JarnabyBones

The fact that they don't steamroll everything is my main point that keeps me from thinking they are unbalanced. And to be fair we have one of the best players in the country, who also happens to play Gremlins, in my meta and coming to our tourneys, so perhaps my perspective is skewed. I agree piglets are best dealt with from range, but what decent ranged options do we have in Neverborn? My best masters right now are Lilith, Titania, and Zoraida. Dreamer is in practice. I have access to Pandora and Lynch but little experience yet.

So I've been playing Malifaux for around a year (well, playing again, its a long and uninteresting story). I play exclusively Neverborn. I'm not a fantastic player, but I'm not a terrible player either. I have no issues playing against any faction, except Gremlins. I really hate people who make casual unbalanced accusations as most of the time its a lack of imagination. In this case though I really struggle to see a pathway to victory when my opponent is a skilled Gremlin player. When I first started playing I heard some people talk about how OP gremlins were, but I also heard others say they were terrible so I assumed a balance there. But after going against them enough times I, frustratingly, am starting to agree that there are balance issues. Being able to buy up to 6 stuffed piglets for 2ss each is ridiculous. Even if ALL they did was given an activation that would be good. But they can deny schemes like Convict just by existing. If you can reliably kill them from range they will run up and tarpit you, and the fact that their explosion on dying is OPTIONAL is even more ridiculous, since you can't even force them to explode by killing them next to their own models. Add in a Pigapult, which is ludicrously low cost for what it does, and you now have 7 activations for 20ss which can deal MINIMUM 3 attacks from 24" away without requiring LoS which have a decent likelihood of blasting. Rooster Riders are ridiculous for 6ss cost models. Combined with the presence of Dumb Luck and Bayou Two Card on most of the faction I don't see what they don't do better than everyone else. High number of activations, essentially 3 ap for their entire faction in the form of reckless, insane damage output for what in my opinion is minimal cost, initiative control, hand control, high speed. So I'm not trying to be a whiner. I just am at my wit's end. I've asked experience players I know, I've asked forums on Facebook, I've asked my local henchmen. How do you beat Gremlins? I've been told to take WP attack models, but on a whole I actually don't find their WP THAT low. I've been told to isolate and kill off key models, but I'm completely unsure as to how to even get close. Manipulative, Mimic's Blessing, and Perfect Camouflage are all basically useless since nothing important on the Gremlins' side will happen before I'm completely finished activating. The only things I've come up with so far are things like Tuco, which can alpha strike the pigapult with Rets Eye from the shadows and hopefully take out a few other models with blasts, but if you lose the deployment flip then that strategy goes out the window, and even if you succeed Tuco for the Pigapult isn't an even trade. Zoraida seems to be a really good master against them. Obey's can make Stuffed Pigs go off, I think, and turn Rooster Riders back on their own with 1ap charges. Collodi could do that too I suppose and could bring Vasalisa along for more straight Obeys. So.... what do you guys have? Considering posting this in the Gremlin forums too. I'm not saying the game is broken, or even that Gremlins are definitely unbalanced, but curious how others feel on the subject and to know if anyone has figured out a way around these issues. I'm very interested in figuring out a way through this problem rather than saying its a balance issue, I'm just becoming exasperated trying to see the balance and failing.

In my opinion the wording that you think is hinting at having more than one out is actually stopping broken interactions if both you and an opponent have a Bandersnatch. There is no way to my knowledge to have multiple functional Shadow Lairs out. In the corner case example where a Bandersnatch dies while still having its upgrade attached (which should be very rare, since if the upgrade is one someone that means he's buried in Shadow where not much can hit him), the lair will tick down for damage until it falls off. Even if you summon a new Bandersnatch it cannot interact in any way with the previous lair. They seemed to have closed most of the loop holes that would let someone break this model. You can't have more than one, the lair is only on the unit while it is buried, and the Bandersnatch can only draw LoS and range from a model with the upgrade while buried so if its buried by a marshall or Aionus then no attacking.

Doesn't 1000 Faces specify that it can't be on your crews Master?

So if you flip and fail, take damage, and then get pushed .5" do you still take another test? And if so will you take damage again?

1000 Faces only goes off when a model is killed or sacrifice. Eternal Fiend isn't really an activated ability it just flat out changes how the model works, it's impossible to kill him, therefore it's impossible for Avenge Our Brethren to go off.

