtime activate again to draw a second card? 5) If Dreamer was somehow able to hire Samael Hopkins, and give him Playtime, and Samael fired his Custom Revolver and got the Ricochet trigger (which damages a second model), would this activate Playtime once, or twice?

Yeah, this is generally where I've had the most success with her. Having her take part in the front lines of battle will get her killed off awfully quick. If she plays more cautiously, operating more as a counter-charge unit, she often will spend a few turns wasting her good mobility, and while she'll do some damage when she hits, she still tends to get focused on and brought down quickly once in the thick of things. But, especially with schemes/strategies where the enemy is committing only a small force to one side of the other, she really shines. Quickly advancing along the flanks, often out of sight of the main enemy threats, she can very swiftly reach isolated targets and take them out with minimal risk - while also working on schemes herself. And once she is hunting vulnerable models in the back ranks of the enemy, they have to either send stronger models back to deal with her - weakening their board position - or just let her run rampant until she rolls into the main fight to mop things up on the last turn or two of the game. Now, she's still quite expensive - is it worth those 13 points to fill that role? Does her absence weaken the rest of your crew enough that they will be at a disadvantage? That can depend on what Master is being used and what force you are up against. But, similar to how I play Lilith, I like the idea of using her more as an assassin who goes after targets of opportunity, rather than a brute that mixes it up in the main fighting directly.

And, again, it doesn't even have to be bonus actions triggered by my final AP. Any triggered effect or event should be resolved before the next activation starts. If I damage someone with Black Blood, that Black Blood pulse takes place on my turn. If that Black Blood pulse kills another model, that death occurs on my turn. If Bete Noire unburies from that model dying, her appearance occurs on my turn. Etc. Once you've resolved all ongoing activity, then you check to see if the model's activation ends, and move on to the next model to activate.

Yeah, I'd say you don't consider a model's activation to be complete until you have completed any triggered events/actions/effects caused by the model's actions during the activation.

Hmm. If it works the way people are describing, that feels like it might need to be fixed to last through the model's entire move action. Otherwise, I could start flying, fly over enemy models while in the aura, leave the aura while doing so, and then... what happens? I'm now hovering over enemy models (and it was legal to move there), but I no longer have Flight (and it is no longer legal to be there).

She's a tricky one. I think she can definitely work, but having so many points invested in her means you really don't have much room for mistakes with how you play her. Get too aggressive, and she gets killed off before she can really go to town. On the other hand, if you find her the right targets and can put her in the right place at the right time, she can walk through half an opponent's crew, healing back up as she does. If I'm just looking for a big elite model, I'm more likely to take a Mature Nephilim. He's both cheaper and more durable, and much easier to toss in to a general crew. As noted above, Nekima really demands you build a list with her in mind. I haven't had much luck with growth lists, myself. But the things that work well with Nekima, I feel, are having a good number of models to avoid being out-activated, having repositioning and mobility elements to move your crew around, and having a couple other threats that can distract from her presence.

My top picks: 1) Doppelganger 2) Widow Weaver 3) Waldgeists 4) Mr. Graves 5) Illuminated

Yeah, Arcanist's still easily remain the gold standard for useful/awesome upgrades. For myself, I'm glad we got some decent options compared to before, and I think Retribution's Eye and Wings of Darkness will see quite a bit of use. Mimic's Blessing... I'll probably try out a bit. I remain sad the 'on death' abiilty is so incredibly inferior to Imbued Energies. The camouflage ability itself is certainly a nicer boon than Pact, but I think it will tend to work only in very focused builds. Candy with Mimic's Blessing and Useless Duplications can make for a very interesting tank, and I may try building some crews along those lines. The main weakness is that the more things in your crew with Camouflage, the less useful it is, since they can't all delay until the end of the round, so some of them will inevitably get much less use out of it.

I've run him in a Collodi crew without tots. Basically, if you use him to hand out Black Blood to a couple key models, and then just rely on him for his Black Blood Pustule (and the awesome triggers), he remains a very effective model, without the growth abilities needing to come into play at all.

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Yeah, I almost always find myself with better options than Young Nephs. They are certainly fast and killy! But not quite enough in either department to actually feel a reliable threat. Now, how much of a threat should a model be for 6 SS? That's a good question - but if I take a Waldgeist, I know I'm getting a solid utility tank for the points. If I take a Tot, I know I'm getting some objective runners. With Young Nephs, they might make it to combat, where they might trigger a blood frenzy and shred the enemy - or they might, instead, run into something and plink it several times for weak damage. Or they might get blasted from across the field - or spend their turn running close enough to be a threat for next turn, and get counter-charged in the process. I keep wanting to find a way to make them work - the Nephilim Growth list was what drew me to Neverborn in the first place - but while there are a lot of individually cool Nephilim models and uses in M2E, they are hard to make work as a whole, and without that unified list, the Young seem the Nephilim model most likely to fall through the cracks and find themselves without a good home.

