Kadeton

You might be overthinking this. The death is the causal event for resolution of both abilities, but it's instantaneous. Each ability will resolve if, and only if, its requirements were met at the instant of death. In the initial question, when the Tot dies, both abilities go off. The Young Nephilim would have to resolve Brood's effect before resolving Thirst For Blood (due to General Timing, since the Tot is the Defender and the Young Nephilim can't be the Acting Model) but it makes no difference if the Young Nephilim moves further than 3" from the Tot - the conditions for both abilities were met, so both will resolve. In your follow-up quoted above, if the Nephilim wasn't within 3" of the Tot at the instant of its death, then Thirst For Blood would not meet the conditions necessary for it to happen. It doesn't matter whether the Nephilim moves within 3" as a result of Brood, as the instant of death has already passed. I'm not sure what I could cite that would help further - all the necessary rules are right there in the Abilities, perhaps with reference to General Timing (p. 46 BRB).

@Broken Clock, @Math Mathonwy: This back-and-forth about who said what and what they might have meant by it isn't adding anything to the conversation, and is heading towards personal attacks and derailment of the thread. I think it's probably best if you both drop it and move on.

This was very much a feature of my aunts' relationship, sadly. They lived together in an era with a heavy social stigma for female homosexuality (when male homosexuality was outright illegal), so they naturally learned to conceal their relationship in public and pass as "good friends". Even though society gradually became more accepting, they were never comfortable with being open about it, as you might expect from decades of habit. Given the fact that people are still having to fight for gay rights and equality, it's hard to blame them. For Tara and Karina, I thought that ambiguity would work well - partly because while Malifaux is anachronistically progressive compared to the early 20th century, I feel like there's enough Victorian ideology still floating about for openly gay relationships to be a bit scandalous (and Tara and Karina seem like no-nonsense people who would try to avoid that kind of drama where possible), and partly because I agree with the general sentiment that character sexuality doesn't need to be the focus of a story. I usually try to leave things subtle and open-ended - as long as there's enough freedom for people who are looking for it to identify with the characters and their relationship, then I don't think it matters if others skim over it and think of them as nothing more than good friends.

For what it's worth, the representations of Tara and Karina in The Dead Man's Ball (from Shifting Loyalties) were based on my aunt and her partner who had been a couple since the 1960s - they were the best example I could think of for two women who had spent (in T & K's case, literally) eternity together.

Haha, you do what you gotta do. Belles have Df and Wp 4, and their Ml and Ca (discounting Lure as their extreme ability) are both 5. That would be a poor to middling spread for a 4ss minion, so for 5ss it's outright weak. 8 (or 7) Wds helps, but in my experience a Belle won't live as long as a Nurse (just for a comparably-priced alternative) against most models. They suffer the same curse as many "durable" Resser models: your opponent knows you'll have loads of Hard to Wound as soon as you declare the Faction, so they bring plenty of high-min-damage attacks which - against Df 4 - almost always connect. I'm not saying Belles are or ever were weak, merely that they coupled unusually high stats to unusually low ones, which I feel doesn't happen as much any more. Justin resisted making those changes for a really long time - there were calls for Belles to be nerfed right from Day One. They were eventually changed because that perception was causing negative play experiences, which is entirely fair, but the errata wasn't prompted by any emergent balance problems such as Resser dominance in the tournament scene. Yeah, this prompted me to do a quick review and it's really all about the sixes. Pick a 7ss or greater model in Wave 4 at random, and it will usually be quicker - often much quicker - to list the offensive and defensive stats that aren't a six than the ones that are.