You'd still make the wk14 duels but wouldn't take any damage after the first failure, correct?

I suppose until an official ruling I'll just make sure I agree pre-game with an opponent as to how to handle it. I appreciate the ruling in the meantime, Angst Bunny!

Well great... now theres a 3rd option... editing the post above

Will o' the Wisp can put a lure condition on a target model that says "When this model takes a walk action it must walk towards the model that applied this condition" My question is, if I use this on a voodoo doll then the doll and the hemmed target both get the condition; but does the hemmed target walk towards the Wisp or the Doll? Who counts as having applied the condition? ive gotten 2 (3 after comments below) primary and conflicting answers to this question: 1. The Wisp counts as having applied both instances of the condition as the hemmed condition simply adds an addition target. Both targets must walk towards the wisp. 2. The Wisp counts only for applying to the voodoo doll. The doll counts as applying to the hemmed target. The Doll must walk towards the wisp, the hemmed target must walk towards the doll. 3. The Hem Condition is responsible for putting on the Wisp Lure so the hemmed target doesn't have to walk towards anything since no "model" applied the condition. Can anyone provide a definitive answer?

Wp5 stat line, each has a 0 action Challenge that pushes an enemy towards them and targets WP. All of the Knights and Aeslin have "Curse of Autumn" on front of card, which forces a WP13 duel to any enemy who begins engaged with them and gives slow on a fail.

Some NB Masters can operate with just about anyone and still do well (Looking at you, Lilith), while others really want their subtype around to work well (collodi, Dreamer, etc.) Titania is definitely the latter. She doesn't need only fae around, but she needs enough to get going, personally I think she hits this point around 2. I think her whole crew box actually runs pretty well by itself. The Knights are all identical on the front of the card, and similar but distinct on the back. All have a 0 to discard a card and push into base contact with a scheme marker up to 4" away. Each has a 0 action Challenge which pushes an enemy towards them, each with a different affect after resolution. All are Ml6. All have triggers to consume schemes near target to get a +flip on damage. Thorn has a 3" whip and a trigger to card draw if enemy is next to a scheme. Claw has a spear which can be gun8" or slash2" (dreamer and Lucius love this guy). Claw and Fang both have a trigger to drop a scheme marker on a melee attack. What you want to supplement the box with depends on how you want to run it. Dopple is good because of ability to drop schemes, however most of the fae damage tracks are mediocre and get better on triggers which dopple can't take advantage of. Sorrows make a WP attack build particularly brutal.

All of the Fae minions are Ml6, which Lucius has been lacking greatly in NB for the most part. Also one of the knights has a Ml6 attack with Rg8 or Slash2, meaning both Lucius and Dreamer have a new minion that they can prompt ranged attacks off of.

Wow, I may have to try this method out. In my opinion the one thing that makes the Dreamer such a fantastic master is the ability to just plop down your whole army surrounding your foe. It can be truly devastating even without setting up an Alp bomb. Coppelius is my new best friend, a true beast of a minion and worth every SS you pay for him. Though trying to figure out "Unexplained Connection" is driving me INSANE. I have yet to try Alps, but will make a point to in my next game with the Dreamer.

I was able to put mine together with glue and get him to stay, but also had plenty of holes and gaps which the green stuff fixed up. My biggest problem was that his legs were angling his torso down way too much, so that he looked hunched over. He looked less like a scary demigod and more like something that just lost a contact he was trying to find. Careful application of pliers fixed this right up. I was even able to make it look like he was just about to take a step forward. This is off topic though. As for stitched togethers, I too will not be taking too many, as one of my regular opponents called them "broken" since i used Gamble Your Life on Seamus twice, then did it two more times on the reactivate, then buried the stiched before the resolve effects step and brought them back to do it again next turn. My opponent was not amused...

Had my first two games with the Dreamer today, and liked how he played. Ran into a few rules debates when using the Stitched. Question 1: Is the damage flip provided by Gamble your Life affected by the flip totals or Hard to Wound (ie, does beating by 5 affect the flip, etc.) Also, I may be missing something, but being able to use Gamble your Life four times in a turn, then bury him and bring him back next turn and do it again... seems delightful but slightly overpowered. Question 2: If you kill yourself with Gamble your Life "during" the Stitched's turn, does it still reactivate, since "Does Not Die!" goes off during the activation, not after. Question 3: Is it actually a valid tactic to bury the model before the end of the turn so they dont die, then bring them back the next turn. And if this case, will they die at the end of this turn (I say yes.) Have a decent grasp on this guy, just need some clarification.