I'll chime in with another vote for Guilty. Their (0) push can make them surprisingly mobile when used well, and unlike many objective runners, Hard to Kill (and Df 6) prevents them from being killed off quite so casually, even by elite enemy models.

Note that your model also counts as being engaged, removing their ability to charge or use gun icon attacks. However, unlike the enemy, you may move away freely, since they are not close enough to take disengaging strikes in order to stop you.

That can depend on several factors. I almost always have an Effigy go near the top of the round to hand out an Effigy buff (and usually then Accomplice into someone else). But for the rest of the crew, here are the elements that usually have an impact on things for me: 1) Condition Spread: Notably, if you have the Fated upgrade, Collodi can share a Condition he gives himself with his minions. Whether to go early or late depends on what condition he wants to give out. If you give out Focus or Armor (an option from one of his other upgrades), you usually want to go early in the round, since that fades at end of turn. But if you are giving out Defensive, that lasts until the model's next activation. So I've found that an alternating approach can work well. Turn 1, get your guys in position, and at the end of the round, have Collodi go and hand out Defensive. Then, next turn, have him go early and hand out Focus or Armor, and now your guys basically have a full turn of being double buffed! Alternatively, if Collodi has the Bag of Props upgrade, he can take buffs from his friends. In that case, just reverse things. If he plans to use Focus, have them go first. If he plans to use Defensive, maybe have some go first, some go later, so you can always have it available. 2) AP Control: Collodi likes to take away his opponent's AP. He can hand out Slow quite easily. He can also potentially steal an enemy's first AP on its activation. (Which can potentially cost them two AP if, say, you spend their first action moving somewhere useless, forcing them to spend their next action just getting back in position.) Both those conditions last until the enemy's next activation. So you can wait until later in the round, after your opponent's key models have activated - and then throw out some debuffs on them to ensure that they will be kinda useless for the following turn. Or, if your opponent clearly has one model about to go that is the key to the rest of their plans, going after it early can ruin the rest of the opponent's turn. I don't tend to use Collodi for finishing off models. Instead, he can focus on keeping a lot of the elite enemy models in check, while your other guys finish off less important pieces (or the elite guys after they've been somewhat neutralized by Collodi's conditions.) 3) Positioning: If you are relying on Collodi having his bubble of minions, this is an important element of how he works. I usually don't make it a priority, but more of something to just generally remain aware of. Are your minions close enough to buff, or be used with his abilities? If not, maybe they should go first and get into position. Or, if you are planning to advance Collodi himself, maybe you want to make sure they go first so they can head towards his destination and await his arrival. Also worth noting - Marionnettes have a very minor ability to move a friend around. While not something to spam, it can be a key move late in a round - getting a model just in range to go somewhere important, or pushing a model out of engagement so it can drop scheme markers. So saving one or two Marionnettes for late in a round can yield some nice dividends. There are certainly other elements that will come into play. Do you have a Personal Puppet alive to protect Collodi? If not, you might want to make sure he goes and gets that Condition back online. (Or creates some new puppets for it, if needed.) Of your other models, Vasilisa seems like someone who will want to go early in the round, in order to help move other models into position, and to potentially debuff enemies with her -1 Wp Aura. Effigies and Marionnettes often can simply go when needed, eating up activations and chipping away at the enemy - or simply getting in the way by engaging enemies or blocking pathways. That lets you save until later in the round any heavy hitters you have brought along, rather than have to commit them early and potentially put them at risk.

I don't they are essential, since Coppelius does have other good uses for Eyeballs, including a very solid (0) action heal. If you are running him with Dreamer or Pandora, you probably want to make sure to have Alp summoning as an option on the table. But as a friend for Collodi, I think it would depend on how you are running him. If he is there to be an isolated objective grabber, he probably doesn't need Alps. If you instead are running a crew heavy on giving out Slow and gaining AP advantage, Alps are important. A blister of 3 Alps is probably plenty if you are summoning them entirely via Collodi. If you are starting with a couple of them on the table, on the other hand, they may end up multiplying beyond that if they get into the right position.

Iggy is the only one I'd really recommend in that list. He can do well with several different Neverborn crews, and his low cost makes it easy for him to be worth his points. I'm not a huge fan of Tuco - I've never seen him perform well in a game. Vasilisa brings a lot to the table, but 9 SS for 6 Wds is just so fragile, even with high Df. Spawn Mother and Gupps have their place, but really require committing to a focus on them in order to properly pay off. The Hooded Rider I haven't really seen much in action, and is one I am quite curious about. Extra crew movement can go well with some other Neverborn tricks. His late-game durability is a rarity for Neverborn, and he can bring both utility and a ton of damage to the table once he has become somewhat buffed. But Neverborn already have some other solid options in that price range, so whether he is worth the points over them may be hard to say.