I feel like the first book included some of the most highly-focused models - Belles and Austringers, for example - that were perceived as "broken" due to their extreme stats in one particular strength... a perception that tended to ignore their mediocre to poor stats in other areas. Rather than there being a "power creep" trend per se (in the sense of model stats expanding through the top end), I'd say the trend has been one toward making all models (and particularly the new Masters) into highly competent generalists. I suspect the average stats for models have crept up a little over time (just compare Reporters or Akaname to the 4ss Minions from Wave 1!), but this is overwhelmed by the tendency toward the upper middle - rather than seeing models with eights and fours on the same card, we're getting more models with sixes and sevens across the board. Wave 3 probably made the smallest splash and had the fewest "must-haves", but it was also a very small wave. It still has its standouts, too - the Carrion, Shadow and Brutal Emissaries are all game-changers for their respective Factions, sleeper hits like Big Jake and Master Queeg are starting to get the attention they deserve, and minions like the Mechanized Porkchop, Wind Gamin and Jorogumo have become staple choices for many crews. I suspect it just felt a lot more scattershot - Wave 1 was all over the place, while Wave 2 was generally very solid, so Wave 3 was a little more of a return to the form of some models being amazing and others being a bit trash. Wave 4 was again very solid... perhaps there's a Star-Trek-esque pattern emerging?

I came here for a picture of Kai's dog. Thread did not disappoint. Welcome to you both.

This is an interesting topic, but not a specific rules question. I'm moving it to the Malifaux General Discussion forum. Carry on!

Some very interesting food for thought in this discussion, thanks! I'll have to give Tara another look in future, with fewer preconceptions.

Ah, I've never found that works for me (assuming you're talking about burying the opponent's models with Tara's abilities). Glimpse the Void's unbury clause makes it way too easy for the opponent to get their model back, if you even manage to bury it in the first place given it's just a simple duel. You know who else can ping enemy models for Slow? Nicodem. When you activate the Nothing Beast first, does it bother you that you're giving up a second Master activation to do so? When I played Tara I often found myself in situations where I really needed to activate another model, and it always pained me to lose that Eternal Moment. Rigid activation order is one of the mechanics that puts her in the category of "too fiddly" for me. The Nothing Beast is a total monster now that he's a Henchman, though. Do you take other models to create the corpses for her, or just rely on the natural flow of battle to generate them? I hadn't thought about taxiing Sebastian into place, that's quite a neat trick and would potentially let him be a lot more active with Bloody Harvest. What else would you take to spread Poison, or are you just relying on the Autopsies? If you put Seb near the enemy crew, are you doing anything special to keep him alive? Can you explain how the Nurse Wk-boost works well with her? I'm guessing either Tara has to stay close enough during her first activation for the Nurse to chase after her and give her the meds for the second activation, or you're activating the Nurse first in which case Tara's only getting one activation and she's no better than any other Master. I can see it being okay, but it doesn't sound that great compared to what you can do with that same Nurse offensively. Yeah, I can see that to some extent. I guess it's mainly a playstyle difference - I find Masters that get described as "versatile" are usually the ones that I would call "reactive", in that they might have the tools to handle a wide range of situations but they don't really have what it takes to create situations the opponent is forced to respond to (Von Schill is another example of this). I much prefer to make my opponent be "versatile" in response to my core game plan than the other way around - that way I define the terms of the engagement. Definitely, the Resser mid-range is exceptionally good. The top end is great if you can summon them, though!

What do you find her strengths are, outside of the beast bomb? Other than taxiing beaters across the board, I struggle to think of any area where she's not outclassed by the other Masters. I'd be interested to hear about alternate styles for her!

Her usual stuff needs a lot of specific suits on decent cards - moderate Crows every time you want to use your Obliteration Symbiote, Masks every time you want to avoid getting shot, high Rams if you want Killjoy to do his thing. It tends to focus on maximising a model or two's combat impact, which (since she doesn't bring any buffs beyond Fast) means you're generally relying on your hand to land those hits. Couple that with her natural tendency to reduce her hand size for the sake of Void creatures and Temporal Shifts, and she suffers a huge amount from hand pressure. Of the others you mentioned, the summoners (Nico, Molly) generally just want a few decent cards for their mid-range summons, and high cards are a nice bonus. They also either have inherent card draw, or synergize well with other models that do (like Philip and the Nanny). The brawlers (McM and Seamus) appreciate a couple of high cards for their big-ticket attacks, but can slog through a turn or two without them just fine, and otherwise don't particularly care about suits very much. Anyway, that's just been my experience. Your mileage may vary.