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I don't know, I just think that Killjoy in a Neverborn army could be really really effective. With Lilith you have an easily sacrificed model handy with tots, and the ability to Transposition Killjoy into the fray. Or to run a Tot out, activate Lilith, companion another Tot, switch them with Transposition, run the second Tot out even further and then sacrifice. With Pandora hes just a much more intimidating addition to the team, he'll draw more fire and scatter the enemy better, because he's also more durable than most things in Pandoras list. With Zoraida he's a MNeph who is more durable, and I'd be happy giving Killjoy the masks for Onslaught if Big Z is controlling him to do it ;-). Not only that he's very effective at magnetizing the enemy force. Things either stick to him or run from him, and Silurids are great for drive by slicing up scattered remnants. And if you are worried about him teamkilling you can always Hex that bit away. Maybe it's just me wishing I saw something that's not there, but I think he could be great, just gotta get points to work out well.

Alright, you have me interested thaehl, now tell me why. Aldyhide, like the list, and maybe its just me, but I've found the Baby Kade just can't take a hit without other sorrows and woes around. His defenses are awesome, though. Will definitely consider. Wrabbit, thanks for your list, might actually go with that one, assuming my doppelganger comes in in time, Can see it synergizing very well.

Hey everyone, I know that Rath just posted a very similar listing, but mine is a little different on a few things. 1.) New to Zoraida, played her box against Nicodem and gave him a major smack down. 2.) It's a 35ss list instead of 25, which in my mind at least is a pretty drastic difference. 3.) Don't have same scheme restrictions. If I can't get a list I'm comfortable with for Big Z I'll probably switch to Pandy, though I think only one or two others at the tournament will have even seen Zoraida played before, so I'd really like to showcase her to everyone AND win the tourny. Need good advice on a 35ss list that can take on any opponent and tips on how to use it. Thanks!

Alright Rath, this is how I know you and I can get along. I was out with friends and was racing back because I had the idea to use the voodoo doll, and you beat me to it! I agree that a quick raven activation is a good idea, but lets think about alternatives. His first activation normally doesn't have much team killing, and he is NOT immune to influence, so you could even obey him on her next activation and have him charge, using repulse first if he needs a few more inches. If you don't wanna sacrifice a Voodoo doll then a silurid could make a great sacrifice, with the ability to get close very quickly. Granted its a bit expensive for a sacrifice, and a tot could do the same thing. Silurids are great for hunting down or flanking the people who are fleeing Killjoy. Arguably he could just be a Mature Nephilim, and save a bunch of trouble. My answer to that is that Killjoy has a LOT more survivability with the ability to heal after killing, and to draw enemies just out of his reach in with Chain Hook. The Onslaught trigger is outstanding, he's slow to die, hard to wound, you can't argue that in a fight he's just plain better than a Mature Neph. He costs more and is a pain to get out, which is why I put him on level instead of above. Possible 35ss list: Zoraida Voodoo Doll (of course) 3 Silurids 15ss Killjoy 12ss 2Terror-tot 6ss 2ss left over for cache of 7 Possible 35ss list: Zoraida Voodoo Doll (of course) 3 Silurids 15ss Killjoy 12ss 2Terror-tot 6ss Bayou Gremlin 2ss Possible 35ss list: Zoraida Voodoo Doll (of course) 4 Silurids 20ss Killjoy 12ss 1Terror-tot 3ss

Realized that in spite of mutual hatred Neverborn can hire Killjoy. Which Neverborn masters would be best using him? Any good tricks with him for Neverborn or am I just hoping that he could be useful with them? Eager to hear some ideas.

This is amazing, and that Teddy frightens the crap out of me. Am looking forward to seeing how you pull off a pink Mature Nephilim.

Oh, and yes, leaving her sorrows behind to amp up damage is a really dirty, nasty tactic. I love it!

Well, the change to Link is a good one in my opinion, though now she needs some serious assistance getting out of the gate. Maybe a Mature Nephilim with Carry?