I probably wouldn't normally bring him along, but I can see some possible synergies for him: 1) He brings a fast (potentially Wk 8 with Flight) model that can operate independantly from Collodi's puppet bubble. So while your opponent is dealing with your main force, he can do a lot of work on objectives or harassing isolated enemy models. 2) If he stays in the thick of things and can gain some eye-balls, he can add in some Alps to the fun. Alps actually go quite well with Collodi, since he can hand out Slow rather easily, and can bring along Mannequins who can do the same. And Collodi himself can potential pulse Slow. A Collodi list built around action advantage can be quite strong, and Coppelius can contribute to that in several ways. 3) If you bring him along with On Dreaming Wings, you can potentially have a Nightmare-heavy Collodi crew. The Widow Weaver does well in just about any Neverborn list, and Stitched Together can go nicely with Collodi (especially if they get some healing buffs from an Effigy). All combined, that can give a bit of speed and reach beyond the norm for most of Collodi's friends, and between Coppelius and the Widow, can bring some extra summoning options if desired.

Well, they are only 3 SS models. (Or potentially free summons.) But yeah, I definitely have found them rather disappointing compared to Night Terrors or Guild Hounds. I think they do still have some utility, since they also can offer up healing support. They also fill more fitting in a Pandora list than a Dreamer crew, unless you are focusing on using Surrounded by Nightmares to really bring the pain. But without the speed/offense of Hounds, or the durability of Terrors, they really are little more than speedbumps to the opponent. They've got the potential to get out of control if the enemy does start failing duels and spawning more Alps, but that takes a lot of setup and a lot of luck to make happen - and even then, doesn't really offer much of a payoff.

Yeah, I've been trying to run a Dreamer list focused on summoning Stitched Together (who, when killed, provide scrap for Teddy), and I still don't think I've ever ended up with the ability to get more than one Teddy on the board. So its a possibility, but not a very high one, even if you are working on it.

I don't know about that. I've always considered him a bit of a steal for 8 Soulstones. He has pretty abysmal defense, but 9 Wounds, Regen, Hard to Wound and Terrifying can be a lot to overcome for some crews. Add in some high damage potential with Flurry, a Severe damage of 7, and the bonus of his damage pulse and Paralyze trigger, and I don't think he is particularly overcosted. Now, if you leave him exposed, he will certainly get focused on and taken out quickly. But I consider him a prime choice whenever I bring a crew focusing on maximum threat saturation. The idea is to grab a bunch of effective models in the range of 7-8 Soulstones, go light on upgrades, and just overwhelm the opponent with a lot of scary targets, making it very difficult to choose who to focus on. And the Dreamer can be great for that, since he brings along summoning and cheap totems to eat up activations. Just imagine - you've got the Dreamer in the back summoning to his heart's content. The opponent knows they need to prioritize going after him. But they've got, say, Mr. Graves, the Widow Weaver, a Doppelganger, Bad Juju, and Baby Kade waiting to ambush them along the way. Each of those models presents a sizable threat if they aren't careful. None of them are real easy to take out, especially with Manipulative and Terrifying to deal with - especially with the Widow dropping Web Markers, and Daydreams running around to debuff Willpower. In summary, I think a list focusing on Bad Juju's rebirth mechanism is a totally valid list - but isn't the only role he can play, and as long as you are aware of his vulnerabilities, he can be a bit of a bargain for his price.

I believe the rulebook says that if you are directly immune to a condition, you do not need to take a test for that condition. So in this case, answer number 1. Note that this is only for direct immunity. So, for example, if a model is immune to Paralyze, it still has to take Horror Tests even though it doesn't suffer the consequence of them. (But could still fail and trigger an ability based on failing a Horror Test.) If a model is immune to Horror, on the other hand, it wouldn't need to take the test in the first place.

Yeah, that's the one I was thinking of - having the Child surprise folks by giving, say, Teddy a free move and attack... that could be quite nice. I would probably only try it if I'm running a non-summoning Dreamer, since that makes giving up Daydreams a bit more viable.

He gives you some long-range scheme marker dropping with his non-Leader buff. (Buff a minion, then run it across the map and have it drop a scheme marker for free at the end of its turn.) It can be a very nice ability, but I often bring a Mannequin in my Collodi crews, which already lets me fling scheme markers pretty much anywhere I want them.

I had just been thinking about trying this combo with some of the other Neverborn Masters - Dreamer in particular has a good Ca action with a relatively easy TN. I think the once per turn on Just Like You will keep it from being overpowered, but I can defininitely imagine it being very effective when the opponent doesn't see it coming.

Pretty sure it is number 3: You replace each corpse marker in range with one zombie. Taelor's ability specifies that if multiple enemies are summoned at the same itme, she may only charge one of them.