Wow, all this hate for Seamus! People really undervalue the impact of that -2 Wp. I echo the sentiments of those who were advocating for Corpse Bloat on him - I've used that to great effect in many games. And if the opponent moves pieces to engage you, get a Nurse in there to give him his meds, he'll slap everyone around him silly. He's got so much staying power. My ranking of the Ressers would look more like this: Amelia Bathory (or Nicodem). In my opinion, the strongest Master in the game. Total flexibility, massive card draw, huge AP efficiency. Nobody else comes close. Reva. Incredible damage and solid positioning, but struggles to meaningfully support her crew at times. Dr Dufresne (or McMourning). The most straightforward fun Master, with many playstyle options to suit your mood. Molly. A solid summoner and support, great fun to play, just unable to compete with Nicodem in any sense. Kirai. Much the same as Molly, but flimsier, less flexible and less fun. Her only advantage comes from Ikiryo, who is great, but isn't enough to push her higher on my list. Seamus. Has some very nice interactions that are well worth exploring, but is generally outclassed by Reva in a competitive sense. Good for fun games. Yan Lo. Like Seamus, there's a lot of cool stuff he can do, but others can do similar things more easily and/or more effectively. Tara. She's got some interesting things she can do, but is overall too fiddly and card-dependent compared to the others. That said, there's not that much in it. All the Ressers are solid, and the perceived power levels are mainly determined by playstyle preference rather than measurable power differentials. ... except for Nicodem (Amelia!), who is legitimately in an S-tier all his (her) own.

Different applications of the same Condition can have different durations, such as presented in the example for Q.37 of the FAQ. (Not extrapolating from there per se, but it does clarify a distinction between Conditions and the applications of those Conditions, which include a duration for which the Condition applies.) In this case, every model is gaining the same Condition (Defensive +1). Collodi's Defensive Condition ends at the start of his next Activation, because that's what is specified in its application from Defensive Stance. However, the Follow My Lead Ability doesn't specify an end point for the Conditions it applies. Conditions with unspecified durations always end at the end of the Turn.

I'd suggest trying the opposite, actually - ram your crew down the opponent's throat as fast as possible. If that's your strategy going in, then the Belles are actually helping you from a certain point of view. In Guild vs Ressers, generally speaking, the Guild dominate the fight at the start since they hit harder point-for-point. Over time, the Ressers gain the upper hand through summoning, so the best counter to that is to beat them down faster than they can recover, especially by killing their Master. If you chill in your deployment zone you're just giving them the opportunity to pull individual models out and kill them where you can't retaliate, and they love that. Basically, you're right - Guild can't play the low-risk game that Ressers do. Play the high-risk game instead! (Also, it's never a bad idea to stone on defence if the attacker is likely to get a straight damage flip. I'd say you've learned that lesson now. )

The simple answer, in that case, is to play Sonnia and take Counterspell Aura. If all you're looking to do is prevent Belles from Luring Francisco, that's an easy and 100% effective route. After a few games, your Belle-using opponents will probably cool it a bit on that particular tactic. As an alternative, Perdita's Aura Ancestral will put Francisco's Wp at 8, which makes him much more resistant to Lure. A deeper examination might involve asking how you're controlling the activation order (or not). Are you activating Francisco earlier than is necessary? Dragging an un-Activated model across the board with Lure only to have them walk back to safety again (or charge and kill the thing you were planning to hit them with) is usually not a good plan. You also have the option of upgrades like Curfew to reduce the amount of Luring that can happen in a turn. Another angle is to ask: What is killing Francisco? He's a solid Henchman with Hard to Kill (usually) and a on incoming Ml attacks - he requires a concerted effort to put down. If your opponent is putting that kind of power into him, how much do they have available for the other tasks necessary for scoring points? Is there more you could be doing to keep Francisco alive? (Taking Defensive Stance, for example.)

Oh man, you really got me with this. I was freaking out like "How did I MISS THAT?" because I've never had a situation (across perhaps 40 games with McMourning) where using a Nurse to boost his damage was worth the crippling tradeoff of denying all non-Ml actions, and I've always really wanted that interaction to work. Then the frantic re-checking of the cards, the disappointment of rediscovering why it doesn't work, the vague satisfaction that at least I hadn't overlooked a game-changing rule... it's been a real emotional rollercoaster over here.

In my time with McMourning, I found he really didn't need much beyond Moonlighting and Plastic Surgery. His built-in (0) actions are a-may-zing so I wouldn't recommend upgrades that add more of them, like Maniacal Laugh and Corpse Bloat. Spare Parts is definitely something you should try out, but I've had a fair few games where I never got to summon anything because McMourning was always better off doing other things. He's such a pro-active Master, and each of his AP is really useful - hence I prefer Moonlighting for summoning, since it all happens without you having to stop doing what you normally want to do. I wouldn't recommend Corpse Bloat on Sebastian, as he's got a huge target on his head and it's already hard enough to keep him alive without deliberately injuring him as well. You could use it for Unforgiving Stench to give him an action that might be situationally worth doing (nice combo potential with the Emissary), but it's an expensive upgrade just for that. Hounds are fine, and McMourning can make any nearby model into a passable scheme runner anyway. However, when hiring, I would thoroughly recommend Guild Autopsies over Canines - their Poison synergies are awesome for McMourning. (You should also have the Autopsies on hand if you're taking Spare Parts, they're a decent summon if you've got nothing better to do!) The obvious model you're missing, to my mind, is a Performer. They have immense Poison synergy (more dangerous than Expunge!), they're great for schemes, and their manipulation and debuffing is fantastic. Good luck with the good Doctor! I'm missing Ressers already. :/

Pinned to help out players looking for Zipp advice. Carry on!

Yes, the model can Leap away and no disengaging strike takes place. The only type of movement that causes a disengaging strike is a Walk action (see p.44 of the BRB).

This is covered by the "Duel Stat Types" rule in the breakout box on p.31 of the BRB, for reference.

Because essentially, our whole discussion here boils down to the fact that you call Actions that can be used once per Turn and Actions that cannot target the same model more than once per Turn "very similar", and I call them "completely different". I don't think there's much further discussion to be had - we can agree to disagree?

"Once Per Turn Actions" is a game rule, just like the "Placing Scheme Markers" and "Immunity" rules in callout boxes on the same page. It's not an explanation.

Because the rule on p.39 is this: "Some Actions note that they can only be taken "once per Turn." This only refers to the individual model. Although the model may only take the Action once per Turn, other models may still take the Action." Prompt does not note that the Action can only be taken once per Turn. This rule, therefore, does not apply to Prompt. Since there is no other rule exemption for Actions that cannot target a model more than once per Turn, why would they be allowed to target the same model more than once per Turn under any circumstances?

Is it tactically useful very often? Perdita's player doesn't get to control the action that Howard takes, Howard's player does. All you're really doing is forcing him to take his extra action at a potentially inconvenient time. But yes, I would say that matches the spirit of the rule - Howard can only ever be Prompted once per Turn. If you can turn that into a tactical advantage, that's good play. Indeed. Prompt doesn't say that, and it can be taken as many times per Turn as the caster has AP. Instead, it says "A model may only be targeted by this Action once per Turn," which is a different situation - FAQs should never be extrapolated to cover rules other than those intended. I think you could well be proven correct in the future, but right now in the absence of an FAQ I would take the rule at face value: a model may only be targeted by Prompt once per Turn.